On 01 May 2013, at 19:47, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Darwin knew for a fact that he was conscious.
Really?
Yes really.
References please.
No.
I was asking because the term consciousness seems more recent to me,
and I am not sure it
On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 30 Apr 2013, at 20:58, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:31:44 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 24 Apr 2013, at 15:40, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On
On 01 May 2013, at 21:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:55:05 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Apr 2013, at 17:38, Roger Clough wrote:
How can matter (the universe) be a thought in the mind of a cosmic
intelligence ?
How can matter be a thought ? That is
On 01 May 2013, at 22:09, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno asked why I have problems how to figure out 'numbers'.
In his texts (as I remember and I have no quotes at hand) the
world can be construed from a large enough amount of numbers in
simple arithmetical ways (addition-subtraction). Also:
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark:
At this point I'm not even talking about Science but logic and a distaste
for cheerfully and strongly believing in 2 contradictory things.
I believe that
On Wed, May 1, 2013, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote:
Artificial neural networks have been trained to fly planes, invest in the
stock market, converts speech to text, recognise handwriting and so on and
so on.
True.
For most of these cases, nobody understands how the network
On Wed, May 1, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
It maybe that achieving intelligence via the evolutionary paths
available to animals on Earth did entail consciousness.
MAYBE?! There is quite simply NO way Evolution could have produced
consciousness (and you and I know with
Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., if/else)
statement (in some program) is conscious?
I think such statements may form the atoms of consciousness, as they
represent the point at which a program's behavior diverges based on
the inspection of some information.
Conditional
Brent,
thanks for your remarks - I usually value them - now I think you went a bit
overboard.
*...Radical agnosticism, like solipism, is impossible to act on...*
*
*
I presume you checked all knowable and not knowable cases to decide the
'impossibility'. How 'radical'? more than you find
On 02 May 2013, at 15:11, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark:
At this point I'm not even talking about Science but logic and a
distaste
for cheerfully and strongly
On Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:39:43 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 30 Apr 2013, at 20:58, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:31:44 AM UTC-4, Bruno
On 02 May 2013, at 16:47, Jason Resch wrote:
Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., if/else)
statement (in some program) is conscious?
I think such statements may form the atoms of consciousness, as they
represent the point at which a program's behavior diverges based on
the
On 02 May 2013, at 17:35, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:39:43 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 30 Apr 2013, at 20:58, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On
Bruno asked:* are you OK with this?* - NO, I am not OK:
as I follow, 0 is NOT a number, it does not change a number.
But how do you * A D D * a number to another one if it is not identified
as a quantity? Can you add an electric train to the taste of a lolly-pop?
You speak about 'axioms' (- in
Nice. It could be heavier on support on the points, but not bad for a
superficial pop-sci treatment.
My comments:
It’s a mistake to think of this debate in terms of having insufficient
understanding or technology to simulate consciousness. The point is that we
already have sufficient
On Thursday, May 2, 2013 11:54:34 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 02 May 2013, at 17:35, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:39:43 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 01 May 2013, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC-4, Bruno
The arguments are not so much arguments, but a collection of dubious
assumptions.
His first argument is that the brain is not computable, which requires
assuming the brain does not operate according to known physics, as all
known physics is computable.
The second and third objections are that we
On 5/2/2013 7:02 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2013, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com
mailto:te...@telmomenezes.com wrote:
Artificial neural networks have been trained to fly planes, invest in the
stock
market, converts speech to text, recognise handwriting and so on and
On Thursday, May 2, 2013 3:08:17 PM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
The arguments are not so much arguments, but a collection of dubious
assumptions.
His first argument is that the brain is not computable, which requires
assuming the brain does not operate according to known physics, as all
known
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote:
http://io9.com/you-ll-probably-never-upload-your-mind-into-a-computer-474941498
1) Brain functions are not computable because* *most of its important
features are the result of unpredictable, nonlinear interactions
On 5/2/2013 7:29 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2013 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
It maybe that achieving intelligence via the evolutionary paths
available to
animals on Earth did entail consciousness.
MAYBE?! There is quite simply NO
On 5/2/2013 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., if/else) statement (in some program)
is conscious?
I don't think so. We make if/else choices subconsciously all the time. My introspection
tells me that conscious thought is a kind of narrative story I
On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 4:09:03 PM UTC-4, JohnM wrote:
Bruno asked why I have problems how to figure out *'numbers'*. * *
In his texts (as I remember and I have no quotes at hand) the world can
be construed from a large enough amount of numbers in simple arithmetical
ways
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:09 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 5/2/2013 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., if/else) statement (in
some program) is conscious?
I don't think so. We make if/else choices subconsciously all the time.
My
Brent,
I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean to
equate your consciousness with that of every if/else decision you make, but
rather ask something like, What does the shortest possible program that is
conscious look like?
I have trouble seeing why some short piece
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Stephen Paul King kingstephenp...@gmail.com
wrote:
Brent,
I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean to
equate your consciousness with that of every if/else decision you make, but
rather ask something like, What does the shortest
On 5/2/2013 2:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:09 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 5/2/2013 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
Would anyone here say that a conditional (e.g., if/else) statement
(in some
program) is
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Stephen Paul King
kingstephenp...@gmail.com wrote:
Brent,
I think you may be reading my question in the wrong way. I didn't mean
to equate your consciousness with that of every
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 02 May 2013, at 15:11, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 01 May 2013, at 17:33, Telmo Menezes wrote to John Clark:
At this point I'm not even talking
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:02 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2013, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote:
Artificial neural networks have been trained to fly planes, invest in
the stock market, converts speech to text, recognise handwriting and so on
and so
On 5/2/2013 3:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
I'm simply pointing out that you may be under the influence of
christian morality even though you reject christianity. This is not
surprising, we grew in a western civilisation that was greatly
influenced by christianity. In this case I believe you are
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 5/2/2013 3:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
I'm simply pointing out that you may be under the influence of
christian morality even though you reject christianity. This is not
surprising, we grew in a western civilisation that
think it's more feasible to try to reverse-engineer the
morphogenetic algorithms encoded in the DNA. We would still not
understand the creation, but would have a greater chance of success,
and we would understand how to create the conditions for our creation
to grow. Fully understanding a
On 5/2/2013 4:12 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 5/2/2013 3:32 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
I'm simply pointing out that you may be under the influence of
christian morality even though you reject christianity. This is not
On 5/2/2013 4:39 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:
think it's more feasible to try to reverse-engineer the
morphogenetic algorithms encoded in the DNA. We would still not
understand the creation, but would have a greater chance of success,
and we would understand how to create the conditions for our
Hi Brent,
I agree 99.99% with you here! I only differ in saying that the copy
process is not exact and thus is equivalent to a write.
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 7:53 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 5/2/2013 4:39 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:
think it's more feasible to try to
Hi Brent,
You seem to assume that the read and copy operations are
of something immutable. I submit that there is no 3p invariant at all!
There is only the potential infinity of 'similar' copies.
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Stephen Paul King kingstephenp...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Brent,
On 5/2/2013 6:51 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:
Hi Brent,
You seem to assume that the read and copy operations are of something immutable. I
submit that there is no 3p invariant at all! There is only the potential infinity of
'similar' copies.
No, of course there are mutations. It's
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