On 12.01.2007 Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jan 11, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
the main reason imo is that the change from Baroque to Viennese Classical was
more radical than any other up to that time.
Now just a pea-pickin' minute here! Surely you're not claiming this change was
On Jan 13, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
from Rennaissance to baroque (how radical was that?)
Immensely: polarization of the voices, especially. As late as ca. 1690
a diarist (sorry, I forget who) complained that he couldn't make head
or tail of a new piece because it had no
On 14.01.2007 Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jan 13, 2007, at 4:54 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
from Rennaissance to baroque (how radical was that?)
Immensely: polarization of the voices, especially. As late as ca. 1690 a
diarist (sorry, I forget who) complained that he couldn't make head or tail
On 1/11/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
quoting me:
Christoph Graupner's music reinforces this hunch, because in many
ways, his sinfonias are more interesting than sinfonias that were
being written just a few years later in Vienna. And while all the
Viennese composers get
dc wrote:
John Howell écrit:
In the very good Arts Entertainment Mozart biography, someone (it
may have been Robert Marshall) played a little minuet that's supposed
to be the earliest piece by Wolfie and said that whenever he played it
for anyone and asked them to identify it, they hazarded
On 12 Jan 2007 at 4:07, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 1/11/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
quoting me:
Christoph Graupner's music reinforces this hunch, because in many
ways, his sinfonias are more interesting than sinfonias that were
being written just a few years later
On 12 Jan 2007 at 6:56, dhbailey wrote:
dc wrote:
John Howell écrit:
In the very good Arts Entertainment Mozart biography, someone (it
may have been Robert Marshall) played a little minuet that's
supposed to be the earliest piece by Wolfie and said that whenever
he played it for
On 12 Jan 2007 at 10:46, dc wrote:
John Howell écrit:
In the very good Arts Entertainment Mozart biography, someone (it
may have been Robert Marshall) played a little minuet that's supposed
to be the earliest piece by Wolfie and said that whenever he played
it for anyone and asked them to
David W. Fenton wrote:
it was suggested that Mozart's father was the real
composer;
While Leopold was a better composer than he is often given credit for
(most of his works that are known to the modern audience are not his
best at all), he was no genius. He was a good craftsman, but
On 1/12/07, Daniel Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was going to let this pass, but although the above is the common
assessment, and probably even Leopold Mozart's own assessment, he was so
prolific that, lacking a modern complete edition, it is really
impossible to say for certain that the
On 12 Jan 2007 at 8:36, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 1/12/07, Daniel Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was going to let this pass, but although the above is the common
assessment, and probably even Leopold Mozart's own assessment, he
was so prolific that, lacking a modern complete edition,
On 1/12/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, I'm afraid not. I have the symphony series reference volume and
it explicitly says there was no thematic catalog.
I see. I guess what I remember then was a listing of the pieces that
were published in the edition with sources, and not a
On 12 Jan 2007 at 14:06, Daniel Wolf wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
it was suggested that Mozart's father was the real
composer;
While Leopold was a better composer than he is often given credit
for (most of his works that are known to the modern audience are not
his best at all), he
All this who did it first discussion reminds me of the liner notes on my
old [Johann] Strauss' Greatest Hits album from years ago where the writer
said that it's not the first practitioner whose the most important, but the
last, the one who did what cannot be bettered. Although I'm not one to
On 12.01.2007 dc wrote:
But then, why are there so many attribution problems if anyone can identify
Mozart so easily?
I am 100% certain that had he played a minuet by Kozeluh they would also
all have been convinced it was by Mozart from a late opera.
Johannes
--
David Bailey:
There's a reason that Grout's History of Western Music is sold in drug
stores under Sleep Aids rather than in music stores alongside books
such as I was Mick Jagger's Love Child.
Really? Which drugstore is this? lol
Aaron J. Rabushka
whose copy of Grout went to a student who
At 10:46 AM +0100 1/12/07, dc wrote:
John Howell écrit:
In the very good Arts Entertainment Mozart
biography, someone (it may have been Robert
Marshall) played a little minuet that's
supposed to be the earliest piece by Wolfie and
said that whenever he played it for anyone and
asked them
On Jan 11, 2007, at 2:17 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
I was referring to symphonies by Monn, Wagenseil, et al from the
preclassical Vienna period. I should have been more specific.
Well that may be the problem right there. The symphony at that period
was not *supposed* to be
Sorry about the misfire ;)
I enjoy other sinfonias from the same period or earlier (for example
Stamitz or any of the composers from Mannheim). And as I pointed out
earlier, Graupner's sinfonias are much more engaging to listen to. And
apparently his composition of the symphony was an outgrowth
On 11.01.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
I would be skeptical of this claim until real experts on Mozart's MSS
and copyists weigh in (such as Dexter Edge and Cliff Eisen). I'm
surprised the Times didn't seek comment from Eisen, who, so far as
I'm aware, still holds a teaching position in London.
On 11 Jan 2007 at 8:54, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 11.01.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
I would be skeptical of this claim until real experts on Mozart's
MSS and copyists weigh in (such as Dexter Edge and Cliff Eisen). I'm
surprised the Times didn't seek comment from Eisen, who, so far as
On 11.01.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Personally I don't think it really matters that much, I am not crazy
about Mozart's early works anyway, and if it turns out to be a
worthwile piece I couldn't care less whether it is by Mozart or not.
That's interesting. I'm not excited about much of any
As I listen to some of the early Mozart operas I am indeed impressed at the
quality of the work of such a young man/boy. On the other hand, it very
rarely transcends pleasant to get to memorable. As I listen to La Finta
Semplice, with it's Goldoni-inspired script, I find myself wishing that
Mozart
On 11 Jan 2007 at 16:48, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 11.01.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Personally I don't think it really matters that much, I am not
crazy
about Mozart's early works anyway, and if it turns out to be a
worthwile piece I couldn't care less whether it is by Mozart or
On 1/11/07, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem with pre-classical and early classical music is quite
complex. There are very good reasons why we find a lot of that music
boring today.
Could you list some of those reasons?
I've always been curious how the preclassical music
On 11.01.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
On the other hand, I do find Haydn's early music extremely
ingenious. The difference is that we don't actually know any of
Haydn's real early music (with one or two possible exceptions I
believe).
Right -- early Haydn is mature music, comparable in
On 11.01.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
I'm not on broadband so can't really do that. But I've had a change
in opinion about the Italian pre-classical composers after hearing
Ensemble 451's playing of Sammartini -- oh, boy, what a difference
from all the boring old recordings I'd heard of it
On 11.01.2007 Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 1/11/07, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem with pre-classical and early classical music is quite
complex. There are very good reasons why we find a lot of that music
boring today.
Could you list some of those reasons?
Well, the
On 11 Jan 2007 at 12:09, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 1/11/07, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem with pre-classical and early classical music is quite
complex. There are very good reasons why we find a lot of that music
boring today.
Could you list some of those
On 1/11/07, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gluck? CPE Bach? WF Bach? Boring?
No, they're not boring at all! Very talented composers, genius even!
I was referring to symphonies by Monn, Wagenseil, et al from the
preclassical Vienna period. I should have been more specific.
Thanks
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 1/11/07, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gluck? CPE Bach? WF Bach? Boring?
No, they're not boring at all! Very talented composers, genius even!
I was referring to symphonies by Monn, Wagenseil, et al from the
preclassical Vienna period. I should have been
Even as a former trombone player who was happy to find a trombone concerto
among Wagenseil's work I must say that he doesn't excite me.
Aaron J. Rabushka
whose own trombone concerto is happily available on VMM-3052
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] O.T. Mozart piano concerto (movement) discovered.
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 1/11/07, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gluck? CPE Bach? WF Bach? Boring?
No, they're not boring at all! Very talented composers, genius even!
I was referring
At 1:36 PM -0500 1/11/07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
Gluck? CPE Bach? WF Bach? Boring?
Hey, I'm bored by Mozart's piano concertos, but I don't make the
mistake of thinking that's Mozart's problem!
Someone in grad school pointed out that you have to hit Mozart
readiness. Some hit it early,
On 11 Jan 2007 at 17:20, John Howell wrote:
At 1:36 PM -0500 1/11/07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
Gluck? CPE Bach? WF Bach? Boring?
Hey, I'm bored by Mozart's piano concertos, but I don't make the
mistake of thinking that's Mozart's problem!
Someone in grad school pointed out that you have
An early Mozart Piano Concerto manuscript has surfaced in Salzburg,
along with some solo piano pieces.
Full story here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2522292,00.html
Have a great day!
Kim Patrick Clow
--
Kim Patrick Clow
There's really only two types of music: good and bad. ~
On 10 Jan 2007 at 19:03, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
An early Mozart Piano Concerto manuscript has surfaced in Salzburg,
along with some solo piano pieces.
Full story here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2522292,00.html
I would be skeptical of this claim until real experts on
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