Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread BGB
On 7/17/2012 9:47 PM, David-Sarah Hopwood wrote: [Despite my better judgement I'm going to respond to this even though it is seriously off-topic.] in all likelihood, the topic will probably end pretty soon anyways. don't really know how much more can really be said on this particular subject a

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread David-Sarah Hopwood
[Despite my better judgement I'm going to respond to this even though it is seriously off-topic.] On 17/07/12 17:18, BGB wrote: > an issue though is that society will not tend to see a person as they are as > a person, but > will rather tend to see a person in terms of a particular set of stereot

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Pascal J. Bourguignon
BGB writes: >> Well it's clear that it's not their best interest to do that: only about >> 40% males reproduce in this setup. > > it is in the best interest of those who are successful. > > if a person works in their own best interests, it may benefit > themselves, but this is not to say that it

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread BGB
On 7/17/2012 8:56 AM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: BGB writes: but you can't really afford a house without a job, and can't have a job without a car (so that the person can travel between their job and their house). Job is an invention of the Industrial era. AFAIK, our great great grand pare

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Pascal J. Bourguignon
BGB writes: > likewise, many people who aren't really programmers, but are just > trying to get something done, probably aren't really going to take a > formal approach to learning programming, but are more likely going to > try to find code fragments off the internet they can cobble together > t

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread BGB
On 7/17/2012 11:12 AM, Loup Vaillant wrote: Pascal J. Bourguignon a écrit : BGB writes: dunno, I learned originally partly by hacking on pre-existing codebases, and by cobbling things together and seeing what all did and did not work (and was later partly followed by looking at code and writin

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread BGB
On 7/17/2012 9:04 AM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: David-Sarah Hopwood writes: On 17/07/12 02:15, BGB wrote: so, typically, males work towards having a job, getting lots money, ... and will choose females based mostly how useful they are to themselves (will they be faithful, would they make

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Loup Vaillant
Pascal J. Bourguignon a écrit : BGB writes: dunno, I learned originally partly by hacking on pre-existing codebases, and by cobbling things together and seeing what all did and did not work (and was later partly followed by looking at code and writing functionally similar mock-ups, ...). some

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Pascal J. Bourguignon
David-Sarah Hopwood writes: > On 17/07/12 02:15, BGB wrote: >> so, typically, males work towards having a job, getting lots money, ... and >> will choose >> females based mostly how useful they are to themselves (will they be >> faithful, would they >> make a good parent, ...). >> >> meanwhile

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Pascal J. Bourguignon
BGB writes: > but you can't really afford a house without a job, and can't have a > job without a car (so that the person can travel between their job and > their house). Job is an invention of the Industrial era. AFAIK, our great great grand parents had houses. > I don't really think it is a

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Loup Vaillant
BGB a écrit : people need to live their lives, and to do this, they need a job and money (and a house, car, ...). As individuals, in our current society, yes. We can strive for other solutions, however. A analogy with computing would be to say people need an http//html browser to search the I