Not knowing anything about the trumpet, the horn and Brandenburg 2, here
is one more thing perhaps worth considering:
There is an instrument now referred to as the baroque clarinet. It is
not the chalumaux, and sounds quite different. It plays in a pretty high
register. This is the
Not knowing anything about the trumpet, the horn and Brandenburg 2, here
is one more thing perhaps worth considering:
There is an instrument now referred to as the baroque clarinet. It is
not the chalumaux, and sounds quite different. It plays in a pretty high
register. This is the reason it
I have always wondered about the case of the F trumpet in the second
Brandenburg -- could this have been written for a situation in which the
strings and ww. played at a Kammerton and the trumpeter used a high
pitched but nominally Eb or even D trumpet?
Daniel Wolf
Apart from the lack of
Just find a good trumpet list and post this, if you want to hear the
sound of a can of worms opening.
Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have always wondered about the case of the F trumpet in the second
Brandenburg -- ...
Daniel Wolf
At 5:00 AM -0400 9/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Apart from the lack of surviving instruments at such high pitches (and the
difficulty of playing extreme harmonics at these pitches) analysis of the
counterpoint and instrumentation used by Bach in this work have led me to
the conclusion that
If I remember correctly, Harnoncourt did a version of the second
Brandenburg with natural horn a long time ago and even recorded it.
Just tried to find the recording in the LP collection gathering dust
in the basement, but had no luck. As I remember, it took a while to
get used to the horn
I wasn't just being funny with my can of worms answer. The theory of
horn in place of trumpet on Brandenburg 2 (BWV 1047) was presented back
in the late 60s by one scholar who had latched upon a copy of a third
generation part labeled horn. There was an ensuing squabble, I believe,
which
On 9/10/07, Raymond Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wasn't just being funny with my can of worms answer. The theory of
horn in place of trumpet on Brandenburg 2 (BWV 1047) was presented back
in the late 60s by one scholar who had latched upon a copy of a third
generation part labeled horn.
: Re: [Finale] alto as tenor? now Brandenburg 2
On 9/10/07, Raymond Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wasn't just being funny with my can of worms answer. The theory of
horn in place of trumpet on Brandenburg 2 (BWV 1047) was presented back
in the late 60s by one scholar who had latched upon
Are you thining of Thurston Dart?
Aaron J. Rabushka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message -
From: Raymond Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] alto as tenor? now Brandenburg 2
I
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Sep 8, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Daniel Wolf wrote:
I have always wondered about the case of the F trumpet in the second
Brandenburg -- could this have been written for a situation in which
the strings and ww. played at a Kammerton and the trumpeter used a
high pitched
I specifically mentioned the woodwinds; instruments have survived at low
pitches, as much as a whole tone lower than an A440, and such low
Kammertons -- for example the French chamber tone of A394, circa a whole
tone lower than A440, and in fashion through the middle of the 18th
century --
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 06.09.2007 John Howell wrote:
mostly lower than 440
Actually, many higher than 440. Weimar is a good example, and most
organs north of the Alps were tuned higher. Leiptzig,too, only it played
at a transposed pitch, making the string pitch appr. 415.
Johannes
On 08.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
Huh? what precisely do you mean that it played at a transposed pitch? What
sort of transposition would someone build into an organ, and why?
The organ was tuned to appr. 465 Hz, which works out a whole tone above
the chamber pitch (which was a little lower than
On 8 Sep 2007 at 15:50, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 08.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
Huh? what precisely do you mean that it played at a transposed pitch? What
sort of transposition would someone build into an organ, and why?
The organ was tuned to appr. 465 Hz, which works out a whole tone
t played at a transposed pitch? What sort of transposition would someone build
into an organ, and why?
The organ was tuned to appr. 465 Hz, which works out a whole tone above
the chamber pitch (which was a little lower than 415 Hz). The same
situation happened in Weimar, but here the
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 08.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
Huh? what precisely do you mean that it played at a transposed pitch?
What sort of transposition would someone build into an organ, and why?
The organ was tuned to appr. 465 Hz, which works out a whole tone above
the chamber pitch (which
On Sep 8, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Daniel Wolf wrote:
I have always wondered about the case of the F trumpet in the second
Brandenburg -- could this have been written for a situation in which
the strings and ww. played at a Kammerton and the trumpeter used a
high pitched but nominally Eb or even
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Are you saying that a performance of a Bach choral work with original
instruments and 2 singers on a part (of a work for which extant
performing parts indicate one on a part) should not merit the
historical performance moniker?
What exactly, is historical
Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler)
www.habsburgerverlag.de
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 07.09.2007, at 05:35, John Howell wrote:
... THAT is why I haven't considered it worth the
At 6:15 PM +0200 9/6/07, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
I am sure the least Bach would have told us is where he actually
wanted the full choir and where the soloists, had that thought ever
crossed his mind.
I understand what you're saying, but I wonder whether the outlook is
wrong. Perhaps you
On 9/6/07, John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I understand what you're saying, but I wonder whether the outlook is
wrong. Perhaps you are thinking about published music, but none of
this was published and (with the exception of the B minor) was always
performed with the composer in charge.
Thank you, John, for going to the trouble of quoting all of that for us,
and putting some sense back into all of this.
Raymond Horton
John Howell wrote:
Well, I've found where my New Bach Reader got tucked away, and in
rereading parts of it I have been reminded how fascinating some of
On 07.09.2007 Eric Fiedler wrote:
But you _really_ should, you know ;-) Many if not most of the problems
people seem to have with Rifkin/Parrot have, right from the beginning, had to
do with their not having read what the two have actually written. Admittedly,
at the beginning, Rifkin's
On 06.09.2007 John Howell wrote:
mostly lower than 440
Actually, many higher than 440. Weimar is a good example, and most
organs north of the Alps were tuned higher. Leiptzig,too, only it played
at a transposed pitch, making the string pitch appr. 415.
Johannes
--
On 05.09.2007 Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Well, you left out the powered wigs, then everything would be hunky dory!
powered wigs? That's a new one...
I wonder whether they would help getting that pure gut sound...
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
On 05.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
And of course that means with violins using gut strings and tuned to Bach's
pitch, correct? Lit by candles?
Not sure how the candles change the sound...
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Are you crazy? There's a huge difference, because the less you spread
out the comma, the more different the leftover keys (i.e., the bad
ones) sound in comparison to the good keys.
True, although the temperaments in use at Bach's time were probably
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
While I'm all for that, there is a major philosophical problem when
it comes to the issue of us not being authentic listeners. We simply
can't hear the music the same as they did, even when we replicate the
forces of performance as closely as possible.
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Perhaps my whole opinion on this is colored by the fact that I first
encountered the whole thing in an oral paper delivered by Rifkin in
1985, just about the time he was first publishing. I've watched his
ideas develop over the years, but there has always
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Well, we've been brought up on the idea that he wrote (or rewrote)
music for the forces he expected to have next Sunday, and with
sufficient respect for his ability that we would have expected him
to write something different for larger ones.
I've
Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 05.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
And of course that means with violins using gut strings and tuned to
Bach's pitch, correct? Lit by candles?
Not sure how the candles change the sound...
Johannes
Well, it was sort of tongue in cheek, but I'm sure the excessive carbon
Johannes Gebauer responded to a question by dhbailey by writing:
Not sure how the candles change the sound...
prompting dhbailey to rejoin
I'm sure the excessive carbon monoxide in the air from all that
combustion taking place couldn't have been too good for the singers.
I'll note that
On 06.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
Well, it was sort of tongue in cheek, but I'm sure the excessive carbon
monoxide in the air from all that combustion taking place couldn't have been
too good for the singers.
So what has changed? ;-)
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
Anybody for trying to reproduce the broken instruments from the premier of
Messiaen's Quatuor pour la Fin du Temps? Did he groove on their state of
disrepair, or would he have preferred instruments in regular working
order?
Aaron J. Rabushka
with painful memories of a bassett horn that broke in
On 9/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anybody for trying to reproduce the broken instruments from the premier of
Messiaen's Quatuor pour la Fin du Temps? Did he groove on their state of
disrepair, or would he have preferred instruments in regular working
order?
Not sure
On 06.09.2007 Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
Personally, I was persuaded that the latter is the more useful question. Whatever forces Bach may
have had at his disposal, there is no place today where the same forces can be duplicated, and I
submit that it is rather more useful to ask not Did Bach
On 06.09.2007 Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
BUT John Eliot Gardiner is going to perform the Brahms symphonies on
period instruments in a series of concerts with the Orchestre
Révolutionnaire et Romantique called Brahams and his antecedents,
recording manuscripts from Brahms personal music collection,
On 9/6/07, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have recorded the Flying
Dutchman with Cappella Coloniensis a few years ago. I think we used all
the natural horn resources in the whole region.
I'm going to buy a copy of that ;)
Thanks!
Kim
On 6 Sep 2007 at 8:00, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
While I'm all for that, there is a major philosophical problem when
it comes to the issue of us not being authentic listeners. We simply
can't hear the music the same as they did, even when we replicate
On 6 Sep 2007 at 9:39, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Perhaps my whole opinion on this is colored by the fact that I first
encountered the whole thing in an oral paper delivered by Rifkin in
1985, just about the time he was first publishing. I've watched his
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Consider present-day college student with no musical training who has
never (knowingly) heard Bach's music: will a well-done performance of
a Bach choral work with 20 singers and modern instruments any less
accessible than one by Joshua Rifkin's group, with
On 05.09.2007 dhbailey wrote:
And of course that means with violins using gut strings and tuned
to Bach's pitch, correct? Lit by candles?
No only gut strings but baroque setup and proper baroque bows, yes,
and tuned to one of the several different baroque pitches Bach would
have known in
On 9/6/07, John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As to the candles, that's part of the setting. They won't affect the
sound, but they can definitely affect the way the audience hears the
music. That's long been the case with concerts at the Governor's
Palace in Colonial Williamsburg here in
aOn 6 Sep 2007 at 19:03, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 06.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Consider present-day college student with no musical training who has
never (knowingly) heard Bach's music: will a well-done performance of
a Bach choral work with 20 singers and modern instruments any
One point worth pondering, and that comes up the minute we step away
from Bach, is that for composers with a historical consciousness one
must also consider a third issue: not just what was written and what
was available, but what would the composer have endorsed, and when?
Consider Berlioz
On 9/6/07, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So: do we play the _Symphonie Fantastique_ w. ophicleides or tubas? The
answer imo is neither easy nor obvious.
John Eloit Gardiner recorded this with the ophicleides.
Kim
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On 9/6/07, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So: do we play the _Symphonie Fantastique_ w. ophicleides or tubas? The
answer imo is neither easy nor obvious.
John Eloit Gardiner recorded this with the ophicleides.
Kim
___
Finale mailing
At 5:20 PM +0200 9/4/07, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
This source must be one of the most misinterpreted ones ever. Bach
is not talking about ideal forces. Rather he is talking about how
many _singers_ (not instrumentalists) he needs to fulfill the
musical needs of the services.
Well, I've
On 04.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
And the number of parts in the Dresden set doesn't tell you anything -
No, and I never said that. It is the number of _voices_ available in
Dresden which makes the whole thing interesting.
What I don't understand is why so many people seem to believe
On 04.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Which doesn't tell us whether or not Bach would object to having 8-12
singers, only that in many situations, the parts clearly indicate one-
on-a-part performance.
We weren't talking about what Bach wanted or objected to. That is
something which is mostly
On 04.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
It's the dogmatic limitation that has always annoyed the hell out of
me, not the assertion that the pieces were performed one on a part in
their original performances.
You haven't read it, have you? I mean Joshua's theories, not what others
have said
On 9/4/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can't apply the practices of one place to another unless there
were demonstrated connections (like shared background of teachers,
and a Kapellmeister or two shuttling back and forth between them).
There was no European or German
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
[snip]
Which I think is what Parrott, Rifkin, and now Paul McCreesh are
advocating: let's hear the music the way Bach had it performed and
according to the documentary evidence.
[snip]
And of course that means with violins using gut strings and tuned to
Bach's pitch,
On 5 Sep 2007 at 7:37, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 04.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Which doesn't tell us whether or not Bach would object to having 8-12
singers, only that in many situations, the parts clearly indicate one-
on-a-part performance.
We weren't talking about what Bach
On 5 Sep 2007 at 7:41, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 04.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
It's the dogmatic limitation that has always annoyed the hell out of
me, not the assertion that the pieces were performed one on a part in
their original performances.
You haven't read it, have you? I
On 5 Sep 2007 at 7:44, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 05.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Who made this claim? Nobody in this discussion, so far as I can
recall, but perhaps you could provide an attributed quotation where
someone made that claim.
Well, perhaps not directly, but John was
On 5 Sep 2007 at 7:45, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 05.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
I'm only pointing out the weaknesses in interpretation of evidence
that come from making claims about what was never there based on what
is now there.
Yes, but the whole theory is based on _much_
On 5 Sep 2007 at 2:45, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 9/4/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can't apply the practices of one place to another unless there
were demonstrated connections (like shared background of teachers,
and a Kapellmeister or two shuttling back and forth
On 9/5/07, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And of course that means with violins using gut strings and tuned to
Bach's pitch, correct? Lit by candles?
Otherwise we won't hear it the way Bach had it performed.
Well, you left out the powered wigs, then everything would be hunky dory!
On Sep 5, 2007, at 10:24 AM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Well, you left out the powered wigs, then everything would be hunky
dory!
And everyone not bathing very often, and syphilis, and reduced
lifespan from all manner of easily-curable diseases (nowadays)...
But I bet the music was just
On 9/5/07, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And everyone not bathing very often, and syphilis, and reduced
lifespan from all manner of easily-curable diseases (nowadays)...
But I bet the music was just grand!
Well while we're at it,how about bathroom facilities that would make
Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 9/5/07, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And of course that means with violins using gut strings and tuned to
Bach's pitch, correct? Lit by candles?
Otherwise we won't hear it the way Bach had it performed.
Well, you left out the powered wigs, then
On 9/5/07, Raymond Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Powered by ... static electricity, I'm guessing? Or perhaps steam?
Somebody had to say it.
Hehe, yes! Little steam engines!!!
;)
Kim
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On Sep 5, 2007, at 10:24 AM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Well, you left out the powered wigs, then everything would be hunky
dory!
Ooh! Powered wigs! Way cool! Did they use batteries or what?
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://www.kallistimusic.com/
On Sep 4, 2007, at 11:31 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
You said equal temperament not well-tempered. They are not even
close to being the same thing.
Oh come on. The range of possible temperaments in wh. it is possible to
play musically in every key is a very narrow one, and the difference
On 9/5/07, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ooh! Powered wigs! Way cool! Did they use batteries or what?
Not way cool, but tres cool!
Triple A cadiums in fact!
Kim
___
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Finale@shsu.edu
David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the dogmatic limitation that has always annoyed the hell out of
me, not the assertion that the pieces were performed one on a part
in their original performances.
What dogmatic limitation?
Actually the onus is on providing proof that 12-20
On 5 Sep 2007 at 10:24, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 9/5/07, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And of course that means with violins using gut strings and tuned to
Bach's pitch, correct? Lit by candles?
Otherwise we won't hear it the way Bach had it performed.
Well, you left out the
On 5 Sep 2007 at 11:46, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
I'll just stick to my desire to hear the music performed in the forces
it was played with and with historically informed techniques. I'll let
others have the other fun parts of that time, but definitely NOT for
me
While I'm all for that, there
On 9/5/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I *so* want a powered wig! But I can't decide between AC and DC...
That's what the friendly sales people at Home Depot are for ;)
Kim
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Finale@shsu.edu
On 5 Sep 2007 at 20:22, Ken Moore wrote:
David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we were just
trying to get the music performed with the forces we had.
Yet, the mere suggestion that Bach was doing the
same thing seems to be treated as heresy by those
devoted to the crusade.
On 5 Sep 2007 at 19:52, Ken Moore wrote:
David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the dogmatic limitation that has always annoyed the hell out of
me, not the assertion that the pieces were performed one on a part
in their original performances.
What dogmatic limitation?
At 06:19 PM 9/5/2007 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 5 Sep 2007 at 14:38, Andrew Stiller wrote:
Oh come on. The range of possible temperaments in wh. it is possible to
play musically in every key is a very narrow one, and the difference
*in sound* between well-tempered and equal-tempered is
On 9/5/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
but there has always been a degree of
righteous indignation in the tone with which he makes his arguments.
Oh I think this can go both ways. Have you seen Ton Koopman or Dr.
Christoph Wolff speak about this subject? I mentioned the video on
On 04.09.2007 John Howell wrote:
Which is a pretty wild leap of faith in my book. By the same logic one would have to
assume a priori that he provided his violinists with written parts meant for use by a
single performer only, so he only used one violin on each part, and that is certainly not
On 03.09.2007 John Howell wrote:
Parrott's hypothesis appears to be just that, like the hypothesis that Bach
intended his cantatas to be performed one on a part, but copied extra vocal
parts just for the heck of it!!
Not sure what exactly you are talking about, but if you are refering to
On 4 Sep 2007 at 17:35, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
You probably conduct choirs,
and because Joshua's theories rob you of the whole Bach repertoire you
simply assume there must have been large choirs?
That is as ludicrous an accusation as you accuse John of making.
The dispute is not between
On 9/4/07, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Because they were never used? Or because they got lost? Or because
they didn't need them?
By itself, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Sure it is. When someone makes the claim 16 member choirs were
performing Bach's music, you
Not to mention that often composers have to settle for what someone else
has and/or wants to give them. Example: my Psalm 19-derived motet was
premiered with a vocal quartet and organ. That doesn't mean that it
wouldn't work or that I wouldn't want to hear it with larger forces. As to
how many
And another Bach question: how often did he want equal temperament and
have to settle for anything but?
Aaron J. Rabushka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
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On 4 Sep 2007 at 18:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And another Bach question: how often did he want equal temperament and
have to settle for anything but?
That's a very easy one:
Never.
--
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates
, September 04, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] alto as tenor?
And another Bach question: how often did he want equal temperament and
have to settle for anything but?
Aaron J. Rabushka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
___
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, September 04, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] alto as tenor?
On 4 Sep 2007 at 18:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And another Bach question: how often did he want equal temperament and
have to settle for anything but?
That's a very easy one:
Never.
--
David W. Fenton
On 4 Sep 2007 at 23:00, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Really? You never heard the story about how he twitted Silbermann (sp?) by
playing in A-flat on a non-well-tempered organ?
You said equal temperament not well-tempered. They are not even
close to being the same thing.
--
David W. Fenton
Message -
From: David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] alto as tenor?
On 4 Sep 2007 at 23:00, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Really? You never heard the story about how he twitted Silbermann (sp?)
by
playing in A-flat
At 6:14 PM -0500 9/4/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And another Bach question: how often did he want equal temperament and
have to settle for anything but?
In my opinion (which seems to be under attack at the moment), NEVER
to the former, and also to the latter. He was perfectly capable of
At 11:00 PM -0400 9/4/07, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Really? You never heard the story about how he twitted Silbermann (sp?) by
playing in A-flat on a non-well-tempered organ?
Nope, but please tell us!
My understanding (from MUCH discussion on the HarpsichordList) is
that any organ that wasn't
On 05.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
Who made this claim? Nobody in this discussion, so far as I can
recall, but perhaps you could provide an attributed quotation where
someone made that claim.
Well, perhaps not directly, but John was indeed refering to the famous
document, which some people
On 05.09.2007 Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Really? You never heard the story about how he twitted Silbermann (sp?) by
playing in A-flat on a non-well-tempered organ?
well tempered is not equal tempered so you may have to rephrase your
question.
Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
On 04.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
We know Bach performed his cantatas, but do we know that the Dresden
B Minor Mass parts were used in a performance? I thought that there
is no known performance until CPE's Berlin one quite some time after
his father's death.
The point about
On 05.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
I'm only pointing out the weaknesses in interpretation of evidence
that come from making claims about what was never there based on what
is now there.
Yes, but the whole theory is based on _much_ _much_ more than that. Only
you haven't read it.
Johannes
On 05.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote:
And I have no objection to that. I only object to those who argue
that it *must* be performed that way, and that's where Rifkin was at
a while back. He's since softened his stance for political purposes,
but I still think he's very dogmatic about the
In two American choral works of the 1820s (different composers,
different cities) I have encountered alto parts that are clearly
intended to sound an octave lower than written, like the tenors.
Has anybody else ever come across this practice?
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
] On Behalf Of
Andrew Stiller
Sent: 03 September 2007 16:18
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] alto as tenor?
In two American choral works of the 1820s (different composers,
different cities) I have encountered alto parts that are clearly
intended to sound an octave lower than written, like the tenors
At 11:17 AM -0400 9/3/07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
In two American choral works of the 1820s (different composers,
different cities) I have encountered alto parts that are clearly
intended to sound an octave lower than written, like the tenors.
Has anybody else ever come across this practice?
--- G GRIFFITHS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I remember doing some very old editions of Handel (I
think it was Zadok) at
school which were exactly like this. To us
schoolkids it looked very
peculiar with the altos apparently above the sops.
I've sung from editions like that - it was strange
with the altos apparently above the sops.
Gary Griffiths
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
Andrew Stiller
Sent: 03 September 2007 16:18
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] alto as tenor?
In two American choral works of the 1820s
This is relatively common in early to mid 19th century shape note tune books.
Wade
On 9/3/2007 at 9:17 AM, in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Andrew Stiller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In two American choral works of the 1820s (different composers,
different cities) I have encountered alto parts
On 9/3/07, John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I ran across something similar in a 17th or 18th century context
(18th, I think, and English), with the soprano written very high.
Turned out that the only credible answer was to assume that it was
intended for, but not labeled for, male
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