Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 22.46, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 7:07 PM, Mark Filipak wrote: On 19/06/2025 18.27, Rob Hallam wrote: It is published.  You can compile and distribute it to your heart's content- that's one of the great things about Free software. I'm on Windows. There's no compiler. The

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 21.36, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 6:11 PM, Mark Filipak wrote: On 19/06/2025 18.09, Rob Hallam wrote: The internet runs on Linux. Phones run on Linux. Embedded devices run Linux. Come on, Rob. The Internet doesn't run on Linux any more than companies run on Oracle. And

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Carl Zwanzig
On 6/19/2025 7:07 PM, Mark Filipak wrote: On 19/06/2025 18.27, Rob Hallam wrote: It is published.  You can compile and distribute it to your heart's content- that's one of the great things about Free software. I'm on Windows. There's no compiler. There are many compilers* for windows, includ

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 18.27, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 19:33, Mark Filipak wrote: Well, Rob, I can't read 'C' code, so I'm unqualified to know whether Paul's patch is any good. We will all see that when it's published and compiled and linked and distributed, eh? It is published. You

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Carl Zwanzig
On 6/19/2025 4:33 PM, Mark Filipak wrote: Did you see the movie "THE MATRIX"? The pill was the blue pill that evoked conformity. No. z! ___ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-user To unsubscri

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Carl Zwanzig
On 6/19/2025 6:11 PM, Mark Filipak wrote: On 19/06/2025 18.09, Rob Hallam wrote: The internet runs on Linux. Phones run on Linux. Embedded devices run Linux. Come on, Rob. The Internet doesn't run on Linux any more than companies run on Oracle. And what runs on phones and appliances could h

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 18.09, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 15:04, Mark Filipak wrote: The internet runs on Linux. Phones run on Linux. Embedded devices run Linux. Come on, Rob. The Internet doesn't run on Linux any more than companies run on Oracle. And what runs on phones and appliances

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 18.27, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 19:33, Mark Filipak wrote: I have a story. I'm corresponding with a fellow who wrote a popular subtitling program. He wrote it in 2000, rewrote it in 2013, and is currently rewriting it, again. He seems to have little idea regardi

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 18.31, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 11:44 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: On 19/06/2025 12.16, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 3:37 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: Take a pill, Z. what is that supposed to mean? Please answer that. Did you see the movie "THE MATRIX"? The pill was the b

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Carl Zwanzig
On 6/19/2025 11:44 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: On 19/06/2025 12.16, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 3:37 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: Take a pill, Z. what is that supposed to mean? Please answer that. Why would I search for 'ffmpeg "sost"', Z? To find out what it could mean, of course. Heck, y

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Rob Hallam
On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 19:33, Mark Filipak wrote: > > On 19/06/2025 13.42, Rob Hallam wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 17:04, Mark Filipak > > wrote: > >> I apologize, Rob. I was going by the bodies, not the headers. The > >> intervening time was actually a > >> little less than 2 hours. I apol

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Rob Hallam
On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 15:04, Mark Filipak wrote: > On 19/06/2025 08.47, Rob Hallam wrote: > > It's bizarre that FOSS is held up as an example of failure, never > > succeeding, much worse than commercial software etc given the internet > > is pretty near all hosted on Linux stacks, Android is Linu

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Jim DeLaHunt
So Mark, for all his self-obstruction by insisting on terms which others don't understand, and for all the digressions into rants about free software in general, is asking a valid question here. On 2025-06-19 14:05, Mark Filipak wrote: ...When FFmpeg reports "Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2,

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 15.34, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 21:33 schrieb Mark Filipak: If the input is 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m, then the head end of the processing pipeline is also 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m. Yes or No? what else should it be moron? I'm not asking what it should be. I'm asking what

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 16.55, hydra-at-gmail@ffmpeg.org wrote: On 19/06/2025 08.03, Reindl Harald wrote: There is a FOSS clone of TextPad. It's named NotePad++. It's somewhat pathetic. > Cough. Had been sympathetic with making things clearer, but definitely lost me with that and the FOSS "rea

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread hydra3333-at-gmail.com
On 19/06/2025 08.03, Reindl Harald wrote: > There is a FOSS clone of TextPad. It's named NotePad++. It's somewhat pathetic. Cough. Had been sympathetic with making things clearer, but definitely lost me with that and the FOSS "reasoning". Oh dear. Good luck with continuing to improve clarity w

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 21:33 schrieb Mark Filipak: If the input is 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m, then the head end of the processing pipeline is also 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m. Yes or No? what else should it be moron? ___ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 15.27, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 21:26 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 15.22, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 21:08 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 15.02, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 20:53 schrieb Mark Filipak: Why would I search for 'ffmpeg "sost"

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 21:26 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 15.22, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 21:08 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 15.02, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 20:53 schrieb Mark Filipak: Why would I search for 'ffmpeg "sost"' why would i search for "+short" in c

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 15.22, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 21:08 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 15.02, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 20:53 schrieb Mark Filipak: Why would I search for 'ffmpeg "sost"' why would i search for "+short" in context of dig? I have no idea. Why don't you

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 21:08 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 15.02, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 20:53 schrieb Mark Filipak: Why would I search for 'ffmpeg "sost"' why would i search for "+short" in context of dig? I have no idea. Why don't you tell me, eh? i tell you: some things

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 15.02, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 20:53 schrieb Mark Filipak: Why would I search for 'ffmpeg "sost"' why would i search for "+short" in context of dig? I have no idea. Why don't you tell me, eh? i tell you: some things require brain and knowledge - since you don't

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 20:53 schrieb Mark Filipak: Why would I search for 'ffmpeg "sost"' why would i search for "+short" in context of dig? I have no idea. Why don't you tell me, eh? i tell you: some things require brain and knowledge - since you don't have both you are helpless if thats all

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 14.50, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 20:44 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 12.16, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 3:37 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: I suggest you reread the basic ffmpeg manual at https:// www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg.html; it's always good to reread the basics,

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 20:44 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 19/06/2025 12.16, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 3:37 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: I suggest you reread the basic ffmpeg manual at https:// www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg.html; it's always good to reread the basics, sometimes useful things pop out afresh.

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 12.16, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/19/2025 3:37 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: I suggest you reread the basic ffmpeg manual at https:// www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg.html; it's always good to reread the basics, sometimes useful things pop out afresh. Take a pill, Z. what is that supposed to mean

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 13.42, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 17:04, Mark Filipak wrote: I apologize, Rob. I was going by the bodies, not the headers. The intervening time was actually a little less than 2 hours. I apologize for the error. I appreciate you taking the time to correct the mist

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Rob Hallam
On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 17:04, Mark Filipak wrote: > I apologize, Rob. I was going by the bodies, not the headers. The intervening > time was actually a > little less than 2 hours. I apologize for the error. I appreciate you taking the time to correct the mistake, thanks. > 2 hours... Hmmm... Yo

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
Hi Andrew, On 19/06/2025 12.13, Andrew Randrianasulu wrote: чт, 19 июн. 2025 г., 18:06 Mark Filipak < markfilipak.imdb-at-gmail@ffmpeg.org>: On 19/06/2025 10.42, BloodMan wrote: If someone pays a lot for the system, wants to have a sugary interface of the system and programs, at the same

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Carl Zwanzig
On 6/19/2025 3:37 AM, Mark Filipak wrote: I suggest you reread the basic ffmpeg manual at https:// www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg.html; it's always good to reread the basics, sometimes useful things pop out afresh. Take a pill, Z. what is that supposed to mean? You folks will never understand a user

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Andrew Randrianasulu
чт, 19 июн. 2025 г., 18:06 Mark Filipak < markfilipak.imdb-at-gmail@ffmpeg.org>: > On 19/06/2025 10.42, BloodMan wrote: > > Hi, > > > > W dniu 2025-06-19 o 16:03, Mark Filipak pisze: > >> Linux is FOSS. There are no interface standards in Linux because no one > is paid to establish and > >> en

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 10.36, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 14:45, Mark Filipak wrote: On 19/06/2025 08.51, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 11:57, Paul B Mahol wrote: Fixed: https://github.com/librempeg/librempeg/commit/d572c8dae396fdcb719b030faafdc036104ae94d Kudos for taking

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 10.42, BloodMan wrote: Hi, W dniu 2025-06-19 o 16:03, Mark Filipak pisze: Linux is FOSS. There are no interface standards in Linux because no one is paid to establish and enforce standards. The result is programs that don't interoperate -- Hell, Linux applications don't even have

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread BloodMan
Hi, W dniu 2025-06-19 o 16:03, Mark Filipak pisze: Linux is FOSS. There are no interface standards in Linux because no one is paid to establish and enforce standards. The result is programs that don't interoperate -- Hell, Linux applications don't even have consistent font sizes. You use arg

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Rob Hallam
On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 14:45, Mark Filipak wrote: > > On 19/06/2025 08.51, Rob Hallam wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 11:57, Paul B Mahol > > wrote: > >> Fixed: > >> https://github.com/librempeg/librempeg/commit/d572c8dae396fdcb719b030faafdc036104ae94d > > > > Kudos for taking the time to find

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 10.18, Paul B Mahol wrote:> > FFmpeg is more than just CLI tools. It is? What more is there, Paul? "Just": I'm not saying that FFmpeg is trivial. FFmpeg is definitely _not_ trivial. Regards, Mark. ___ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-use

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Paul B Mahol
On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 2:16 PM Mark Filipak < markfilipak.imdb-at-gmail@ffmpeg.org> wrote: > On 19/06/2025 10.08, Reindl Harald wrote: > > > > Am 19.06.25 um 16:03 schrieb Mark Filipak: > >> Linux is FOSS. There are no interface standards in Linux because no one > is paid to establish and > >

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 10.08, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 16:03 schrieb Mark Filipak: Linux is FOSS. There are no interface standards in Linux because no one is paid to establish and enforce standards. The result is programs that don't interoperate -- Hell, Linux applications don't even have co

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 16:03 schrieb Mark Filipak: Linux is FOSS. There are no interface standards in Linux because no one is paid to establish and enforce standards. The result is programs that don't interoperate -- Hell, Linux applications don't even have consistent font sizes. i switched 19 year

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 08.47, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 13:09, Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user wrote: Everything Mark is saying in this email is true. Everything? Even the trivially-disprovable-for-decades old saw about 'you can't make money writing FOSS software' ? It's bizarre that FOS

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 14:33 schrieb Mark Filipak: In fact, I am qualified. I ran projects in Silicon Valley for 25 years that's no qualification at all ___ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-user To

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 09.45, Paul B Mahol wrote: On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 1:40 PM Mark Filipak < markfilipak.imdb-at-gmail@ffmpeg.org> wrote: On topic: If the input is 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m, then the head end of the processing pipeline is also 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m. Yes or No? Some people neve

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 08.51, Rob Hallam wrote: On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 11:57, Paul B Mahol wrote: Fixed: https://github.com/librempeg/librempeg/commit/d572c8dae396fdcb719b030faafdc036104ae94d Kudos for taking the time to find and address this; it's a shame that the effort does not seem to have been ap

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Paul B Mahol
On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 1:40 PM Mark Filipak < markfilipak.imdb-at-gmail@ffmpeg.org> wrote: > On topic: > > If the input is 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m, then the head end of the > processing pipeline is also 8-bit > ybr420-smpte170m. Yes or No? > Some people never change mind, never learn new thin

[FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On topic: If the input is 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m, then the head end of the processing pipeline is also 8-bit ybr420-smpte170m. Yes or No? Regards, Mark. ___ ffmpeg-user mailing list ffmpeg-user@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-us

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Rob Hallam
On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 14:06, Erik Dobberkau wrote: > > > On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 11:57, Paul B Mahol > > wrote: > > > Fixed: > > > https://github.com/librempeg/librempeg/commit/d572c8dae396fd > > cb719b030faafdc036104ae94d > > > > Kudos for taking the time to find and address this; it's a shame t

[FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Erik Dobberkau
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 11:57, Paul B Mahol > wrote: > > Fixed: > > https://github.com/librempeg/librempeg/commit/d572c8dae396fd > cb719b030faafdc036104ae94d > > Kudos for taking the time to find and address this; it's a shame that > the effort does not seem to have been appreciated. > > Note: Th

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Rob Hallam
On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 11:57, Paul B Mahol wrote: > Fixed: > https://github.com/librempeg/librempeg/commit/d572c8dae396fdcb719b030faafdc036104ae94d Kudos for taking the time to find and address this; it's a shame that the effort does not seem to have been appreciated. Cheers, Rob ___

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Rob Hallam
On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 at 13:09, Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user wrote: > Everything Mark is saying in this email is true. Everything? Even the trivially-disprovable-for-decades old saw about 'you can't make money writing FOSS software' ? It's bizarre that FOSS is held up as an example of failure, nev

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 14:09 schrieb Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user: Everything Mark is saying in this email is true. The desperate desire of free software people for wider acceptance is fairly obvious. It is not something that can possibly happen until the world of free software figures out that the pur

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 08.03, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 13:59 schrieb Mark Filipak: My file manager and my text editor are both commercial programs. They work superbly and are well documented in English, not programmers' pigeon English. then use your file manager and text editor oh - both

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Phil Rhodes via ffmpeg-user
Everything Mark is saying in this email is true. The desperate desire of free software people for wider acceptance is fairly obvious. It is not something that can possibly happen until the world of free software figures out that the purpose of software is to do work for humans. This is currentl

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 13:59 schrieb Mark Filipak: My file manager and my text editor are both commercial programs. They work superbly and are well documented in English, not programmers' pigeon English. then use your file manager and text editor oh - both can't do complex things Codesmiths shoul

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 19/06/2025 06.48, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 19.06.25 um 12:37 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 18/06/2025 23.56, Carl Zwanzig wrote: The output -told- you that #0:2 is subtitles, so an error message containing that is probably about those subtitles. Seemed obvious to me and I don't work much with ffm

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Paul B Mahol
On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 10:37 AM Mark Filipak < markfilipak.imdb-at-gmail@ffmpeg.org> wrote: > On 18/06/2025 23.56, Carl Zwanzig wrote: > > On 6/18/2025 2:41 PM, Mark Filipak wrote: > >> Z, how am I or anyone to know what "sost#0:2" means? I don't even know > what "sost" means. > > (does that

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 19.06.25 um 12:37 schrieb Mark Filipak: On 18/06/2025 23.56, Carl Zwanzig wrote: The output -told- you that #0:2 is subtitles, so an error message containing that is probably about those subtitles. Seemed obvious to me and I don't work much with ffmpeg. I suggest you reread the basic ff

Re: [FFmpeg-user] Yes or No? About the processing pipeline.

2025-06-19 Thread Mark Filipak
On 18/06/2025 23.56, Carl Zwanzig wrote: On 6/18/2025 2:41 PM, Mark Filipak wrote: Z, how am I or anyone to know what "sost#0:2" means? I don't even know what "sost" means. (does that specifically matter? I don't think so.) After that RTFM? (I think you've used -map before so probably und