David O'Brien wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 02:48:21PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
I don't WANT to commit without more testing and more support for the other
platforms. However I need support from the people DOING
those platforms to go further.
For $500-$600 I can put you on a 500MHz
Terry Lambert wrote:
David O'Brien wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 02:48:21PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
I don't WANT to commit without more testing and more support for the other
platforms. However I need support from the people DOING
those platforms to go further.
For
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
I would very much like to see the KSE work in 5.0, but I still
would rather delay that for a later release instead of delaying
5.0 for another three or four months.
What about the fact that the KSE work was agreed to be
committed if finished in August at the Usenix
Julian Elischer wrote:
I don't WANT to commit without more testing and more support
for the other platforms. However I need support from the
people DOING those platforms to go further.
For $500-$600 I can put you on a 500MHz 21164 Alpha.
I've invested $2500 from my own pocket
FreeBSD is going to be left in the dust unless both the SMPng *AND*
KSE projects are integrated into 5.0.
I care about having a system that works well and does what I ask of
it. What the Linux horde is doing is of little concern to me, and I
suspect the same goes for a number of other
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 09:34:06AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
Just to get this out in the public: I for one think 5.x has enough changes in
it and would like for KSE to be postponed to 6.0-current and 6.0-release. I
I definitely agree about this, 5.x is going to be enough of a major change as
I have one system that I've been maintaining/updating since the
2.X days and I feel it's time to nuke it and start over. +1 for a
non-smp system and SMP system.
That said, I think the value of having both KSE and SMPng in 5.0
is HUGE and I think there is probably a large
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, David O'Brien wrote:
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 01:17:01AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote:
Julian Elischer wrote:
For $500-$600 I can put you on a 500MHz 21164 Alpha.
I've invested $2500 from my own pocket in Alpha hardware, so others with
nice Bay Area saleries can
David O'Brien wrote:
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 01:17:01AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote:
Julian Elischer wrote:
For $500-$600 I can put you on a 500MHz 21164 Alpha.
I've invested $2500 from my own pocket in Alpha hardware,
so others with nice Bay Area saleries can too. :-)
Joseph Mallett wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 09:34:06AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
Just to get this out in the public: I for one think 5.x has enough changes in
it and would like for KSE to be postponed to 6.0-current and 6.0-release. I
I definitely agree about this, 5.x is going to
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 09:55:13AM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
Joseph Mallett wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 09:34:06AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
Just to get this out in the public: I for one think 5.x has enough changes in
it and would like for KSE to be postponed to 6.0-current
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 01:17:01AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote:
Julian Elischer wrote:
For $500-$600 I can put you on a 500MHz 21164 Alpha.
I've invested $2500 from my own pocket in Alpha hardware, so others with
nice Bay Area saleries can too. :-)
Remember that Julian is
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading
support to the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this
move, then this is the time to speak up!
At this stage a commit would break alpha and ia64 until
they are patched. From experience I can say
It seems Julian Elischer wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
At this stage a commit would break alpha and ia64 until
they are
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Julian Elischer writes:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
I say No, not yet.
Not yet, because in practice
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Garrett Wollman wrote:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT), John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Just to get this out in the public: I for one think 5.x has enough changes in
it and would like for KSE to be postponed to 6.0-current and
6.0-release.
I agree.
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
(phk-isms)
I found Poul-Henning's comments struck a chord with me. I agree with his
comments that a commit at this point would be premature, and that more
review is required. In particular, it seems like his observation that we
need additional
How about this . . .
Although not running a multi-processor machine, are there guinnea-pigs, like
me, who run current and do not mind carrying Julians work in our kernel.
As I understand there is no set time-line for SMPng integration, is there ?
I would not mind running KSE, and that only on a
* Carlo Dapor [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010827 13:49] wrote:
How about this . . .
Although not running a multi-processor machine, are there guinnea-pigs, like
me, who run current and do not mind carrying Julians work in our kernel.
As I understand there is no set time-line for SMPng integration,
One thing I forgot, sorry.
If there is a considerable amount of people, i would appreciate it if we get
the 'common' commits that go to current filtered through p4 in some way.
I would dislike it to have to resort to editing every single delta . . .
Ciao, derweil.
--
Carlo
How about this . .
On 27-Aug-01 Julian Elischer wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading
support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
At this stage a commit would break alpha and ia64 until
they
Mike Smith wrote:
I would ask that we get some indication from the IA64/Alpha/etc folks
about this *before* you commit, even if they're not ready with patches
yet, it would be wise to know how long before they would be.
see the other email discussing exactly this
--
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, John Baldwin wrote:
On 27-Aug-01 Julian Elischer wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading
support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
At this stage a
John Baldwin wrote:
On 27-Aug-01 Julian Elischer wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading
support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
At this stage a commit would break
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT), John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Just to get this out in the public: I for one think 5.x has enough changes in
it and would like for KSE to be postponed to 6.0-current and
6.0-release.
I agree. I'd like to see this stuff happen, but I think it's
On 27-Aug-01 Daniel Eischen wrote:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, John Baldwin wrote:
On 27-Aug-01 Julian Elischer wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading
support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the
On 27-Aug-01 Julian Elischer wrote:
John Baldwin wrote:
On 27-Aug-01 Julian Elischer wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading
support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
On 27-Aug-01 Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Garrett Wollman wrote:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT), John Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
Just to get this out in the public: I for one think 5.x has enough changes
in
it and would like for KSE to be postponed
At 10:39 AM -0700 8/27/01, John Baldwin wrote:
On 27-Aug-01 Daniel Eischen wrote:
I think waiting for 6.0-current is too long. Perhaps after 5.0-release.
If we get this in 5.0, we might be able to have a usable kse threads
library for 5.1 or 5.2.
I'm predicting a short release cycle
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Julian Elischer writes:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
Sheesh. Everyone is so negative! Well, I'm going to be too.
I think compared to some of the other things that have been thrown into
-current, the KSE stuff will be the LEAST disruptive. Don't go bashing
Julian for coming up with a reasoned approach to adding them, discussing
Julian Elischer wrote:
John Baldwin wrote:
On 27-Aug-01 Julian Elischer wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading
support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
At this stage a commit
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
I have one system that I've been maintaining/updating since the
2.X days and I feel it's
Matt Dillon wrote:
: and preferably on more than the i386 platform. If we are going to
: be serious about supporting more hardware platforms, then we have
: to start treating them more seriously when major changes like this
: come along. If we can't get some broader testing of this done
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 04:00:35PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote:
Matt Dillon wrote:
: and preferably on more than the i386 platform. If we are going to
: be serious about supporting more hardware platforms, then we have
: to start treating them more seriously when major changes like this
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
This does seem prudent to me. We should have at least a few more
people running these changes before they get committed to current,
and preferably on more than the i386 platform. If we are going to
be serious about supporting more hardware
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Matt Dillon wrote:
Sheesh. Everyone is so negative! Well, I'm going to be too.
I think compared to some of the other things that have been thrown into
-current, the KSE stuff will be the LEAST disruptive. Don't go bashing
Julian for coming up with a
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
At 1:49 PM -0700 8/27/01, Sean Chittenden wrote:
If there are grave concerns about having KSE and SMPng in
5.X, then why not push back the release date? The value far
outweighs the extra months needed to get it finished and out
the door,
On 27-Aug-01 Jim Bryant wrote:
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
At 1:49 PM -0700 8/27/01, Sean Chittenden wrote:
If there are grave concerns about having KSE and SMPng in
5.X, then why not push back the release date? The value far
outweighs the extra months needed to get it
At 2:48 PM -0700 8/27/01, Julian Elischer wrote:
I don't WANT to commit without more testing and more support for
the other platforms. However I need support from the people DOING
those platforms to go further.
I also want more people to try the patches. So far the only problem
Matt Dillon and
At 5:02 PM -0500 8/27/01, Jim Bryant wrote:
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
We can't just keep pushing back the release date because some
very important enhancements could be made. It will ALWAYS be
true that there are more very important enhancements on
the horizon, and you can't keep running after
:I'm not fundamentally opposed to KSE: I would like to see it in the system
:as much as you, and am quite aware of the potential benefits. I just want
:to make sure we don't go three years without a stable release to get
:there. If the answer to the questions is either fine, or addressible,
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Julian Elischer writes:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
I say No, not yet.
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
I have one system that I've been maintaining/updating since the
2.X days and I feel it's time to
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
5.0 (or whatever name it will go by) is slated for November, right?
And the plan was that a new 6.0-current branch wouldn't even be STARTED
until sometime next year, because we'll be concentrating on the
reliability of 5.x. These kernel changes have to go in before
Sean Chittenden wrote:
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
I have one system that I've been maintaining/updating since the
2.X days
: and preferably on more than the i386 platform. If we are going to
: be serious about supporting more hardware platforms, then we have
: to start treating them more seriously when major changes like this
: come along. If we can't get some broader testing of this done in
: the next few weeks,
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:34:14 -0500, Jim Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
FreeBSD is going to be left in the dust unless both the SMPng *AND*
KSE projects are integrated into 5.0.
I care about having a system that works well and does what I ask of
it. What the Linux horde is doing is of little
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
At 5:02 PM -0500 8/27/01, Jim Bryant wrote:
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
We can't just keep pushing back the release date because some
very important enhancements could be made. It will ALWAYS be
true that there are more very important enhancements on
the
Jim Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
FreeBSD is going to be left in the dust unless both the SMPng *AND* KSE proje
cts are integrated into 5.0.
Is there some reason why KSE couldn't be integrated ASAP *AFTER*
5.0 is released?
[ Personally, I'd like to see it in 5.0, but, with all the
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 10:39:23AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
I wasn't in favor of KSE's in 5.0 at Usenix, but saw that I was in an obvious
minority. I'm still in the minority and realize that and don't expect my
opinions here to make any difference. I just wanted to voice my concerns.
I
On Monday, 27 August 2001 at 18:43:13 -0700, David O'Brien wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 03:13:19PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote:
Count my vote as a go-for-it.
Blah. You're vote doesn't mean jack in this.
Be that as it may, this kind of message does mean something, but it's
nothing positive.
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 11:47:30AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
Blah. You're vote doesn't mean jack in this.
Be that as it may, this kind of message does mean something, but it's
nothing positive. We've had enough nastiness in this area already.
If you don't like what Jim's saying, why not
David O'Brien wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 03:13:19PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote:
Count my vote as a go-for-it.
Blah. You're vote doesn't mean jack in this.
Unless you are one actively working on the 5-CURRENT kernel (SMPng
specifically), or are funding 5-CURRENT kernel development; you
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 09:36:56PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote:
Actually, I'd like to see both projects proceed, but apparently what
non-core contributers to FreeBSD think doesn't matter.
It is an issue of effort and practicality. We are not talking about what
should be the default window manager
Pleas guys,
cut it out...
Take a copy, run it, beat on it..
let me know if it fails..
thanks..
(p.s. I'll need to put a new patch up because -current has changed.. :-)
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
On 28-Aug-01 David O'Brien wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 10:39:23AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
I wasn't in favor of KSE's in 5.0 at Usenix, but saw that I was in an
obvious
minority. I'm still in the minority and realize that and don't expect my
opinions here to make any difference. I
]
Subject: Re: Headsup! KSE Nay-sayers speak up!
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:43:13 -0700
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 03:13:19PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote:
Count my vote as a go-for-it.
Blah. You're vote doesn't mean jack in this.
Unless you are one actively working on the 5-CURRENT kernel (SMPng
At 6:59 PM -0500 8/27/01, Jim Bryant wrote:
Garance A Drosihn wrote:
What I explicitly said in the above
message (and which you explicitly deleted) was that KSE should
wait for a later release if the remaining work is not done. If
you have some other opinion, that is fine, but do not reword *my*
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 09:34:06AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
Just to get this out in the public: I for one think 5.x has enough changes in
it and would like for KSE to be postponed to 6.0-current and 6.0-release. I
know that I am in the minority on this, but wanted to say it anyways.
You
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 02:48:21PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
I don't WANT to commit without more testing and more support for the other
platforms. However I need support from the people DOING
those platforms to go further.
For $500-$600 I can put you on a 500MHz 21164 Alpha.
I've
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 03:13:19PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote:
Count my vote as a go-for-it.
Blah. You're vote doesn't mean jack in this.
Unless you are one actively working on the 5-CURRENT kernel (SMPng
specifically), or are funding 5-CURRENT kernel development; you really
don't have any right
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 08:03:15PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
I find it distressing that you are the *only* person doing SMPng work,
and people aren't giving your opinion a 10x weighting.
I'm not the only person, and I only get one vote.
But you are the leading expert in SMPng, and thus
Tha actual impact on John will be minimal at this time.
It'll be greater later.
On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, David O'Brien wrote:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 08:03:15PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote:
I find it distressing that you are the *only* person doing SMPng work,
and people aren't giving your
Matt Dillon wrote:
Just for myself, I am seriously considering just throwing the whole lot
(-current, that is) away and starting over from -stable. I spent 20 hours
last weekend trying to unwind even part of the VM system from Giant, and
failed utterly. I'd love to see the KSE
Like I said... Count me in...
Julian Elischer wrote:
Pleas guys,
cut it out...
Take a copy, run it, beat on it..
let me know if it fails..
thanks..
(p.s. I'll need to put a new patch up because -current has changed.. :-)
jim
--
ET has one helluva sense of humor!
He's always
I am ready to do my megga-commit to add the first stage of KSE-threading support
to
the kernel. If there is any argument as to the wisdom of this move,
then this is the time to speak up!
At this stage a commit would break alpha and ia64 until
they are patched. From experience I can say that
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