Dualism via Quantum Mechanics

2012-05-12 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
A few quotes below to dualism from Max Velmans. Evgenii http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/05/quantum-dualist-interactionism.html In Chapter 2, Conscious Souls, Brains and Quantum Mechanics there is a nice section Quantum Dualist Interactionism (p. 17 – 21) where Max Velmans describes works that pres

Conscious Will and Responsibility: A Tribute to Benjamin Libet

2012-05-10 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Below there is a message from Facebook where his author briefly describes a book with papers about Libet's experiment. I guess that this should be useful for discussions about free will. Evgenii --- Review :Conscious Will and Responsibility: A Tribute to Benjamin Libet The editors of this

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-09 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 08.05.2012 21:48 meekerdb said the following: On 5/8/2012 11:09 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... For the development of science, it is necessary to have a believe that equations discovered by a human mind could be used for the whole history of Universe. At that time, this belief came from

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-09 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 09.05.2012 08:47 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 08 May 2012, at 21:41, meekerdb wrote: On 5/8/2012 12:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 8, 2:17 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 22:21 Craig Weinberg said the following: On May 7, 3:37 pm, meekerdb wrote: ... Sure

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-08 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.05.2012 22:21 Craig Weinberg said the following: On May 7, 3:37 pm, meekerdb wrote: ... Sure science grew out of Christianity, out of the decay and fragmentation of Christianity. When Christianity was strong and in control is what we call "The Dark Ages". Now that it is no longer in

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-08 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.05.2012 21:49 meekerdb said the following: On 5/7/2012 12:09 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 19:52 John Clark said the following: On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: > To me the logic of trinity is perverse in the same extent as quantum mechanics. Perve

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-08 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.05.2012 22:19 meekerdb said the following: On 5/7/2012 12:29 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 20:11 meekerdb said the following: On 5/7/2012 10:42 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 04:17 meekerdb said the following: On 5/6/2012 5:47 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 6, 4

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.05.2012 20:11 meekerdb said the following: On 5/7/2012 10:42 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 04:17 meekerdb said the following: On 5/6/2012 5:47 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 6, 4:06 pm, meekerdb wrote: Newton, Boyle, Tyndall, Descarte, Laplace, Kepler,...none of them were

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.05.2012 20:01 meekerdb said the following: On 5/7/2012 10:35 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... It must have had its causes, but I note that it coincided with the reformation and the fragmentation of the Church's power. Science developed most in England where Henry VIII had divorce

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.05.2012 19:52 John Clark said the following: On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: > To me the logic of trinity is perverse in the same extent as quantum mechanics. Perverse it may be but it's not my business to judge what quantum mechanics does in priv

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.05.2012 04:17 meekerdb said the following: On 5/6/2012 5:47 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 6, 4:06 pm, meekerdb wrote: Newton, Boyle, Tyndall, Descarte, Laplace, Kepler,...none of them were from the universities, which were dominated by theology. All of them were still theological thi

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.05.2012 22:06 meekerdb said the following: On 5/6/2012 10:51 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 05.05.2012 23:34 meekerdb said the following: ... I would agree with that. Rome fell for other, more material reasons. But its fall created a power vacuum which was filled by organized

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.05.2012 20:04 Stephen P. King said the following: ... [Side note: This is where we start to see that our words can be such to sometimes have only other words as referents and sometimes have actual objects (not words) as referents. (I wish we could get a semiotic theory expert to join us!

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.05.2012 23:34 meekerdb said the following: On 5/5/2012 1:07 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... According to Prof Hoenen, the logic of trinity was at that time basically in the blood. He gave several examples including even Marx. According to Prof Hoenen, the logic in Marx's Capital i

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.05.2012 20:30 meekerdb said the following: On 5/5/2012 11:05 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... According to Collingwood (as Prof Hoenen has told) one can find a reason in Christianity. First, it is monotheism and this is quite important to infer inexorable scientific laws. Second trinity

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.05.2012 18:08 meekerdb said the following: On 5/4/2012 11:59 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 04.05.2012 23:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/4/2012 2:18 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: ... I'm not saying that science and religion are on an equal footing, but I think it's a just-s

Free will in MWI

2012-05-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
I have started listening to Beginning of Infinity and joined the discussion list for the book. Right now there is a discussion there Free will in MWI http://groups.google.com/group/beginning-of-infinity/t/b172f0e03d68bcc6 I am at the beginning of the book and I do not know for sure, but from t

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 04.05.2012 23:45 meekerdb said the following: On 5/4/2012 2:18 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: ... I'm not saying that science and religion are on an equal footing, but I think it's a just-so-story to account for it by assuming that religion must be easier to master and therefore more attractive

Re: models and physical laws

2012-04-29 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
even fancy about. On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 3:10 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: If we say that everything based on models, the question is then what physical laws are. For example, if quantum mechanics is just a model, then its interpretation, for example MWI, in my view, does not make too much sense.

Re: models and physical laws

2012-04-29 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 28.04.2012 17:49 meekerdb said the following: On 4/28/2012 12:10 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: If we say that everything based on models, the question is then what physical laws are. For example, if quantum mechanics is just a model, then its interpretation, for example MWI, in my view, does

Re: models and physical laws

2012-04-28 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
If we say that everything based on models, the question is then what physical laws are. For example, if quantum mechanics is just a model, then its interpretation, for example MWI, in my view, does not make too much sense. Evgenii On 28.04.2012 03:00 meekerdb said the following: ... > Som

Re: MIND|CONSTRUCT

2012-04-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
l AI. Brent On 4/27/2012 11:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: A link from my discussion on Linkedin http://www.mindconstruct.com/ "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences and every ot

MIND|CONSTRUCT

2012-04-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
A link from my discussion on Linkedin http://www.mindconstruct.com/ "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences and every other area where 'conscious' man-machine interaction is of any impor

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-26 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 25.04.2012 23:25 meekerdb said the following: On 4/25/2012 11:45 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 24.04.2012 22:22 meekerdb said the following: ... As I've posted before, when we know how look at a brain and infer what it's thinking and we know how to build a brain that behaves as w

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 24.04.2012 22:22 meekerdb said the following: ... As I've posted before, when we know how look at a brain and infer what it's thinking and we know how to build a brain that behaves as we want, in other words when we can do consciousness engineering, the "hard problem" will be bypassed as a m

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
A link from the Consciousness group on Facebook We're closing in on consciousness in the brain http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21428605.900-were-closing-in-on-consciousness-in-the-brain.html "Brain "observatories" may solve the puzzle of how material brains create an intangible world of l

Re: The Mind Outside My Head

2012-04-11 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 11.04.2012 08:36 meekerdb said the following: On 4/10/2012 11:08 PM, John wrote: http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/apr/10/mind-outside-head-consciousness/ It is a more extreme version of a view I have long held that consciousness is relative to an external environment and without

Re: deism and Newton

2012-04-10 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
e mathematics has not been yet developed? Evgenii On 09.04.2012 18:21 meekerdb said the following: On 4/9/2012 7:28 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 08.04.2012 19:55 meekerdb said the following: On 4/8/2012 5:20 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I believe that we should consider Newton in his histor

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-04-10 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 09.04.2012 18:58 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 09 Apr 2012, at 16:35, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I believe that now I understand what physicalism is. What would you recommend to read about mechanism? Something like this SEP paper about physicalism http://plato.stanford.edu/entries

Re: what is mechanism?

2012-04-09 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 08.04.2012 21:32 Bruno Marchal said the following: ... This is well illustrated in this (one hour) BBC broadcast, featuring Marcus de Sautoy (who wrote a nice book on the "music of the primes"). (thanks to the salvianaut linking to this in a salvia forum) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B

Re: deism and Newton

2012-04-09 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 08.04.2012 19:55 meekerdb said the following: On 4/8/2012 5:20 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I believe that we should consider Newton in his historical context. As far as I have understood, because of not quite right empirical values (masses, etc.) and/or because of low level of

Re: deism and Newton

2012-04-08 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 08.04.2012 09:04 meekerdb said the following: On 4/7/2012 10:36 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.04.2012 22:16 meekerdb said the following: On 4/7/2012 5:11 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... More to this story http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/04/god-as-a-cosmic-operator.html where there are

Re: deism and Newton

2012-04-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.04.2012 22:16 meekerdb said the following: On 4/7/2012 5:11 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.04.2012 19:22 meekerdb said the following: On 4/6/2012 9:26 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... “The very possibility of applied mathematics is an expression . . . of the Christian belief that

Re: deism and Newton

2012-04-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.04.2012 19:22 meekerdb said the following: On 4/6/2012 9:26 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... “The very possibility of applied mathematics is an expression . . . of the Christian belief that nature is the creation of an omnipotent God.” Of course the regularity of nature is more

Re: Two Studies. Visual Cortex does not see. Consciousness is not thought.

2012-04-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Craig, You may like this paper as well Klemm, W. (2010). Free will debates: Simple experiments are not so simple, Advances in Cognitive Psychology http://versita.metapress.com/content/l820g65u22883625/fulltext.pdf I have seen it on a Russian cite: http://nature-wonder.livejournal.com/189090

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry: Late error detection

2012-04-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
a peculiar role of mathematics in science. If physicists accept that Nature obeys to the laws written by mathematical equations, then actually your position looks quite natural. Evgenii On 06.04.2012 10:52 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 05 Apr 2012, at 22:53, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

Review of Consciousness: Creeping up on the Hard Problem

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On Arpil 11, 2-3pm Pacific Time in Second Life http://slurl.com/secondlife/Nerice/162/69/62 I will review a book of Jeffrey A. Gray, Consciousness: Creeping up on the Hard Problem. Information and slides are at http://embryogenesisexplained.com/2012/04/consciousness.html You are welcome. E

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry: Late error detection

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 21:44 meekerdb said the following: On 4/5/2012 11:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Display to whom? the homunculus? No, he creates an interesting scheme to escape the homunculus: p. 110. “(1) the unconscious brain constructs a display in a medium, that of conscious perception

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 21:39 David Nyman said the following: On 5 April 2012 19:56, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yet, this does not change his hypothesis about why "consciousness display" could be advantageous for evolution. We do not know what it is, but if is there, it certainly can help t

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 21:38 meekerdb said the following: On 4/5/2012 11:56 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 05.04.2012 20:39 David Nyman said the following: On 5 April 2012 17:37, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: (a) It is impossible to make a philosophical zombie as consciousness is just a side-effect of

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 20:39 David Nyman said the following: On 5 April 2012 17:37, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: (a) It is impossible to make a philosophical zombie as consciousness is just a side-effect of intelligent behaviour; (b) It is possible to make a philosophical zombie but the mechanism for

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry: Late error detection

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 20:10 meekerdb said the following: On 4/5/2012 9:41 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 05.04.2012 01:43 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Apr 4, 2:58 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: The term late error detection as such could be employed without consciousness indeed. Yet, Jeffrey Gray

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry: Late error detection

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 20:07 meekerdb said the following: On 4/4/2012 11:58 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: The term late error detection as such could be employed without consciousness indeed. Yet, Jeffrey Gray gives it some special meaning that I will try briefly describe below. Jeffrey Gray in his book

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry: Late error detection

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 01:43 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Apr 4, 2:58 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: The term late error detection as such could be employed without consciousness indeed. Yet, Jeffrey Gray gives it some special meaning that I will try briefly describe below. Jeffrey Gray in his

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 01:59 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 03.04.2012 02:06 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: Since there is no evolutionary advantage to consciousness it must be a side-effect of the sort of behaviour that

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.04.2012 04:14 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Your claim that it is impossible to feel in a deterministic universe is unjustified. It's simply an idea you have taken a fancy to. I don't claim that it is impossible to feel i

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry: Late error detection

2012-04-04 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
clear advantage from the Evolution viewpoint. Evgenii On 04.04.2012 09:31 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 03 Apr 2012, at 22:38, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 3, 3:56 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 03.04.2012 02:06 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: ... Since there is no

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 03.04.2012 05:29 meekerdb said the following: On 4/2/2012 7:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 2, 9:02 pm, meekerdb wrote: I like Julian Jaynes idea that it is a side-effect of using the same parts of the brain for cogitation as are used for perception. That would be the kind of thing that

Re: Primitive Awareness and Symmetry

2012-04-03 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 03.04.2012 02:06 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: From blindsight, synesthesia, and anosognosia we know that particular qualia are not inevitably associated with the conditions they usually represent for us, so it seems impossibl

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-28 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
the conclusion "information-to-energy conversion". It would be nice to understand how information emerges from the movements of atoms and molecules in the whole system including the controller. Evgenii On 27.03.2012 22:50 meekerdb said the following: On 3/27/2012 11:26 AM, Evgen

Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
ations and symmetry breaking could happen along the way that you have described. Evgenii On 25.03.2012 23:11 Stephen P. King said the following: On 3/25/2012 2:46 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/25/2012 2:43 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Let us take Benard cells for example. It is a good idea. I gue

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
an perform work or produce heat when it goes from one state to another. Hence the statement above as such is just sloppy. Evgenii On 26.03.2012 00:44 meekerdb said the following: On 3/25/2012 6:44 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.03.2012 19:58 meekerdb said the following: On 3/14/201

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 15.03.2012 22:58 Russell Standish said the following: On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 07:25:01PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 14.03.2012 23:34 Russell Standish said the following: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:51:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.03.2012 19:58 meekerdb said the following: On 3/14/2012 11:51 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what happens. It is relative not just to the

Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
I have found Logistic Map http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LogisticMap.html Here the system has very different outcomes depending from initial conditions (now I understand your use of statistics). Yet, each trajectory is deterministic. Hence, this was not my question. Sorry for being unclear. Bi

Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
good, many not so good. I'm sure you should be able to find something appropriate - maybe the appearance of Benard cells for instance. Cheers On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 10:05:00PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Hi Stephen, I am not sure if I completely understand you. My question was rather

Re: Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-24 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
good to consider this on a simple example. Say, I do not understand how do you apply statistics in this case. Either it is unclear to me how infinite computational power will help. Evgenii On 23.03.2012 22:27 Stephen P. King said the following: On 3/23/2012 3:08 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: In

Determinism in the case of bifurcations and symmetry breaking

2012-03-23 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
In physics there are bifurcations and symmetry breaking. What happens then if I solve some transient problem for a system where a bifurcation or symmetry breaking happens. How the choice will be made? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everyt

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-15 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 14.03.2012 23:34 Russell Standish said the following: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:51:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Then the thermodynamic entropy is subjective. Try to convince in this engineers who develop engines, or chemists who compute equilibria, and see what happens. I take

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-14 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 13.03.2012 20:59 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 12:44 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:32 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 12:26 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... In my collection I have this quote for example http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/01/information.html

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 13.03.2012 20:32 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 12:26 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 13.03.2012 20:09 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 10:28 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Could you please give one example from physics (yet please not a thought experiment) where

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 13.03.2012 20:09 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 10:28 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Could you please give one example from physics (yet please not a thought experiment) where information allows us to reduce entropy? http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101114/full/news.2010.606

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 13.03.2012 18:20 meekerdb said the following: On 3/13/2012 6:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Mar 2012, at 01:43, Russell Standish wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed-1.10186 This about experimentally testing Landauer's principle that computati

Re: For Evgenii: the-unavoidable-cost-of-computation-revealed

2012-03-13 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Russell, Thanks for the link. Yet, it is unclear to me what is exactly information and computation in this experiment. To be more precise, let us take physicalism: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/physicalism/ This is probably in what I believe right now, although as I have described recen

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.03.2012 14:21 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 06 Mar 2012, at 12:22, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Stephen, The life is full of paradoxes. My point was that while philosophers cannot solve apparently simple problems (well, these problems happen not to be simple), engineers continue doing

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
ave enjoyed my dinner. Whether wine, bread, cheese, salad and pepperoni have enjoyed it too, I do not know. I would not mind, if they did. Evgenii On 05.03.2012 06:33 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Mar 4, 3:07 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I personally still at the position that the

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
seems that engineers successfully fills it. Ask them, how they do it. Evgenii On 05.03.2012 14:34 Stephen P. King said the following: On 3/5/2012 7:01 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: John, It is not that bad to say that we do not know something. Yet, it might be even better to specify more accurately

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.03.2012 18:29 meekerdb said the following: On 3/5/2012 3:23 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: The experiment takes an operational approach to what Pi means. During the initial stage of the experiment mathematicians prove the existence of Pi. When mathematicians 'prove the existenc

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
John, It is not that bad to say that we do not know something. Yet, it might be even better to specify more accurately what exactly we do not know. Think of your younger colleagues that do chemistry research right now. Chemists have been quite successful and the story continues. The concepts

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
hal said the following: On 04 Mar 2012, at 17:12, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Bruno, Actually it is not a joke. I guess it is my first step toward Platonia. As I am a chemist by background, the problem might be not mathematically correct indeed. Yet, if you could help, we could improve it in this respect.

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-04 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
jects will not exist any less if humanity were to go extinct. However, arguing that is like arguing for a particular answer to a koan. On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yet, according to my current view, mathematics has been created by the mankind. -- You received th

Re: Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-04 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
. Evgenii On 04.03.2012 14:39 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 04 Mar 2012, at 13:27, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: An experiment to perform in order to prove experimentally whether Pi exists independently from the mind The idea came during discussion on embryophysics list http

Two Mathematicians in a Bunker and Existence of Pi

2012-03-04 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
An experiment to perform in order to prove experimentally whether Pi exists independently from the mind The idea came during discussion on embryophysics list http://groups.google.com/group/embryophysics/t/419d3c1fec30e3b5 Below there is a description of the experiment that one could think of

Re: Entropy and information

2012-03-01 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: How would you define "compute" in the sentence "a bacteria computes"? Is this similar to what happens within a computer? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To pos

Re: Entropy and information

2012-02-29 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
e water and nutrient resources and outgrown those that do not. Without a predictable linear environment, computation and thus evolution and life is impossible. Alberto On 28 feb, 21:31, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Alberto, I am thermodynamicist and I do not know exactly what is information and computati

Re: Entropy and information

2012-02-28 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Alberto, I am thermodynamicist and I do not know exactly what is information and computation. You have written that living beings perform computations. Several questions in this respect. Are computations are limited to living beings only? Does a bacteria perform computations as well? If yes

Re: Entropy and information

2012-02-28 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
ishes, Evgenii On 27.02.2012 20:43 meekerdb said the following: On 2/27/2012 10:59 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 27.02.2012 00:13 meekerdb said the following: On 2/26/2012 5:58 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I have written a summary for the discussion in the subject: http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/02/entrop

Re: Entropy and information

2012-02-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 27.02.2012 00:13 meekerdb said the following: On 2/26/2012 5:58 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I have written a summary for the discussion in the subject: http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/02/entropy-and-information.html No doubt, this is my personal viewpoint. If you see that I have missed something

Re: The free will function

2012-02-27 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 27.02.2012 17:47 John Clark said the following: On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Craig Weinbergwrote: There is no simulation of red. Red is only red. But red itself is a simulation. Electromagnetic waves a length of 700 nanometers can produce the quale "red" in the minds of most (but not

Entropy and information

2012-02-26 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
I have written a summary for the discussion in the subject: http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/02/entropy-and-information.html No doubt, this is my personal viewpoint. If you see that I have missed something, please let me know. Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-25 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 20.02.2012 19:54 meekerdb said the following: ... I'm beginning to think you have never taken a class in statistical mechanics. There's a good online course here: http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/sm1/lectures/lectures.html Those particularly relevant to this thread start at http://fa

Re: The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-21 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 20.02.2012 21:20 meekerdb said the following: On 2/20/2012 12:02 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I am ready to learn the meaning of information in thermodynamics. Please just explain it by means of practical examples. The link I sent below works out the entropy of an ideal gas using

Re: The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-21 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 20.02.2012 22:43 Russell Standish said the following: On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 07:33:13PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I have nothing against Adami's book as such. His description of his software avida and his experiments with it are okay. My point was about his claim that his wor

Re: The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-20 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 20.02.2012 19:54 meekerdb said the following: On 2/20/2012 10:33 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.02.2012 22:13 Russell Standish said the following: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 11:21:01AM -0500, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 5:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: If one well defines a

Re: The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-20 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 19.02.2012 22:13 Russell Standish said the following: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 11:21:01AM -0500, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 5:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: If one well defines a thought experiment with the Maxwell's demon, then it is quite clear that such thing doe

Re: The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 19.02.2012 17:21 John Clark said the following: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 5:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: If one well defines a thought experiment with the Maxwell's demon, then it is quite clear that such thing does not exist. Why then to spend on it so much time? Maxwell'

Re: COMP theology

2012-02-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 19.02.2012 15:52 Bruno Marchal said the following: ... Both Cantor and Gödel used the word theology ... Could you please cite these works? By the way, recently I have listened to the course Theorien der Wahrheit (Theories of truth) by Prof Hoenen. Among other works he has discussed Logisc

Re: The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 18.02.2012 23:37 Russell Standish said the following: On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 04:49:44PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 09.02.2012 07:49 meekerdb said the following: There's an interesting paper by Bennett that I ran across, which discusses the relation of Shannon entropy, thermody

The thermodynamics of computation

2012-02-18 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 09.02.2012 07:49 meekerdb said the following: > There's an interesting paper by Bennett that I ran across, which > discusses the relation of Shannon entropy, thermodynamic entropy, and > algorithmic entropy in the context of DNA and RNA replication: > > http://qi.ethz.ch/edu/qisemFS10/papers

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-11 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 11.02.2012 04:27 Russell Standish said the following: On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 09:39:50PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Let me ask you the same question that I have recently asked Brent. Could you please tell me, the thermodynamic entropy of what is discussed in Jason's example

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-10 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 09.02.2012 07:49 meekerdb said the following: ... There's an interesting paper by Bennett that I ran across, which discusses the relation of Shannon entropy, thermodynamic entropy, and algorithmic entropy in the context of DNA and RNA replication: http://qi.ethz.ch/edu/qisemFS10/papers/81

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-10 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 08.02.2012 22:44 Russell Standish said the following: On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 08:32:16PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... What I observe personally is that there is information in informatics and information in physics (if we say that the thermodynamic entropy is the information). If you

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-10 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 09.02.2012 00:44 1Z said the following: On Feb 7, 7:04 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Let us take a closed vessel with oxygen and hydrogen at room temperature. Then we open a platinum catalyst in the vessel and the reaction starts. Will then the information in the vessel be conserved

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-08 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 07.02.2012 23:06 Russell Standish said the following: On Tue, Feb 07, 2012 at 08:15:10PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Russell, This is circular - temperature is usually defined in terms of entropy: T^{-1} = dS/dE This is wrong. The temperature is defined according to the Zeroth Law. The

Re: Entropy: A Guide for the Perplexed

2012-02-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.02.2012 21:10 meekerdb said the following: On 2/6/2012 11:18 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 05.02.2012 22:33 Russell Standish said the following: On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 07:28:47PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: The most funny it looks in the conclusion p. 28(142) "First, all notio

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
effects you derive an exact equation that will connect the information capacity of the carrier with the thermodynamic entropy? If yes, could you please give such an equation? Evgenii On 06.02.2012 22:17 Russell Standish said the following: On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 08:36:44PM +0100, Evgenii

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.02.2012 22:19 Russell Standish said the following: On Mon, Feb 06, 2012 at 08:20:53PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 05.02.2012 22:46 Russell Standish said the following: On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 08:56:10PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: In this respect your question is actually nice, as

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-07 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.02.2012 20:42 meekerdb said the following: On 2/6/2012 9:03 AM, 1Z wrote: There is also a "conservation" of information. It is apparently industrictable. Is there? if there is , it is a phsycial law, and AFAIK it is hotly debated. It's the same as the question of wave-function collaps

Re: Entropy: A Guide for the Perplexed

2012-02-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
. If you need help, please just let me know. ———– On Feb 5, 2012, at 12:28 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 05.02.2012 17:16 Evgenii Rudnyi said the following: On 24.01.2012 22:56 meekerdb said the following: In thinking about how to answer this I came across an excellent paper by

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.02.2012 23:05 Russell Standish said the following: On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 08:50:40PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I guess that you have never done a lab in experimental thermodynamics. There are classical experiment where people measure heat of combustion, heat capacity, equilibrium

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