Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On 7/11/2024 1:56 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 4:37 PM Brent Meeker wrote: /> A rock, along with many other things, can't pass a first grade arithmetic teseither; but that doesn't show that anything that can't pass a first grade arithmetic test is unintelligent o

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On 7/11/2024 12:53 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:43 PM Jason Resch wrote: /> Turing completeness is not required for consciousness. The human brain (given it's limited and faulty memory) wouldn't even meet the definition of being Turing complete./ Sometimes o

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 6:00 PM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 5:33 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > *> Consider a deterministic intelligent machine having no innate >> philosophical knowledge or philosophical discussions while learning. Also, >> the machine does not contain informational mo

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On 7/11/2024 12:49 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:39 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > /My point was that consciousness doesn't require Turing completeness/. Maybe, you and I will never knowfor sure, but intelligence certainly does require Touring Completeness. I know because

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 5:33 PM Jason Resch wrote: *> Consider a deterministic intelligent machine having no innate > philosophical knowledge or philosophical discussions while learning. Also, > the machine does not contain informational models of other creatures (that > may implicitly or explici

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 5:28 PM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 5:01 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > >> *> There are easier and harder tests than the Turing test. I don't know >> why you say it's the only test we have. Also: would passing the Argonov >> test (which I described in my document

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 5:01 PM Jason Resch wrote: > *> There are easier and harder tests than the Turing test. I don't know > why you say it's the only test we have. Also: would passing the Argonov > test (which I described in my document on whether zombies are possible) not > be a sufficient p

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 4:57 PM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 4:37 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > > *> A rock, along with many other things, can't pass a first grade >> arithmetic tes either; but that doesn't show that anything that can't pass >> a first grade arithmetic test is unintell

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On 7/11/2024 5:01 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 11:53 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >> "My dictionary says the definition of "*prerequisite*" is "*a thing that is required as a prior condition for something else to happen or exist*". And it says the definitio

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 4:37 PM Brent Meeker wrote: *> A rock, along with many other things, can't pass a first grade > arithmetic tes either; but that doesn't show that anything that can't pass > a first grade arithmetic test is unintelligent or unconscious, as for > example an octopus or a 3yr

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On 7/11/2024 4:34 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 11:46 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >> Consciousness is the inevitable product of intelligence, it is not the cause of intelligence. / I think that's wrong. / You say I'm wrong and yet I 99% agree with what you s

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On 7/11/2024 3:47 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:08 AM Brent Meeker wrote: >> That [/lack of a multiply operation/] would be no problem as long as the AI still had the addition operation, just do repeated additions, although it would slow things down

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:43 PM Jason Resch wrote: *> Turing completeness is not required for consciousness. The human brain > (given it's limited and faulty memory) wouldn't even meet the definition of > being Turing complete.* > Sometimes on some problems the human brain could be considered as

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:39 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > *My point was that consciousness doesn't require Turing completeness*. > Maybe, you and I will never know for sure, but intelligence certainly does require Touring Completeness. John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

AI is just a fancy word for lonely boys to give meaning to their empty life. lol On Thursday 11 July 2024 at 13:48:19 UTC+3 John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:08 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > > >> That [*lack of a multiply operation*] would be no problem as long as >>> the AI still had t

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

Brain doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. On Thursday 11 July 2024 at 22:04:14 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: > Only in the most idealized sense of Turing completeness would we argue > whether the brain is Turing complete. Neural networks are Turing complete. > > If we're intere

Re: Books

Uuu... is comng!!! Can't waittt!!! When? When? Next year? Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! On Thursday 11 July 2024 at 20:15:32 UTC+3 John Clark wrote: > I enjoyed Ray Kurzweil's new book The Singularity Is Nearer >

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

Only in the most idealized sense of Turing completeness would we argue whether the brain is Turing complete. Neural networks are Turing complete. If we're interested in whether consciousness requires Turing completeness, it seems silly to use the brain as a *counter example* of Turing completeness

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 2:39 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > I stand corrected. But that just means I chose a bad example. My point > was that consciousness doesn't require Turing completeness. You agreed > with me about the paramecium. > I agree Turing completeness is not required for consciousness.

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

I stand corrected.  But that just means I chose a bad example.  My point was that consciousness doesn't require Turing completeness. You agreed with me about the paramecium. Brent On 7/10/2024 7:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: There was a study done in the 1950s on probabilistic Turing machines ( h

Books

I enjoyed Ray Kurzweil's new book The Singularity Is Nearer so much I decided to reread Eric Drexler's book "Radical Abundance" . I enjoyed that one too. John K ClarkSee what's on m

Re: NYTimes.com: George Clooney: I Love Joe Biden. But We Need a New Nominee.

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 11:38 AM PGC wrote: *> Stewart is right: "This can't be real life!". * If only I could wake up and realize it was all just a horrible dream! But the reality is If Biden remains the Democratic candidate then Trump is going to win in a landslide, and the majority of the H

Re: NYTimes.com: George Clooney: I Love Joe Biden. But We Need a New Nominee.

Ok ok. It deserves another thread/conversation. So I'll repeat partially: Why a part of the US electorate is non-zombie, is its ability - in principle - to denounce the bullshit coming from the campaign they support. Maga does not have this ability. They have the old loyalty system, renowned fr

NYTimes.com: George Clooney: I Love Joe Biden. But We Need a New Nominee.

Explore this gift article from The New York Times. You can read it for free without a subscription. George Clooney: I Love Joe Biden. But We Need a New Nominee. I saw Biden three weeks ago at my fund-raiser for him. It’s devastating to say it, but he is not the same man he was, and he won’t win t

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 11:53 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> "My dictionary says the definition of "*prerequisite*" is "*a thing >> that is required as a prior condition for something else to happen or >> exist*". And >> it says the definition of "*cause*" is "*a person or thing that gives >> ris

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 11:46 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >> Consciousness is the inevitable product of intelligence, it is not the >> cause of intelligence. > > * I think that's wrong. * > You say I'm wrong and yet I 99% agree with what you say in the very next sentence, it would be 100% except tha

Re: Are Philosophical Zombies possible?

On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 2:08 AM Brent Meeker wrote: >> That [*lack of a multiply operation*] would be no problem as long as the >> AI still had the addition operation, just do repeated additions, although >> it would slow things down. But you could start removing more and more >> operations until

Re: Why do sad people hate so much ?

@Terren. Don't worry. Maybe one day you will find a girlfriend to save you from the inceldom. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list

Re: AI hype

@Terren. Yes, other consciousnesses. What is it that you don't understand ? On Wednesday 10 July 2024 at 20:52:13 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: > If you have no idea, then just say so. Otherwise, answer the question. > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 11:22 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth

Re: AI hype

@Brent. Who do you think you are for people to care about your replies ? = Such arrogance! =)) On Thursday 11 July 2024 at 07:14:08 UTC+3 Brent Meeker wrote: > I hope you don't care if people also ignore your rude and arrogant posts. > > Brent > > > On 7/9/2024 11:36 AM, 'Cosmin