did you use print encyclopedias as a kid?
Oh yes. I especially loved #6 of Lithuanian Soviet Encyclopedia
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaizdas:Lietuviskoji_tarybine_enciklopedija_resize.jpg
- L* had airplanes and M* had automobiles ;)
B* had whales (hence my obsession with Exploding Whale
Hi!
I hereby congratulate Wikimedia Foundation switching domains from
pro-SOPA Godaddy to MarkMonitor.
Not that many people know, but MarkMonitor is ahead of the industry in
anti-piracy fight:
* They have systems to do real-time content filtering for ISPs, that
stop peer-to-peer piracy.
* They
Hi!
we recently did some practice on italian wikipedia, are we going to protest IP
legislation in US by taking down English Wikipedia?
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/disastrous-ip-legislation-back-%E2%80%93-and-it%E2%80%99s-worse-ever
Domas
Short answer: no
Long answer:
we have uneven chances for different pages to show up.
It is based on the idea that every page gets inserted into discreetly random
position in a certain linear space, so you end up with [[Poisson
distribution]], which from a distance seems to return stuff
Regardless, what's done is done, for
the moment.
Except that WMF as steward of the open information can roll any of that
blackout crap back.
Primary mission is spreading the knowledge, and now it.wikipedia obviously
fails at it.
Domas
___
The only thing we truly could do is restore read access. But if the
it.wikipedia community really wants to strike, there's very little we
can do to stop them. :)
I sure agree with that. There're plenty of ways to inflict pain without
terminating the service entirely.
Editor strike means not
Hi!
Here's the conclusion I've come to though. We need to get the software
good enough, and simple enough, that it is firmly in the background.
OK!
Mediawiki is like an old DOS computer that constantly drags you into
programing mode, particularly if you fork.
Yes, especially if you
What was it that lasted only a minute, Chris?
Vandalism, probably. I've read an article that vandalism lasts about a minute!
Domas
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Hi!
I'm told volunteers are capable of editing wiki pages and posting to mailing
lists. I haven't been able to independently verify this, though.
I'm told that some volunteers can be extremely obnoxious too.
Domas
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priority task being to get the site working again. Maybe at some time
in the future, we will have enough 24/7 sysadmin manpower that we can
respond to any unplanned downtime in the way you suggest. But we don't
have that capability just yet.
In future we will have five nines availability and
As you can see it refers to some unknown error. In this case the
maintentance was known and* pre-planned* for several days.
technically this was unknown problem :)
A lot of people were confused by the outage and the error page was unhelpful
to them. This could have been mitigated simply
Hi!
Huh? The downtime was expected during 13:00 and 14:00 UTC, or at least there
was an email warning of such things the day before... hardly unplanned or
unknown.
there's a bit of a difference between maintenance window and expected downtime
during it.
Domas
Hi!
The maintenance was planned, downtime was noted as possible. An error
message that reflects that seems, frankly, a good idea.
There're lots of great ideas around the world, feeding the hungry and curing
the cancer among them.
The response to what I thought to be a helpful suggestion in
Hi!
That's... completely missing the point. Yes the specific errors faced were
unexpected or unforseen, BUT they were a* direct result* of the maintenance
between 13:00 and 14:00. I am simply passing on the feeling of our
readership; which was that the situation was badly communicated to
Wikipedia going down without a temporary explanation page is roughly of the
same scale as apple.com going down with no explanation, google.com going
down with no explanation, microsoft.com going down with no explanation, and
so on.
WHOAH THERE IS QUITE SOME SELF ENTITLEMENT THERE.
Microsoft
Hi!
Domas, why so defensive?
I'm contrarian in this case :)
unfeasible because of the work involved, but you can probably say that
without all the combative snark.
Well, as with every downtime, there are way more issues* that end up uncovered
and have to be looked at, and yet largest
Hi!
Domas your responses are not helpful at all. You are simply stirring the
pot to no point. Please stop.
You forgot to tell if all of my responses or just some, and if there's really
no point at all, or there might be some.
Anyway, thanks for this helpful contribution!
Domas
For all we know we have servers in Hong Kong.
not that I'm aware of :)
Domas
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if this is true, then we should
implement a better solution for foundation-level discussions in other
major language families.
I nominate SJ to translate all emails. I saw him do that before, he's good!
Brion would suggest Esperanto though. You two will have to fight it out.
Domas
Hi!
I don't think any of the fundraising banners that ran made it
substantially harder to access the information that people were coming
try reading text when you got subversively blinking banner at the top of it.
:-)
Domas
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Erik,
happy new year to you and to everyone! :-)
Thanks for greetings, and even more thanks for such an effort in trying to
address the concerns.
Asking a reader to make a donation is by definition a distraction from
what they came to do.
Well, there's a single maybe he will consider
Hi!
I need not imply that the WMF depends on money.
Or rather, certain parts of WMF depends on certain amounts of money.
It's kind of obvious, isn't it?
It is not obvious how much money is urgent, more urgent than the need to read
the article.
It is not obvious how much money is so
I think that's the only possible error response that you can deliver
from a Squid ACL. But a deny_info could be useful. Maybe Domas didn't
get up to the deny_info section in the manual ;)
Would make a good joke, eh?! :)
Domas
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Like you say, though, it's definitely a technical issue to be taken up
elsewhere.
Where you will be told that this is 'working as intended'. amp; is usually
sent in URLs by broken clients, so we block them as early as possible.
Domas
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On Dec 8, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Dupont wrote:
Sounds like we need to have a notable search engine that includes only
approved and allowed sources, that would be nice to have.
Sounds like a great community project, Wiki Search!
Domas
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Hi!
Much less people notice that among the most popular Wikipedia is the only
one that doesn't sell them anything
We don't sell, we just hold reference material at ransom.
Don't be too ecstatic, it comes with a cost.
As for Alexa, it has the list polluted by multiple mega-company properties
Hi!
Personally, I think that this is a good opportunity to get money from
payed ads. It is not even on Wikimedia servers.
I don't think that any ads-supported 1:1 content mirror (I don't see much added
value atm, we have some kind of book source support already) is any good
opportunity to
Hi!
But, should we care at all if Amazon hosts 1:1 content mirror and
gives to us some money?
Maybe.
It is probably first time our content is dumped into internet by internet
property that has high(er?) search engine rankings, so users may be sent to
different experience than one we try to
Hi!
Each web server, of which the WMF has a few, collects details on the
behaviour of IPs, in logs. Those logs can be and probably have been
requested by
certain government officials, most likely for the purpose of tracking down
who is behind a certain Bad posting to a BLP.
We log
Hi!
There aren't any raw logs?
Closest to raw log we may have is 1/1000 sample, that we keep sometimes for
noticing obvious things like DDoS or software feature gone mad.
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Humans are not citable sources, per our policy.
This isn't Wikipedia, this is Wikimedia. You can cite me, if you want.
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Hi!
Go on record, then I'll cite you.
An email list is not a citable source, per our policy.
Why would I care about your policy? Which policy is 'our' policy? Why does it
apply to anything here?
However a page on the server is citable.
So put your reputation up for view, then you'll be
Hi!
It's isn't my policy, it's our policy.
Who is 'we', whom do you represent? :-)
If you don't know to what I refer, then perhaps you can read up on it.
You didn't tell what you represent and what policy you talk about, I don't know
where to read about it.
As far as citing the archives
Those with the passwords do whatever they feel like
and are accountable to no one?
yup!
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Hello,
should not web server logs (of requests) be published?
which intelligence service are you representing?
there are hourly page view statistics somewhere out there, so most of data is
already out, drilling in more would mean violating privacy.
and no, I don't see this as a per-project
Hi!
you have mentioned that provider can give logs to government, probably
also wikipedia must give its logs to government, if requested, is not
it?
Wikipedia cannot give logs to government, as it has none.
users cannot request in provider's official web forum to make dynamic
ip or nat?
Hello,
I did an analysis of advertisement space used on Google, Facebook and
Wikipedia. I measured banners first - Wikipedia had 250k pixels (okok, my
screen is large :), Google had 60k pixels, Facebook had 40k.
I applied a multiplier of 2 for Wikipedia image, because it's ability to scan
We did that with Uncyclopedia. Wikimedia hosted it until Wikia was formed.
what?
Domas
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Hi!
The privacy policy is clear. Your number of edits is public. And it can be
published in aggregated forms by other uses. And if you edit Wikipedia, you
accept the Privacy Policy. Also, on the top of the Privacy Policy page you
can read:
Foundation privacy policy is what kind of
The issue is when someone aggregates the data and associates with an
individual, and then makes publishes it. Or uses that data to make
public statements about a user.
we don't associate data with individual, we associate data with pseudonym.
otoh, whatever people talk here about
Hi, wiki-list!
No ethics here then.
Excuse me, what is your complaint?
I don't really get the point you are trying to make.
There are few simple things, but apparently you have problems to grasp them :)
1. Your readership data is not revealed to third parties. Your point if a UK
ISP
Hi!
Only wanted to notify you that the Acehnese Wikipedia
have plans about boycotting Wikipedia
Thats ACE!
Domas
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I welcome many members of the Wikimedia staff joining us in Gdansk but
PLEASE do not hide in a VIP environment like happened on previous
Wikimanias.
I hereby find this grossly insulting.
Not spending time with Gerard does not mean that someone is hiding from
everyone else.
I found staff
Hi!
I hope you mean Vox rather than Fox. I don't think Fox currently has
any connection to Deus.
Tell that to Rupert Murdoch
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On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Teofilo teofilow...@gmail.com wrote:
What would you think about an automobile repair shop, when you
discover after you try the car again that you can no longer remove the
key and stop the engine ?
that perpetuum mobile exists, I'd be grateful for it.
there're
Hi!
Yes. So the topic for a talk on the foundation list would be : should
Wikipedia stop to support older computers or older web browsers like
Internet Explorer 6 ?
Older web browsers - maybe, if the cost to maintain becomes too high.
In many cases definite answers are quite difficult, as
Hi!
What a pity they are not similar to old sewing machines, old vacuum
cleaners, old electric ovens, or old tables or old chairs.
I'm sorry that I have to say that (I really feel sorry!), but you sir
are an idiot, and that explains your old PC problem too, a bit, in a
way. I'm sorry if you
kthx
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
An important thread has been derailed by an off topic comment. For your
information, and for the somanyth time, top posting comes easy when you use
a modern tool like GMAIL. It automatically hides
Why is the team chosen to target specifically the US? I am not sure I am
comfortable with this choice.
Because in Russia team targets you :) Oh wait, this isn't slashdot.
Let's hope this is like usability project, where US-based operations are being
expanded onto other
Hello,
The question is, how do we thank the company that has everything?
We can thank them by providing better content to everyone. That is both what
they and us want.
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Hey Philippe,
That's pretty snarky, Domas. There was a legitimate question there.
:-) Did community strategy members come up with this conclusion, or you had to
involve external consultants?!
Domas
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William,
Domas, I am disappointed with the frequent disrespect with which you
treat colleagues, as exemplified by your responses here to Tyler and
Philippe.
I respect Philippe - we had lots of great time and discussions in the past -
and I hope he remembers that (including all my thoughts
Hello,
Kids at my school are criticizing the heck out of your Foundation
Good to know you have plenty of people you can talk to.
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Hi,
This is exactly what I was working on :
Where can we read more about your work?
Domas
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Hello dear people,
there's something very very very special about the video at
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/19/ctw.connector.jimmy.wales.cnn
You can definitely see that organization just had a critical shift. :-)
Domas
P.S. You look great! :)
On Jan 8, 2010, at 7:02 PM, David Gerard wrote:
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/07/wikibumps.html
Currently we're in talks with WM-DE, so they will provision some storage for
long-term archives of raw data, and we will probably add image view statistics
then. Good stuff, right?
Domas
Hi!!!
1. Php is very hard to optimize.
No, PHP is much easier to optimize (read - performance oriented refactoring).
3. Even python is easier to optimize than php.
Python's main design idea is readability. What is readable, is easier to
refactor too, right? :)
4. The other questions
Dude, I need that strong stuff you're having.
Let me sum this up, The basic optimization is this :
You don't need to transfer that new article in every revision to all
users at all times.
There's not much difference between transferring every revision and just some
'good' revisions.
The
Hi!
In cold countries, energy can have two lives : a first life making
calculations in a computer, or transforming matter (ore into metal,
trees into books), and a second life heating homes.
One needs to build-out quite static-energy-output datacenters (e.g. deploy 10MW
at once, and don't
Cool; what's the best way to observe the high water mark, and how the
systems are holding up?
it isn't 2007 or 2006 ;-)
http://wiki.wikked.net/wiki/Wikimedia_statistics/Yearly
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Hello,
Given the fact that no candidate for the board seems to have
campaigned prominently for this issue in this year's elec-
tion and it does not even seem to have been mentioned in the
two before, I do not see why the board should have decided
otherwise.
You poor souls, always willing to
Hi!
Right...where can I go to download the full history English
Wikipedia dump?
It is being done!
Still doesn't work. And yes, it needs an executive level decision,
and it
needs a kick in the ass from the board to get the executive level to
make
that decision.
That work is being
Hello Gregory,
I was sort of surprised to learn today that Mediawiki software has
had 37
security holes identified:
Why would you be surprised? It is web software, that allows _most_
flexibility for its users, you can expect most problems because of
that, especially in XSS area.
On the
Hi!
I'll believe it when I see it.
;-)
AFAICT, the dumps still don't work, and you
still haven't hired a new CTO.
Dumps work better, and there's work done to get a new CTO.
1.7
How was that budgeted? Which year? Can you point me at that unspent
software development budget number?
The
Gregory,
Here are at least a dozen for you, Domas:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensafe=offq=%22%241.7+million%22+technology+wikimedia+%22sue+gardner%22
Oh wow, I got my chance to read Valleywag, probably that should be the
major point of insight for all the efficient non-profit governance,
Hi!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I can gather: Total
spending was
$1.7 million less than budgeted. Tech spending was $1.7 million
less than
budgeted. And $1.7 million was sitting in the bank accounts at the
end of
the fiscal year.
We did not spend on hardware, because,
Hello!
And that has proven to be a huge misjudgment.
Which didn't entirely depend on us. We're a young organization, we
depend on lots of external influences. You going and pointing fingers,
without trying to understand, that there were reasons to behave in
that way, isn't constructive.
The move itself will be
newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
hasn't happened yet.
As Wikimedia (or.. Wikipedia!) office address isn't publicly announced
or published, the press release would be fantastic:
Wikipedia is moving from undisclosed location office
Gerard,
Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the
place
to announce such things.
it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not
your business :)
BR,
Domas
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Hi!
I have a question on this for the tech team: as a rule, do you have a
high turnover of volunteers on the sysadmin ...
turn-what?
Jens is building a house or something, if that was your question.
Domas
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A high turnover rate would indicate a lot of people joining and
leaving,
instead of long-term volunteers.
ah! that! no, site is operated by same people as five years ago (with
brilliant exception of search), few people left during that time,
because of various reasons.
some volunteers
Hi!
And I have to assume that's primarily due to your
efforts.
Thanks Brion. Excellent work.
Yes, thank you Brion! :)
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On Jun 30, 2009, at 3:13 AM, Aude wrote:
Henrik's Wikipedia article traffic statistics tool does not indicate
copyright or license status, so it's not clear if I can include a
chart on a
Wikipedia page. Does anyone know the license status for the charts?
base data is in public domain
Hi!
Couldn't the stats job you want run on toolserver?
Really, this isn't much of foundation-l issue - we have been
collecting and providing detailed article viewership statistics for
over a year.
People are building various applications on top of that data, like
Hi!
Are the developers lawyers?
IANAL.
A developer claiming something has an
unwanted privacy issue is very different from making claims about
something being a legal issue on the behalf of Foundation. Simply
don't
do it.
I failed to phrase what I wanted to write you in a way, that I
Hi!
I believe there was no such claim, if anything, it was pointed out
that
setting up the stats engine didn't give access to information that
was not
accessible before by the Checkusers (even if logged), and that most
fears of
data being handled by the wrong hands are mitigated by
Hello,
If I were to compile a wishlist of stats things:
1. stats.grok.se data for non-Wikipedia projects
the raw data is available, anyone can build anything like that, as
long as they have resources. I've suggested Henrik to opensource his
software, but probably it suffers from not nice
Hi!
Assuming you're not taking this out of context, please explain the
difference between how it works and my conception of how it works.
Sorry, I misread your statement. I took Volunteer admins as
Volunteer sysadmins - my greatest apology.
BR,
Domas
Hi,
On a different note, the first code to bring MediaWiki content in a
Wave
We should have fun-l@ for conversations like this.
First of all, if any of you who are interested in wave-ization of teh
internet, go join the wave community and push the standard towards
lazy on-demand
Google and its affiliates hereby grant to you a perpetual, worldwide,
non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated
in this License) patent license for patents necessarily infringed by
implementation of this specification.
so, if you want to extend the specification,
It's a great app,
look at it the other way! finally someone implemented LiquidThreads!
Cheers,
Domas
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Tomasz,
To be able bring what captivates me on a daily basis back to the
city I
was born and grew up in makes happy as can be.
Heeheee, :-) And I hereby declare my Green Wikimania, I'll carpool to
get there!
Cheers,
--
Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom
yourself, or someone else will put that into you.
Blind bigotry isn't welcome anywhere.
--
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lower - and the value of the meeting was
extremely high.
I hope this satisfies your curiosity, and also I hope next time you'll
be more polite and careful picking your words. Thanks! :)
BR,
--
Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom
be happy if you were right (and you probably are!) - it
shows, that lots of people had the motivation to come to this
excursion.
Cheers,
--
Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom]]
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foundation-l
Tomorrow is April 1st ...
what is special about it? gmail birthday?
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://www.asce.org/bookstore/book.cfm?book=7742
Per the terms of the license, the following credit appears
on page ii of the book: “Front cover photograph by Domas
Mituzas used under a Creative Commons license.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/.”
I will be happy to send a copy
John,
There are a lot of other problems, but I think most of them are
minor to
this.
Well, this looks like lawyer thing then, not overall privacy policy
discussion.
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Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom]]
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thought of subject lines are for :-)
If you tag the conversation with Cabal?, of course you will get
answers with Cabal :)
BR,
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, rather than wikitech-l
(where don't seem to be participating in too many discussions),
indicates you didn't try too much of communications effort yourself
(though, heh, finally I managed to match your face to the name ;-)
Cheers,
--
Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom
, software is doing work for
them. Some of readers end up engineering software to make it better.
When it comes to editing community, software does the work for them.
Some of editors end up engineering software to make it better.
Which community are you talking about?
BR,
--
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frustrated, or because we
want to?
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