Re: [FRIAM] Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread gepr ⛧
Well, I didn't intend them to be analogs so much as 3 examples of short-sighted failures to invest in infrastructure. The point being that an investment in building codes isn't that much different from an investment in sane zoning or watershed management. We (Oregon included) often sacrifice suc

Re: [FRIAM] Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread Marcus Daniels
Glen writes: "The freedoms of the irresponsible are paid for with the obligations of the responsible ... the sick are helped by the healthy ... and the lucky (should) pay for the bad luck of the unlucky." Among adults, there's the view that irresponsibility is a form of mental sickness. And

Re: [FRIAM] Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread ┣glen┫
On 09/10/2017 10:12 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > It is not necessarily the case that `we' are a whole and must look after one > another. The population can be partitioned into compartmentalized subsets. You're conflating willing payment with unforeseen consequences. When we don't look after one

Re: [FRIAM] Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread Marcus Daniels
Glen writes: "It is not merely necessary, it is THE CASE that we are a whole and always "look after one another", in the end. The question is about when to do the looking ... before or after bad things happen." One could imagine cultures in which sick people are quickly euthanized similar l

Re: [FRIAM] Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread ┣glen┫
On 09/10/2017 11:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > One could imagine cultures in which sick people are quickly euthanized > similar like sick pets. Or, in the interest of reducing taxes or debt, that > there was refusal >

Re: [FRIAM] Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread Marcus Daniels
Glen writes: "If you're implying that the trade-off mentioned in that article is ethically sound, then I'd tend to agree." Yes, if you accept his premises, which of course I do not. Revenue is a free parameter that can be increased. Marcus From: Friam on

[FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread Steven A Smith
Glen/Marcus/et alia - I have of late, been trying to understand a little more deeply the concept of "Enlightened Self Interest", mostly as it applies to me personally, but by extension how it applies to my identity groups (family, neighbors, region, culture, nation, species, sapients-at-large,

Re: [FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread Marcus Daniels
Steve writes: "In the thread I bent/hijacked here, I would cynically claim that Marcus was trying to find relief in some of these paradoxes by gerrymandering "selfness"... and Glen holding the line on a more holistic view of systems." I do gerrymander my definition of worthwhile ideas around

Re: [FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread gepr ⛧
On September 10, 2017 12:28:41 PM PDT, Steven A Smith wrote: >it is built into us as humans/mammals/vertebrates/life-itself to be >self-centered, to look after our own personal well-being before we look to >that of others.   Our tribal/clan dunbar-number-scale affinities may cause us >to be

Re: [FRIAM] Enlightened Self Interest: was Help for texas

2017-09-10 Thread gepr ⛧
Just for a little backup: https://evolution-institute.org/article/richard-dawkins-edward-o-wilson-and-the-consensus-of-the-many/ > What prompted the 137 co-authors to respond to the Nature article was not > based on what Nowak et al. said about group selection, but their denial that > it could