Re: The origin of life has not been explained

It's *consciousery* vs. *machinery.* @philipthrift On Saturday, July 27, 2019 at 4:31:27 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > You said a good thing maybe even without realizing it. The "machinary" is > not a "machinary" at all. Is a system of interacting conscious agents that > work together to

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

You said a good thing maybe even without realizing it. The "machinary" is not a "machinary" at all. Is a system of interacting conscious agents that work together to implement mechanical functions. On Saturday, 27 July 2019 03:34:20 UTC+3, smitra wrote: > > > That's like trying to build a self-d

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 27-07-2019 01:29, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 4:13 PM, smitra wrote: On 27-07-2019 00:39, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wr

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 7/26/2019 4:13 PM, smitra wrote: On 27-07-2019 00:39, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 27-07-2019 00:39, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wr

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 7/26/2019 3:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wrote: This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People li

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 23-07-2019 21:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wrote: This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People like Leslie Orgel have explained why meta

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

> On 23 Jul 2019, at 20:26, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 9:23:45 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 14:15, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 13:45, Ph

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 3:05:16 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > Keep in mind that "matter" is just an idea in consciousness. > > On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 16:45:29 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. >> > But even given that the o

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

You talk of life as if is some kind of mechanism, which is not. Life is a product of consciousness. So your entire analysis is beyond meaninglessness. On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 22:07:05 UTC+3, smitra wrote: > > On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > On 7/22/2019 3:55 P

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

Keep in mind that "matter" is just an idea in consciousness. On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 16:45:29 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To uns

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 18:26, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 9:23:45 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 14:15, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2019,

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 7/23/2019 12:07 PM, smitra wrote: On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wrote: This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People like Leslie Orgel have explained why metabolism first is a non-starter. And you think Nick Lane hasn

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 23-07-2019 04:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wrote: This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People like Leslie Orgel have explained why metabolism first is a non-starter. And you think Nick Lane hasn't read Orgel? Orgel's original argumen

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 9:23:45 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 14:15, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 13:45, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Keep in mind there is no consciousness wi

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 14:15, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 13:45, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. >> >> Is there matter without consciousness? >>

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 8:56:07 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 13:45, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. > > > Is there matter without consciousness? > > Telmo. > According to panpsychists, *no*. :) https://www.iep.u

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, at 13:45, Philip Thrift wrote: > > Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. Is there matter without consciousness? Telmo. > > @philipthrift > > > On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 7:30:20 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: >> Keep in mind that life is linked to co

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

Keep in mind there is no consciousness without matter. @philipthrift On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 7:30:20 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > Keep in mind that life is linked to consciousness. There is no such thing > as "material life". Whatever happened had to involve consciousness one way >

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

Keep in mind that life is linked to consciousness. There is no such thing as "material life". Whatever happened had to involve consciousness one way or another. On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 01:55:58 UTC+3, smitra wrote: > > Keep in mind > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On 7/22/2019 3:55 PM, smitra wrote: This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People like Leslie Orgel have explained why metabolism first is a non-starter. And you think Nick Lane hasn't read Orgel? He has argued on the basis of the difficulties of getting to functional RNA, and mor

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

This doesn't address the fundamental problems. People like Leslie Orgel have explained why metabolism first is a non-starter. He has argued on the basis of the difficulties of getting to functional RNA, and more recently people like Paul Davies have pointed out the fundamental nature of this pr

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

Read Nick Lane.  He makes a good argument for a metabolism first abiogenesis.  He observes that the ADP<->ATP energy cycle is the same in every organism and he shows how it could have originated in alkaline ocean vents. Brent On 7/6/2019 5:09 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 6:34

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:52:41 AM UTC+2, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > He does have the correct *contemplative, far-away look* on his home page: > > http://nick-lane.net/ > Heh! Yeah good try on the look. For yours truly it's gotta be the chest out, stoic, pointing out into the distance/hor

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

He does have the correct *contemplative, far-away look* on his home page: http://nick-lane.net/ *Acetyl phosphate as a primordial energy currency at the origin of life* Alexandra Whicher, Eloi Camprubi, Silvana Pinna, Barry Herschy and Nick Lane Orig Life Evol Biosph (2018) https://doi.org/10.

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

I think Nick Lane's metabolism-first theory, which he discusses in his book "The Vital Question", is more plausible.  There's good online talk by Lane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhPrirmk8F4. Brent On 7/6/2019 8:32 AM, smitra wrote: https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.01945 A followup article wh

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

hat quacks. Noteworthy, if possible?  -Original Message- From: smitra To: everything-list Sent: Sat, Jul 6, 2019 6:43 pm Subject: Re: The origin of life has not been explained Although there is an element of panspermia in this proposal, as I explain in the conclusion, the panspermia element

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: *> The idea of the RNA world runs into trouble with the ribosome, which is > a hugely complex system of RNA and proteins* In the RNA world there would be nothing nearly as large and competent as modern rib

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

of panspermia. It made for a great > > tale in Stephen Baxter's Evolution (2002), and one of Larry Niven's > > short tales however. (The Green Marauder). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: smitra > > > To: everything-list > > > Sen

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 10:32:54 AM UTC-5, smitra wrote: > > https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.01945 > > > A followup article which focuses more on the mathematical issues is > under construction, the key points are: > > 1) In interstellar space, simple organic compounds captured in small ice >

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

these parts, I am no enthusiast of panspermia. It made for a great tale in Stephen Baxter's Evolution (2002), and one of Larry Niven's short tales however. (The Green Marauder). -Original Message- From: smitra To: everything-list Sent: Sat, Jul 6, 2019 11:32 am Subject: Re: T

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 5:04:40 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 4:18 PM Lawrence Crowell > wrote > >> > We have lots of hypotheses on this, but it is a point where biological >> evolution loses explanatory power, just as general relativity fails at the >> center of bl

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 4:18 PM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote > > We have lots of hypotheses on this, but it is a point where biological > evolution loses explanatory power, just as general relativity fails at the > center of black hole collapse. I think that's the ke

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 5:53:28 AM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 3:48:12 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4sP1E1Jd_Y >>

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

To: everything-list Sent: Sat, Jul 6, 2019 11:32 am Subject: Re: The origin of life has not been explained https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.01945 A followup article which focuses more on the mathematical issues is under construction, the key points are: 1) In interstellar space, simple organic compou

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

.  -Original Message- From: Philip Thrift To: Everything List Sent: Sat, Jul 6, 2019 8:01 am Subject: Re: The origin of life has not been explained What does "social status" have to do with a program shown on a far-right channel? I care about the truth of identifying the source of informati

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

https://arxiv.org/abs/1711.01945 A followup article which focuses more on the mathematical issues is under construction, the key points are: 1) In interstellar space, simple organic compounds captured in small ice grains were subject to UV radiation and occasional heating due to incident co

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 9:07:14 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 4:48 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > Science has a good explanation how to go from the simplest bacteria to > human beings. Science has also made a g

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 4:48 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: Science has a good explanation how to go from the simplest bacteria to human beings. Science has also made a good start at explaining how to go from simple chemicals to simple bacteria, but

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

What does "social status" have to do with a program shown on *a far-right channel*? I care about the truth of identifying *the source* of information. Do you care about that truth at all? @philipthrift On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 6:39:19 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > So you care more a

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

So you care more about social status than truth ? Quite irrational, don't you think ? On Saturday, 6 July 2019 14:37:30 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: > > Who cares? > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 6:18:38 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > What does this has to do with what that guy is saying ? > > On Saturday, 6 July 2019 13:53:28 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> You know that this YouTube channel >> >> Who cares? But you should identify the source of w

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

What does this has to do with what that guy is saying ? On Saturday, 6 July 2019 13:53:28 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > You know that this YouTube channel > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this gro

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 3:48:12 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4sP1E1Jd_Y > > You know that this YouTube channel - *T**he Discovery Scien

Re: The origin of life has not been explained

Thank you for this interesting share! This might be of interest: https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-creation-emergence-of-species.html > On 06-Jul-2019, at 1:48 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4sP1E1Jd_Y > -- > You received

The origin of life has not been explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4sP1E1Jd_Y -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and