>I believe the simplest will be to create the VM on another machine and learn
>how to import it to the host machine.
No, the simplest thing is to open up virt-manager on the other machine, go to
"File -> Add connection", fill out the dialog to connect to the host machine,
then go to "File ->
>KVM is the underlying hypervisor here. It uses QEMU tools for creating disk
images and things, but it doesn't use the core QEMU emulator for
running x86 OSes on x86.
KVM is a kernel component, so userland processes use it for things, not the
other way around (specifically, it's a virtualization
>It would probably be more straightforward for me to use qemu directly, but as
>I already have several VMs running managed by virt-manager, I wanted to keep
>using it for FreeDOS.
So virt-install is a tool for virt-manager, but I don't think I've ever used it
directly (there's a good
>KVM/qemu as presented by virt-manager/virsh does something funny with the
>config of the VM. After initial boot it’ll “forget” about the CDROM.
I think what's happening is that it detaches the disk image if the virtual CD
drive receives an eject command. On real hardware, if the software
>*I'll note that I don't see the same pre-installed OS options when I click on
>the "HP Zbook Fury 17.8 G8" in the article. I only see "Windows 11 Pro,"
>"Windows 10 Pro," "Windows 11 Home," and "Ubuntu Linux 20.04." So either HP
>has changed it, or the "FreeDOS" option is not available in the
The issue is memory-mapped hardware. Any hardware that exposes configuration
resisters or data buffers on the main address bus ends up taking a block of
physical address space that could be used by RAM. If your CPU, motherboard,
and/or OS can't deal with physical addresses wider than 32 bits,
5 in NTVDM. Maybe he ran the FreeDOS installer
and managed to pull in components of FreeDOS, but unless he's using an emulator
or VM, I agree that he certainly isn't running FreeDOS on top of XP.
Jon Brase
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, or
whether to go for strict isolation, at the cost of back compatibility.
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, Two things here:
First, I've heard rumors (possibly true, possibly just people trying to make MS
look incompetent) that MS actually lost the source code to some unspecified
legacy version of Windows at some point (has to be legacy because if it had
been a then-current main product line it
This is much more recently than I think you're thinking:
https://github.com/Microsoft/MS-DOS
Dec 24, 2021 22:42:44 Travis Siegel :
> That was caldera that released their opendos as opensource, not Microsoft.
>
> There were versions of ms dos that escaped into the wild, but it wasn't a
>
I should probably add to my previous message that I don't think that the
possibility that someone might expose FreeDOS in a business-critical embedded
system to the network means it shouldn't be maintained, just that such an
opinion isn't completely far-fetched.
They're not talking about it in the context of log4j itself, they're talking
about it in the context of other open source projects, that don't have
something like the Apache foundation behind them, that are critical
infrastructure, but have one or two maintainers working on them as a labor of
I use Gmail, got one copy.
Jon Brase
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Oct 13, 2021 23:39:17 Jim Hall
>
>
> It appears that somewhere along the line, someone (at AMD?) had access
> to the sources, probably in a larger source tree, and ran a batch job
> or script to apply the "AMD" statement to a bunch of source files. And
> that happened to catch these GPL and
capable of seeing and booting off the SATA drive
whether
it's primary or secondary, but doesn't see the IDE drive unless the IDE
drive is
primary.
Jon Brase
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Hi!
I am not sure if we have understoood Jon's question correctly.
Not so much a question just as a review of what I was able to
achieve with the plan of action Liam had suggested back in March
and the constraints existing in my configuration.
As I said, I have the most crucial bits of my
disk as a data/program disk once the drivers
are installed).
Still, despite everything under "the ugly", the most crucial elements of
my configuration are up and running with a lot more space than they used
to have.
Jon Brase
On 3/11/21 4:37 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
I do not se
On 4/29/21 4:57 PM, Jim Hall wrote:
We could bolt on a graphical desktop environment onto FreeDOS, but the
"graphical desktop" discussion never goes anywhere. Some people want
*this* GUI and others want *that* GUI. We have three graphical
desktops for FreeDOS: SEAL, oZone and OpenGEM. None are
Apr 15, 2021 1:10:25 PM tom ehlert :
>you probably meant 'OS architecture' (not CPU).
Nope, I meant CPU. You start out with an unprotected CPU architecture like the
8086. The OS is basically just a set of hardware access libraries that
applications can use or not as they wish (as they have
>Apr 14, 2021 2:00:05 PM Ralf Quint :
>And I stand by my comments that none of Windows 9x/ME is "running on DOS". I
>don't have the time right now to provide the detailed proof for that, but just
>look at the addresses of some of the DOS services before the booting of the
>Windows 9x GUI and
> Full spec of laptop here:
https://www.comx-computers.co.za/laptop-specification-sheet.php?laptop=40065
The CPU is listed as a Pentium T4500, which is a processor from 2010-ish using
the Penryn-L microarchitecture.
Intel processors in that market segment didn't have virtualization support
> Is there a reason why no such almost trivial thing exists?
both for windows and linux, less then 500 MB?
Two reasons:
1) Because a standard system utility for disk imaging exists on Linux (or any
other Unix-like, for that matter), which has been around since before Linux, or
even DOS was
external interfaces of a program, and excluding use of the
external interfaces from creating a derived work. The author of a given
bit of software could then fill those sections in with the actual
interfaces covered.
Jon Brase
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>
>>
>>> Mar 20, 2021 7:29:45 PM Adam Nielsen via Freedos-user
>>> :
At any rate, the bit I'm stuck on is trying to find out how to get so
many I/O pins from the ISA bus into the Pi. I am thinking it might
have to be done with an FPGA as many of them have enough I/O
On 3/13/21 5:42 AM, Adam Nielsen via Freedos-user wrote:
As I said before, I suspect what's happening is that the adapter
is detecting something that the BIOS is doing while trying to figure
out the capacity of the disk, and "helpfully" setting up an HPA on
the drive (and doing so so
On 3/12/21 2:59 PM, Eric Auer wrote:
Hi Jon,
actually I do not expect "drivers" like OnTrack, Ez Drive etc.
to mess with host protected areas.
It's not OnTrack that I think is messing with the HPA, it's the
SATA <-> IDE adapter. Because when I boot from the OnTrack
installation floppy, I
Mar 12, 2021 7:30:03 PM Liam Proven :
>Caveat: you might find that it only has enough tag RAM in its L2 cache to
>cache 64MB of RAM.
>This was quite common in early Pentium boxes. Finding tag RAM these days is...
>unlikely, I suspect.
I'm not holding my breath about finding RAM of any kind
Drat, sent my reply to Dennis only (again... :-/); resending to the
whole list.
On 3/10/21 5:31 PM, dmccunney wrote:
I can't agree. We are not in the single-user, single tasking DOS days
when one thing was going on at a time. At any moment, there are a
number of things going on in a current
On 3/11/21 4:37 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Also, IIUC, you are trying to access _existing_ partitions? No, I do
not think a disk manager will help you there. Disk managers bypass the
BIOS restrictions by remapping or translating disks' real values, but
they do not just fix the problem. Once you
On 3/9/21 4:35 PM, dmccunney wrote:
As a general rule, consumer machines are I/O bound, not compute bound.
The CPU spends most of its time in an idle loop waiting for stuff to
be read from/written to disk.
Actually, as a general rule, on a consumer machine, both the CPU and the
disk spend
On 3/10/21 10:50 AM, dmccunney wrote:
The fascinating bit for me is that the distinction between RAM and
disk is steadily blurring. Things like nVME make it possible to have
what works like RAM but is non-volatile storage whose content will
survive a reboot.
We are just scratching the
Accidentally responded to Liam instead of the whole list, resending.
On 3/9/21 3:40 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 at 22:28, Jon Brase wrote:
On 3/3/21 7:30 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Yes. Use a disk manager. It will install a tiny overlay before the OS
boots and that will allow you
be going that route next.
Jon Brase
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moving them over to what's
supposed to be the swap drive, but at least Linux will be able to use
the whole SSD once it starts questioning the BIOS value.
Any ideas?
Jon Brase
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>Going back to the original point, I remember finding it interesting how
>if you booted Win9x natively it pretty much took over the environment
>and DOS all but disappeared, however if you booted into MS-DOS mode and
>then ran "win", DOS was still there in the background (just not being
>used if
Accidentally replied to Eric instead of the whole list, my apologies to
him that he's receiving it twice:
On 2/1/21 7:47 AM, Eric Auer wrote:
If you have a few GHz of ARM speed, try DOSBIAN:
https://cmaiolino.wordpress.com/dosbian/
Regards, Eric
I'll note that DOSBIAN violates the GPL on
Dec 27, 2020 3:03:02 AM Frantisek Rysanek :
> On 27 Dec 2020 at 6:42, Jon Brase wrote:
>
>> OK, if modern SATA gets 75, then 25 isn't too concerning. I was
>> worried it might be more like an order of magnitude (or two)
>> difference.
>>
> Um... note that real
Dec 27, 2020 12:05:46 AM Frantisek Rysanek :
> On 26 Dec 2020 at 22:40, Jon Brase wrote:
>>
> 40 MB of RAM in Windows95 - that's something I once had in a Pentium
> 75 MHz :-)
Possibly the same model of machine, given that both RAM and CPU match, and 40
MiB is a rather idios
Dec 26, 2020 3:47:44 PM Frantisek Rysanek :
> I've noticed that you want to have about 4 times the swap space
> compared to physical RAM. This means to me that your historical
> machine is starved of RAM, and you envisage enhancing the volume of
> RAM by a quick swap space. Hmm.
> The actual
Dec 25, 2020 3:26:42 PM Frantisek Rysanek :
> A) standard desktop Windows (XP or earlier) with swapping left operational, 1
> year of lifetime sounds about right.
It sounds like you're using the card for the OS + swap, though, rather than
having separate cards for the OS and swap. My plan is
>Remember FAT16 partitions are limited to 2GiB in MS/PC-DOS.
>So, drives are limited to 8GiB.
The BIOS on this machine doesn't like partitions outside of the first 512 MiB
of the disk, so DOS is limited to 512 MiB per disk (but I'm able to run Linux
and Win95 beyond that point).
>Regarding your Linux: On a modern computer, you probably want
>to use a RAM filesystem for temporary files. But you say you
>need a lot of swap, so this is probably no option for you. I
>can predict that if your swap is on CF, your Linux will be at
>least as slow as it was with a harddisk ;-)
My
external mounting seem to either be meant to fit in
a rear PCI slot or to fit a single adapter at the front of a 3.5" bay,
but it seems like the dimensions are such that most adapters could fit 2
wide x 2 high in a 5.25" bay if there were a
One thing I'd really like to see is a single board computer that plugs into a
USB and/or SATA cable on one end and a pair of PATA cables and a floppy cable
on the other. You put a multi-terabyte hard drive or SSD (or several of them)
at the USB/SATA end, and an old PC at the PATA end, then
> Not that convincing rationale considering rather modest overhead necessary.
Recall that FreeDOS isn't just about having a FOSS alternative to MS-DOS for
modern machines (where you're really better off just using Linux and DOSBox),
or for your early-90s 486 retrogaming machine, it's also
On 3/27/20 5:34 PM, Jim Hall wrote:
As I said, I think 4DOS can fix it by removing term 2 from the license
(and possibly term 3) since that's what makes the 4DOS license "not
open source." Rex would need to agree to it, since both terms have
Rex's name on them.
An interesting idea would
and the sound API for that OS, unless you
decided to just use that API as your DOS sound API.
It's not impossible, but it would take a huge amount of work to get working.
Jon Brase
Original message
From: Bryan Kilgallin
Date: 1/19/2020 01:15 (GMT-06:00)
To: freedos-user
To expand on why CHKDSK itself can't deal with FAT32, Freedos tries to retain
compatibility with quite a broad range of hardware, including both any 8086
machines that anybody still has lying around, and modern hardware. So CHKDSK
has to be able to be able to work on 8086s. This means that it
copy on MS-DOS wasn't really meant for copying more than one file at a time
(which is why xcopy exists), and FreeDOS uses the same command line syntax.
Copy only accepts one destination file and treats all other filenames on the
command line as sources. Also, the form new\*.* will expand to all
SMB1 has known vulnerabilities, so Windows has had the option to disable SMB 1
entirely for a while and on the Linux side, upstream SAMBA recently changed to
disabling it by default. It is possible that various distros may already have
disabled it in their default SAMBA configurations.
I'm not aware that Microsoft has put Windows 1 or 2 on Github yet. They have
put DOS 1 and 2 on Github. As for Windows components, they have Winfile on
Github, as well as the old Windows console and the new terminal they just
released. All of these are made available under the MIT license, so
As far as DOS being out of the loop, I was young and not yet interested in the
technical details when Win9x (including ME) was still a going concern, but my
understanding in more recent years as to why Win9x was so unstable has been
that whether or not DOS proper was in control of the system,
of Windows completely and membership fees could be reduced or
even dropped. Maybe the source code isn't needed, maybe just the
interfaces and the design are needed.
Quoting Jon Brase :
> If you can cut a check for a few million, Microsoft might sell you
> the rights (to the components t
From their recent behavior, I think it's quite likely that there is at least a
faction within the company that thinks the hassle is worth it, and that is
quite possibly the settled internal doctrine of the company. From what I've
heard about Microsoft's revenue from Windows, they are mostly
If you can cut a check for a few million, Microsoft might sell you the rights
(to the components that they created themselves, of course, not anything they
licensed from others), give you whatever source code they still have archived,
and let you license it to the public as you choose.
If you
Microsoft *has* released the entirety of early versions of DOS under (IIRC) the
MIT license, as well as (IIRC) the old Win3 file manager, and has in recent
years been much friendlier to Open Source than in the past.
As to where the money is in open sourcing old code, I think part of it is the
unto 18.04
box then transfer the image file over to the raspberry pi. I even tried using
the FreeDOS 1.3 RC1 installer with the same results on the Raspberry Pi 3.
Both installer ISO’s worked with no issue on the Ubuntu. Next I will be trying
a different SD card. From: Jon Brase
Sent:
you get the same error?
Original message
From: Jon Brase
Date: 9/25/2019 00:02 (GMT-06:00)
To: "Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS."
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Issue installing FreeDOS on Raspberry Pi 3
Interesting, I did have a similar issue on rea
hen I exit from the installer. From: Jon Brase
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 11:09 PM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Issue installing FreeDOS on Raspberry Pi 3 FreeDOS
(x86 software) won't boot (natively) on the Raspberry Pi 3 (ARM har
FreeDOS (x86 software) won't boot (natively) on the Raspberry Pi 3 (ARM
hardware), so if you got as far as to be able to select "install to hard disk",
you must be using an x86 emulator, and, indeed, your screenshot shows that
you're using QEMU. To minimize confusion, you should lead with the
Its github page says it's a hypervisor, and in the context of your question as
to whether it supports booting an arbitrary OS it doesn't make much of a
difference, but, from what I can see it's more of an emulator than a
hypervisor. However, for the typical FreeDOS use case, an emulator is
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:48:04 +0200
Mateusz Viste wrote:
> On 17/09/2019 01:00, Jon Brase wrote:
> > My question isn't actually what packages are in base. My question is, given
> > the presence of an existing MS-DOS install, what is the minimal set of
> > packages that woul
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:18:18 -0600
st...@vwebr.net wrote:
> This is kind of a sore point when using Windows-based virtualization
> apps.
>
> Virtualbox (and I believe VMWare) support SoundBlaster 16, but only to a
> certain extent (as in later versions of Windows).
>
> They don't support DOS
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:13:42 +0200
Eric Auer wrote:
> Hi Jon,
>
>
> To answer the question which packages are BASE, check
>
> > http://www.freedos.org/software/
>
> The idea is that BASE has similar functionality to what
> you get with a 3 floppy MS DOS installation or with the
> DOS mode
t can install FreeDOS with a user-selected package set to an empty FAT
filesystem, either in a parition or an image file (let's
call the concept "supersys").
Jon Brase
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driver again, so I'm not
actually even on the network under DOS most of the time.
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