Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-31 Thread Samuel J. Greear
On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 8/21/2012 11:08 AM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, Doug Barton wrote: Neither importing ldns nor removing BIND is going to have any effect on the stub resolver library in libc. Yes it does as if we are not

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-21 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org writes: Dag-Erling, do you have a timeline for getting started on the ldns/unbound import? I imported the code into the vendor tree, but did not proceed any further as there was still no firm consensus at the time. I believe the conclusion - to the extent that

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-21 Thread Bjoern A. Zeeb
On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org writes: Dag-Erling, do you have a timeline for getting started on the ldns/unbound import? I imported the code into the vendor tree, but did not proceed any further as there was still no firm consensus at the time.

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-21 Thread Doug Barton
On 8/21/2012 10:11 AM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org writes: Dag-Erling, do you have a timeline for getting started on the ldns/unbound import? I imported the code into the vendor tree, but did not proceed any further

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-21 Thread Bjoern A. Zeeb
On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, Doug Barton wrote: On 8/21/2012 10:11 AM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org writes: Dag-Erling, do you have a timeline for getting started on the ldns/unbound import? I imported the code into the vendor

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-21 Thread Doug Barton
On 8/21/2012 11:08 AM, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, Doug Barton wrote: Neither importing ldns nor removing BIND is going to have any effect on the stub resolver library in libc. Yes it does as if we are not carefull, we'll neither have a _proper_ validating caching resolver

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-20 Thread Doug Barton
On 08/06/2012 13:23, Vitaly Magerya wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/07/2012 16:33, Garrett Wollman wrote: The utilities (specifically host(1) and dig(1)) are the only user-visible interfaces I care about. [...] ldns (a dependency of unbound) comes with drill, which is a

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-20 Thread Bjoern A. Zeeb
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Doug Barton wrote: On 08/06/2012 13:23, Vitaly Magerya wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/07/2012 16:33, Garrett Wollman wrote: The utilities (specifically host(1) and dig(1)) are the only user-visible interfaces I care about. [...] ldns (a dependency of

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-20 Thread Doug Barton
On 08/20/2012 01:55, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: We will continue to reject this until there are more firm plans, proper documentation on the security support side, which I cannot remember Simon got an answer for. I gave a clear answer. If there are any pieces missing it's up to Simon to follow up

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-20 Thread Bjoern A. Zeeb
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Doug Barton wrote: On 08/20/2012 01:55, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: We will continue to reject this until there are more firm plans, proper documentation on the security support side, which I cannot remember Simon got an answer for. I gave a clear answer. If there are any

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-20 Thread Mark Blackman
On 20 Aug 2012, at 10:12, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 08/20/2012 01:55, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: We will continue to reject this until there are more firm plans, proper documentation on the security support side, which I cannot remember Simon got an answer for. I gave a clear

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-20 Thread Doug Barton
On 08/20/2012 02:16, Mark Blackman wrote: On 20 Aug 2012, at 10:12, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 08/20/2012 01:55, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: We will continue to reject this until there are more firm plans, proper documentation on the security support side, which I cannot remember

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-20 Thread Doug Barton
On 08/20/2012 02:19, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Doug Barton wrote: On 08/20/2012 01:55, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: We will continue to reject this until there are more firm plans, proper documentation on the security support side, which I cannot remember Simon got an answer for.

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-08-06 Thread Vitaly Magerya
Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/07/2012 16:33, Garrett Wollman wrote: The utilities (specifically host(1) and dig(1)) are the only user-visible interfaces I care about. [...] ldns (a dependency of unbound) comes with drill, which is a dig-alike tool. I'd like to see us produce a

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-10 Thread Jonathan McKeown
On Monday 09 July 2012 22:53:14 Doug Barton wrote: We get it, change is hard. No, that isn't what I said at all. I was pointing out that there's some inconsistency between arguing that we need to make things more predictable for new users, while simultaneously arguing that we should remove

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-10 Thread Doug Barton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 07/09/2012 19:46, Peter Jeremy wrote: Firstly, I should note that I'm not against removing bind from base. Thanks for clarifying. I'm merely saying that users are going to need some guidance during the transition. I've never argued against

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-10 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/09/2012 14:47, Mark Blackman wrote: I never use '-t' with dig. drill *told* me I should use '-t' then completely failed to acknowledge I had done so. Have you reported this bug? -- Change is hard. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-10 Thread Doug Barton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 07/09/2012 19:56, Peter Jeremy wrote: On 2012-Jul-10 00:40:07 +0200, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: They are sufficiently similar that writing a wrapper that supports a significant subset of dig's command-line option and uses drill

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-10 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/09/2012 16:45, George Mitchell wrote: On 07/09/12 17:01, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/09/2012 06:45, Mark Blackman wrote: Indeed, 'dig' and 'host' must be present and working as expected in a minimally installed system. So if you don't like the versions that get imported, install

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-10 Thread Mike Meyer
On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 00:12:16 -0700 Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/09/2012 19:46, Peter Jeremy wrote: As I see it, FreeBSD systems fall roughly into 3 categories: 1) Client systems that need to lookup external DNS servers only. 2) SOHO systems that primarily do external lookups

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-10 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/10/2012 00:28, Mike Meyer wrote: I suspect that dnsmasq is a lot better tool for that job than BIND I think better is in the eye of the beholder, particularly whether or not the O is either small or well-staffed enough to pre-enter hostnames into the zone files. That said, dnsmasq is a

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-10 Thread Avleen Vig
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: But I think you are wrong about this one aspect of your proposed change. To discover that dig is suddenly not in the base FreeBSD system any more some day would be just about the worst violation of the Principle of Least

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-10 Thread Mark Blackman
On 10 Jul 2012, at 08:12, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/09/2012 14:47, Mark Blackman wrote: I never use '-t' with dig. drill *told* me I should use '-t' then completely failed to acknowledge I had done so. Have you reported this bug? Nope, you? - Mark

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-10 Thread Doug Barton
On 7/10/2012 4:27 AM, Mark Blackman wrote: On 10 Jul 2012, at 08:12, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/09/2012 14:47, Mark Blackman wrote: I never use '-t' with dig. drill *told* me I should use '-t' then completely failed to acknowledge I had done so. Have you reported this bug? Nope, you? I'm

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/08/2012 23:16, Avleen Vig wrote: On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/08/2012 22:43, Avleen Vig wrote: It would be silly not to keep bind-tools in base. Sounds easy, but not so much in practice. Keeping any of the code doesn't solve the problem of

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/09/2012 00:34, Avleen Vig wrote: On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/08/2012 23:16, Avleen Vig wrote: On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/08/2012 22:43, Avleen Vig wrote: It would be silly not to keep

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Damien Fleuriot
On 7/9/12 12:44 AM, Dan Lukes wrote: On 07/08/12 23:55, Doug Barton: On 07/08/2012 07:41, Dan Lukes wrote: ... Sorry, you're not understanding what is being proposed. Specifically you're confusing the system stub resolver (the bit that's compiled into libc, and used by binaries) and the

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com writes: It would be silly not to keep bind-tools in base. `host` and `dig` are very standard tools most people expect to be available in base, just as they are in the base/core/whatever of other operating systems. We should definitely have an implementation of

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com writes: As bind-tools and BIND (the resolver) as separate, why not just leave bind-tools in base? They'll work happily with unbound. The bind-tools (host, dig, nslookup) are command-line frontends for the resolver. Perhaps what you are trying to say is that they are

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Gabor Kovesdan ga...@freebsd.org writes: Other than the functionality, when we replace something, it is also important to do some benchmarks and assure that the performance is not reasonably worse. Some time back I committed the error of not carefully pass this requirement with BSD grep but so

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Simon L. B. Nielsen
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: Unbound has different policies and release schedules that are more in line with ours. So in the short term (as in, the next few years) we're better off with unbound in the base. Where is there information about this / what

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Avleen Vig
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/07/2012 16:33, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver configuration, which I'm confident

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Avleen Vig
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 07/08/2012 10:10, Jason Hellenthal wrote: From first impression it seems that drill(1) has a syntax that leaves something to be desired like the eased use of host or dig.

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Avleen Vig
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/08/2012 22:43, Avleen Vig wrote: It would be silly not to keep bind-tools in base. Sounds easy, but not so much in practice. Keeping any of the code doesn't solve the problem of the release cycles not syncing up. And

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Garrett Wollman
On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 23:16:04 -0700, Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com said: I could care less about the resolver daemon itself, I agree with what you're saying and I don't think most end users will care about that. But getting rid of dig and host in base would be bad. I don't think it's as bad as

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Avleen Vig
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/08/2012 23:16, Avleen Vig wrote: On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/08/2012 22:43, Avleen Vig wrote: It would be silly not to keep bind-tools in base. Sounds easy, but not so

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Jonathan McKeown
On Monday 09 July 2012 09:34:34 Avleen Vig wrote: The issue is also one of barrier-to-entry. By removing `dig` and `host`, I think we're making things unnecessarily more difficult for people who don't *know* FreeBSD. `dig` and `host` a universally standard tools for doing DNS lookups. Taking

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Mark Blackman
On 9 Jul 2012, at 08:34, Avleen Vig wrote: Agreed. The idea of a minimally functional system itself might be flawed. Do you consider having `dig` and `host` essential in a minimally functioning system? I do. It's pretty f'king hard to resolve problems with installing the bind-utils port,

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Jos Backus
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] The issue is also one of barrier-to-entry. By removing `dig` and `host`, I think we're making things unnecessarily more difficult for people who don't *know* FreeBSD. `dig` and `host` a universally standard tools for

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Jason Hellenthal
On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 09:42:43AM -0700, Jos Backus wrote: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] The issue is also one of barrier-to-entry. By removing `dig` and `host`, I think we're making things unnecessarily more difficult for people who

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Peter Jeremy
On 2012-Jul-09 14:15:13 +0200, in freebsd-security, Andrej (Andy) Brodnik and...@brodnik.org wrote: Excuse my ignorance - but is there a how-to paper on transition from bind to unbound for SOHO? In particular, if unbound has no authoritative server capabilities, what suggestions are there for

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Doug Barton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 07/09/2012 13:47, Peter Jeremy wrote: On 2012-Jul-09 14:15:13 +0200, in freebsd-security, Andrej (Andy) Brodnik and...@brodnik.org wrote: Excuse my ignorance - but is there a how-to paper on transition from bind to unbound for SOHO? You

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/09/2012 06:33, Jonathan McKeown wrote: On Monday 09 July 2012 09:34:34 Avleen Vig wrote: The issue is also one of barrier-to-entry. By removing `dig` and `host`, I think we're making things unnecessarily more difficult for people who don't *know* FreeBSD. `dig` and `host` a universally

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/09/2012 06:45, Mark Blackman wrote: Indeed, 'dig' and 'host' must be present and working as expected in a minimally installed system. So if you don't like the versions that get imported, install bind-tools from ports. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Mark Blackman
On 9 Jul 2012, at 22:01, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/09/2012 06:45, Mark Blackman wrote: Indeed, 'dig' and 'host' must be present and working as expected in a minimally installed system. So if you don't like the versions that get imported, install bind-tools from ports. my DNS resolution

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com writes: my DNS resolution is broken, so my ports can't download any tarballs. In this case, I reach for dig to see which part of the DNS resolution chain is failing me. At the bare minimum, 'dig' should be an alias for 'drill', which I have to say isn't

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Mark Blackman
On 9 Jul 2012, at 22:37, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com writes: my DNS resolution is broken, so my ports can't download any tarballs. In this case, I reach for dig to see which part of the DNS resolution chain is failing me. At the bare minimum, 'dig' should

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com writes: I never use '-t' with dig. drill *told* me I should use '-t' then completely failed to acknowledge I had done so. Marks-Macbook% drill -t www.google.com [...] ;; WARNING: The answer packet was truncated; you might want to ;; query again with TCP (-t

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Mark Blackman
On 9 Jul 2012, at 23:01, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com writes: I never use '-t' with dig. drill *told* me I should use '-t' then completely failed to acknowledge I had done so. Marks-Macbook% drill -t www.google.com [...] ;; WARNING: The answer packet was

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Mark Blackman m...@exonetric.com writes: drill certainly looks like a drop-in replacement for the common case as you suggest. But if it's not called 'dig' and I've never heard of 'drill', I'm unlikely to reach for 'drill', hence the alias suggestion. I *had* never heard of 'drill' until this

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread George Mitchell
On 07/09/12 17:01, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/09/2012 06:45, Mark Blackman wrote: Indeed, 'dig' and 'host' must be present and working as expected in a minimally installed system. So if you don't like the versions that get imported, install bind-tools from ports. Doug Doug, you are one of

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-09 Thread Peter Jeremy
Firstly, I should note that I'm not against removing bind from base. I'm merely saying that users are going to need some guidance during the transition. On 2012-Jul-09 13:52:15 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/09/2012 13:47, Peter Jeremy wrote: On 2012-Jul-09 14:15:13 +0200, in

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Peter Jeremy
On 2012-Jul-10 00:40:07 +0200, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: They are sufficiently similar that writing a wrapper that supports a significant subset of dig's command-line option and uses drill as a backend shouldn't take more than an afternoon for a reasonably experienced programmer. I

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound

2012-07-09 Thread Avleen Vig
On Jul 9, 2012 7:57 PM, Peter Jeremy pe...@rulingia.com wrote: On 2012-Jul-10 00:40:07 +0200, Dag-Erling Smørgrav d...@des.no wrote: They are sufficiently similar that writing a wrapper that supports a significant subset of dig's command-line option and uses drill as a backend shouldn't take

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Wojciech Puchar
what integration are you concerned about? The utilities (specifically host(1) and dig(1)) are the only user-visible interfaces I care about. I don't see any need for there to be an authoritative name server in the base system. So long as the resolver works properly and does DNSsec

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Bjoern A. Zeeb
On 8. Jul 2012, at 02:44 , Warner Losh wrote: On Jul 7, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Bjoern A. Zeeb
On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:45 , Doug Barton wrote: On 07/07/2012 16:34, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:17 , Doug Barton wrote: Other than authoritative DNS, what features does unbound lack that you want? DNS64 as a start. Personally I would classify that as a highly-specialized

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/07/2012 19:44, Warner Losh wrote: On Jul 7, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/08/2012 01:03, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 8. Jul 2012, at 02:44 , Warner Losh wrote: On Jul 7, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/08/2012 01:07, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:45 , Doug Barton wrote: On 07/07/2012 16:34, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:17 , Doug Barton wrote: Other than authoritative DNS, what features does unbound lack that you want? DNS64 as a start. Personally

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/07/2012 17:35, Adam Vande More wrote: I am unclear on how this solves the main problem I think was stated about syncing up with release branches. I've already explained this at length in the past. ISC has changed both their release schedule and their policy regarding not allowing new

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Wojciech Puchar
line with ours. So in the short term (as in, the next few years) we're better off with unbound in the base. The ideal, long-term solution is to re-think what The Base is, and give users more flexibility at install time. Unfortunately, there is a making base as minimal as possible give you

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/07/2012 17:47, Darren Pilgrim wrote: On 2012-07-07 16:45, Doug Barton wrote: Also re DNSSEC integration in the base, I've stated before that I believe very strongly that any kind of hard-coding of trust anchors as part of the base resolver setup is a bad idea, and should not be done. We

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Darren Pilgrim
On 2012-07-08 02:31, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/07/2012 17:47, Darren Pilgrim wrote: On 2012-07-07 16:45, Doug Barton wrote: Also re DNSSEC integration in the base, I've stated before that I believe very strongly that any kind of hard-coding of trust anchors as part of the base resolver setup is

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Jason Hellenthal
On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 02:21:46AM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/08/2012 01:03, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 8. Jul 2012, at 02:44 , Warner Losh wrote: On Jul 7, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said:

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Dan Lukes
The ideal, long-term solution is to re-think what The Base is, and give users more flexibility at install time. Flexibility is double-edged sword. Feel free to replace one resolver with another resolver (but don't do it so often, please). Applications can be patched to fit new API, scripts

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Garrett Wollman
On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 02:31:17 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: Neither of which has any relevance to the actual root zone ZSK, which could require an emergency roll tomorrow. Surely that's why there's a separate KSK. The ZSK can be rolled at any time. -GAWollman

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Gabor Kovesdan
On 2012.07.08. 1:17, Doug Barton wrote: Other than authoritative DNS, what features does unbound lack that you want? [Picking up a random mail from the thread.] Other than the functionality, when we replace something, it is also important to do some benchmarks and assure that the performance

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 07/08/2012 10:10, Jason Hellenthal wrote: From first impression it seems that drill(1) has a syntax that leaves something to be desired like the eased use of host or dig. So once again, if you need the exact capabilities of ISC host and dig,

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/08/2012 10:43, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 02:31:17 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: Neither of which has any relevance to the actual root zone ZSK, which could require an emergency roll tomorrow. Surely that's why there's a separate KSK. The ZSK can be

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/08/2012 13:25, Gabor Kovesdan wrote: On 2012.07.08. 1:17, Doug Barton wrote: Other than authoritative DNS, what features does unbound lack that you want? [Picking up a random mail from the thread.] Other than the functionality, when we replace something, it is also important to do

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/08/2012 07:41, Dan Lukes wrote: The ideal, long-term solution is to re-think what The Base is, and give users more flexibility at install time. Flexibility is double-edged sword. Feel free to replace one resolver with another resolver (but don't do it so often, please). Applications

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Dan Lukes
On 07/08/12 23:55, Doug Barton: On 07/08/2012 07:41, Dan Lukes wrote: ... Sorry, you're not understanding what is being proposed. Specifically you're confusing the system stub resolver (the bit that's compiled into libc, and used by binaries) and the resolving name server (BIND). No one is

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Jason Hellenthal
On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 02:39:55PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: On 07/08/2012 10:10, Jason Hellenthal wrote: From first impression it seems that drill(1) has a syntax that leaves something to be desired like the eased use of host or dig. So once again, if you need the exact capabilities of

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-08 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/08/2012 22:43, Avleen Vig wrote: It would be silly not to keep bind-tools in base. Sounds easy, but not so much in practice. Keeping any of the code doesn't solve the problem of the release cycles not syncing up. And for the vast majority of users needs the tools we will import will be

Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/07/2012 14:16, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org writes: The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base altogether, but I have no energy for all the whinging that would happen if I tried

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Bjoern A. Zeeb
On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:17 , Doug Barton wrote: On 07/07/2012 14:16, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org writes: The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the base altogether, but I have no energy for

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/07/2012 16:33, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for unbound (and which I would be glad to assist with

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Doug Barton
On 07/07/2012 16:34, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:17 , Doug Barton wrote: On 07/07/2012 14:16, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org writes: The correct solution to this problem is to remove BIND from the

Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Garrett Wollman
On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for unbound (and which I would be glad to assist with if needed). Other than that, what

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Adam Vande More
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 07/07/2012 16:34, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 7. Jul 2012, at 23:17 , Doug Barton wrote: On 07/07/2012 14:16, Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: On 3. Jul 2012, at 12:39 , Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: Doug Barton

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Darren Pilgrim
On 2012-07-07 16:45, Doug Barton wrote: Also re DNSSEC integration in the base, I've stated before that I believe very strongly that any kind of hard-coding of trust anchors as part of the base resolver setup is a bad idea, and should not be done. We need to leverage the ports system for this so

Re: Replacing BIND with unbound (Was: Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)

2012-07-07 Thread Warner Losh
On Jul 7, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:17:53 -0700, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org said: BIND in the base today comes with a full-featured local resolver configuration, which I'm confident that Dag-Erling can do for unbound (and which I would be glad to