On 08 Jan 2013, at 15:59, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Whoever invented the word "God" invented atheism.
Not necessarily. The modern notion of God comes with the platonist,
and was almost a synonym with "truth". There was an implicit, but
reasonable assumption, that humans search
On 08 Jan 2013, at 17:50, Richard Ruquist wrote:
For the record,
Roger's post illuminates an optimal division between the mind:
the EM, and quantum waves and, fields;
and the body: mainly electrons and photons.
We all seem to agree that the mind is arithmetic.
Well, with comp, the mind ari
Hi Bruno Marchal
I understand your point, which is correct as long as there
is a body in the field.
But consider the quantum wavicle of a photon. It is just a quantum wave before
it hits a photographic plate, at which point it becomes a distinct photon.
The quantum form of the photon before i
On 08 Jan 2013, at 18:14, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
>GOD means the reality in which you believe.
Friends, are you tired of your old job, it's time to change your
occupation and make big bucks, amaze your friends, be a hit at
parties and beco
On 08 Jan 2013, at 18:53, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/8/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 07 Jan 2013, at 19:53, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 Roger Clough wrote:
> Theism, like atheism, is unprovable.
Why is that? You're saying that even though God is omnipotent He
is incapable
On 08 Jan 2013, at 20:42, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/8/2013 10:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 07 Jan 2013, at 23:57, meekerdb wrote:
In Bruno's theory both mind and matter are products of
computation. I think it will turn out, as you say, that they are
mutually necessary.
At *our level* I
On 08 Jan 2013, at 21:19, Richard Ruquist wrote:
At the most basic level reality is a discrete digital particle
arithmetic
with no need for further calculations in a block universe.
I don't think so. particles are hgher level first person emergent
phenomenon, from the symmetries brought b
Hi Bruno Marchal
There is nothing physical besides the probe before the probe
interacts with the quantum wave field. The quantum wave field
is simply a probability field (with prob <1) all over the universe.
Anything with prob<1 doesn't physically exist, because the (r,t) is not
yet fixe
On 08 Jan 2013, at 21:25, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Le me add some meat here
We can not reduce the concept of God to a boring principle that we
need to put somewhere. Like a ugly furniture inherited from the
grand-parents which for its sentimental value we have to keep and
locate somewher
Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
"Tentative meaning" would be more suitable than the word "opinion."
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
Rece
On 09 Jan 2013, at 01:01, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/8/2013 12:25 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Le me add some meat here
Nah. It's just your wishful thinking that everybody has to believe
in God.
All correct and self-introspective machine will believe in (some)
"God". Keep in mind that athei
After having discussed the collapse of a
quantum field form of wavicle at a measurement
probe, I wonder if ideas possibly enter consciousness
in an analogous manner. Could they condense out of consciousness
analogous to the collapse of a wavicle at a probe ?.
Thus would be an intuitive idea.
Hi meekerdb
Very good; that is possibly a new version of Idealism.
Also, Sheldrake and many other philosophers (eg Plato)
believe that vision is a two-stage process. First the
light from the object enters into our eyes, then
we "project" the image back out into the world to
where we "see" th
Hi meekerdb
Sheldrake's morphisms would be what John Clark or bruno theorized as God.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Hi Richard Ruquist
That could be so. But Wittgenstein and others believed
that the meaning of a word is established through usage.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
Hi,
let us start with the proposed QS experiment by Tegmark, a QS machine with
a 99/100 chance of a *perfect* kill (so let's put aside HP failure or
whatever so to have either the experimenter is killed with the given
probabilities or it is not, no in between, so in 1/100 he is not killed and
perf
Penrose's concept of consciousness as quantum wave collapse
would seem, at least this morning, to be similar or analogous
to my suggestion that ideas are fixed forms of consciousness created
by some type of collapse of quntum wave collapse such as
photons are formed by the collapse of a wavicle
Hi Craig,
>
> Cool. I actually would have agreed with you and a lot of people here at
> different times in my life. It's only been lately in the last five years or
> so that I have put together this other way of understanding everything. It
> gets lost in the debating, because I feel like I have
Hi Bruno Marchal
You say, "Well, with comp, the mind arise from arithmetic."
Wouldn't a Platonist say instead that arithmetic arises from mind ?
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
- Receiving the followin
Hi Bruno Marchal
Am I wrong ? I don't think that "complexity" and Platonism
(top-down being) suit each other. Complexity seems to arise from bottom-up
being as sets of miracles that happen when the Aristotelian
intellect gets stuck.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 6:10 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> Hi,
>
> let us start with the proposed QS experiment by Tegmark, a QS machine with a
> 99/100 chance of a *perfect* kill (so let's put aside HP failure or whatever
> so to have either the experimenter is killed with the given probabilities o
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 08 Jan 2013, at 15:59, Roger Clough wrote:
>
>> Hi Bruno Marchal
>>
>> Whoever invented the word "God" invented atheism.
>
>
> Not necessarily. The modern notion of God comes with the platonist, and was
> almost a synonym with "truth". Th
Bruno,
Another matter is that since the michaelson-morley experiment,
space itself does not exist (is nonphysical). There is no aether.
Electromagnetic waves propagate through nothing at all,
suggesting to me, at least, that they, and their fields, are
nonphysical.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@ve
According to Plato, all love, all truth, and all beauty comes from the One
(ie God). That being the case, when I experience love, truth or beauty, I
sense God's presence.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
-
Where does hate, falsehood and ugliness come from?
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Roger Clough wrote:
>
>
> According to Plato, all love, all truth, and all beauty comes from the One
> (ie God). That being the case, when I experience love, truth or beauty, I
> sense God's presence.
>
>
> [Roge
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:26 AM, socra...@bezeqint.net
wrote:
> In beginning was Word.
> And the Word was written by the formula: T=0K.
soc,
You may be ripe to believe in string consciousness
for its ontological basis is a cubic lattice
of Calabi-Yau compact manifolds
at absolute zero, T=0K,
fro
Hi chris kramer
Evidence ? God is like the cat burglar and never leaves traces.
Generally, however, since God usually works through people (or angels),
as once in a while in the Bible a stranger appears,
or you might find a stranger (increased taxes) entering your
life (usually to do evil),
Hi Telmo Menezes
In the Christian tradition, Satan.
In the Platonic tradition (which Bruno knows
much better than I do), I think the Demiurge.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
- Receiving the followi
On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:18:37 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote:
>
>
> Hi Craig,
>
>
>>
>> Cool. I actually would have agreed with you and a lot of people here at
>> different times in my life. It's only been lately in the last five years or
>> so that I have put together this other way o
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:07, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi meekerdb
Sheldrake's morphisms would be what John Clark or bruno theorized as
God.
I don't think so. I have never understood what Sheldrake's morphism
are, but they seem physical, from what I can understand.
God is not physical, and by def
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:17, Roger Clough wrote:
Penrose's concept of consciousness as quantum wave collapse
would seem, at least this morning, to be similar or analogous
to my suggestion that ideas are fixed forms of consciousness created
by some type of collapse of quntum wave collapse such as
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:20, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
You say, "Well, with comp, the mind arise from arithmetic."
Wouldn't a Platonist say instead that arithmetic arises from mind ?
Some Platonist have defended idealism, but the problem then is that we
can no more an explanation
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:27, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Am I wrong ? I don't think that "complexity" and Platonism
(top-down being) suit each other. Complexity seems to arise from
bottom-up
being as sets of miracles that happen when the Aristotelian
intellect gets stuck.
Complexity
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:35, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 08 Jan 2013, at 15:59, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Whoever invented the word "God" invented atheism.
Not necessarily. The modern notion of God comes with the platonist,
On 09 Jan 2013, at 13:04, Roger Clough wrote:
Bruno,
Another matter is that since the michaelson-morley experiment,
space itself does not exist (is nonphysical).
Space-time remains physical, here.
There is no aether.
Electromagnetic waves propagate through nothing at all,
suggesting to me
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:35, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08 Jan 2013, at 15:59, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>
Hi Bruno Marchal
Whoever invented the word "God" invent
On 09 Jan 2013, at 13:18, Roger Clough wrote:
According to Plato, all love, all truth, and all beauty comes from
the One
(ie God). That being the case, when I experience love, truth or
beauty, I
sense God's presence.
I can be OK with this, but this will not convince an atheist, who wil
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 09 Jan 2013, at 13:04, Roger Clough wrote:
>
>> Bruno,
>>
>> Another matter is that since the michaelson-morley experiment,
>> space itself does not exist (is nonphysical).
>
>
> Space-time remains physical, here.
>
>
>> There is no aeth
On 09 Jan 2013, at 13:26, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Where does hate, falsehood and ugliness come from?
I am not quite sure, but it comes probably from the consistency of
inconsistency (that is: Gödel's second incompleteness theorem).
Actually it comes from the fact that Bf (inconsistency) give
On 09 Jan 2013, at 14:29, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
In the Christian tradition, Satan.
In the Platonic tradition (which Bruno knows
much better than I do), I think the Demiurge.
Platonists are not so good on the bad, and the bad is really a complex
problem. I suggest an answer
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 09 Jan 2013, at 13:26, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
> Where does hate, falsehood and ugliness come from?
>
>
> I am not quite sure, but it comes probably from the consistency of
> inconsistency (that is: Gödel's second incompleteness theorem).
Dear Bruno,
you know we agree (mostly), you wrote lately that you are "more" agnostic
than myself - what I doubt since your "religion" includes numbers and
math(logic) and mine not.
What I take for "granted" is our limited capability to learn them all about
the *infinite complexity* of which we fo
On 09 Jan 2013, at 16:17, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:35, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 08 Jan 2013, at 15:59, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Whoever inven
On 09 Jan 2013, at 17:03, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 09 Jan 2013, at 13:26, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Where does hate, falsehood and ugliness come from?
I am not quite sure, but it comes probably from the consistency of
inconsistency (t
Dear John,
On 09 Jan 2013, at 17:30, John Mikes wrote:
you know we agree (mostly), you wrote lately that you are "more"
agnostic than myself - what I doubt since your "religion" includes
numbers and math(logic) and mine not.
My "religion" (I prefer to say: my favorite working hypothesis)
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> On 09 Jan 2013, at 16:17, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:35, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>>>
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
let us start with the proposed QS experiment by Tegmark,
I publish this before. It made some physicists rather nervous against
me, so that I find worthy to vindicate it. I propose the comp suicide
and immortality even well before.
OK,
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
> I sense God's presence.
>
That's nice, but how do you know (and more important how do we know) if you
are sensing a omnipotent being who created the universe or if you are
sensing a bad potato that you ate yesterday?
I've never had a mystica
2013/1/9 Bruno Marchal
>
> On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
> Hi,
>>
>> let us start with the proposed QS experiment by Tegmark,
>>
>
> I publish this before. It made some physicists rather nervous against me,
> so that I find worthy to vindicate it. I propose the comp suicide
On 1/9/2013 2:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 09 Jan 2013, at 01:01, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/8/2013 12:25 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Le me add some meat here
Nah. It's just your wishful thinking that everybody has to believe in God.
All correct and self-introspective machine will believe i
On 1/9/2013 3:10 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
let us start with the proposed QS experiment by Tegmark, a QS machine with a 99/100
chance of a *perfect* kill (so let's put aside HP failure or whatever so to have either
the experimenter is killed with the given probabilities or it is not, no i
2013/1/9 meekerdb
> On 1/9/2013 3:10 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> let us start with the proposed QS experiment by Tegmark, a QS machine
>> with a 99/100 chance of a *perfect* kill (so let's put aside HP failure or
>> whatever so to have either the experimenter is killed with the give
On 9 January 2013 18:17, Bruno Marchal wrote:
* David Nyman's heuristic makes me think that they could be zombie, but I
> am not sure this can work with comp.*
Don't forget that we are speaking only of a heuristic, or guide for
thought. The idea is to evaluate what consequences might follow, fo
On 1/9/2013 7:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:35, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 08 Jan 2013, at 15:59, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Whoever invented the word "God" invented atheism.
Not necessarily. The modern
On 1/9/2013 7:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 09 Jan 2013, at 13:18, Roger Clough wrote:
According to Plato, all love, all truth, and all beauty comes from the One
(ie God). That being the case, when I experience love, truth or beauty, I
sense God's presence.
I can be OK with this, but this
On 1/9/2013 11:52 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2013/1/9 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>
On 1/9/2013 3:10 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Hi,
let us start with the proposed QS experiment by Tegmark, a QS machine
with a
99/100 chance of a *perfect* kill (so let's p
On 1/9/2013 2:14 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
We start each with 100$ that we use to make the first bet, the column contains the $ we
have in our pocket after the bet depending on the result.
I don't know what "Me" and "Brent" mean in this? betting on survival or death?
bet n° Experimenter su
Not in the dictionary. try again.
On 09/01/2013, at 11:21 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
> paroxistic
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>
> Agreed, and I hope that truth is true .
> Richard
>
Truth is true !!!
/ Richard /
Very good proof. . .
. . . . and . . ‘. . by Beauty that beautiful things are
beautiful . . .
by largeness that large things are large and larger things larger,
and by smallness that smaller things ate smalle
>
> > Can we say that physical particles are often localised volumes
> > that are full of "infinities of discrete number relations"
>
> Sounds to much physicalist for me (or comp).
-->
Particles in the vacuum ( T=0K ) have no volumes
( according to the laws of thermodynamics )
therefore w
2013/1/10 meekerdb
> On 1/9/2013 2:14 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
> We start each with 100$ that we use to make the first bet, the column
> contains the $ we have in our pocket after the bet depending on the result.
>
>
> I don't know what "Me" and "Brent" mean in this? betting on survival or
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