Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms nov 26 consistency

Very interesting idea! I never really thought of the inflationary big bang as a behaviorist account. But I suppose it has to because it's agnostic about what's inside the singularity, before Time. And what is a singularity if not an expression of monist faith? Then after the blob articulates in

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

So, here's a question that's been percolating as I've listened to Philip Goff talk about his form of panpsychism . Is it consistent [†] for a person to be: 1) A behaviorist, 2) A methodological pluralist, and 3) A monist. It seems to me that (1) and

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Well, even here, we see the admission: "This pessimistic view, however, is not shared by everybody in the field and further re-search needed to clarify this issue." Of course, at some resolution, it's irrelevant whether the DMT was ingested, say by eating some rat meat 8^), or produced from try

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 2:34 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms Glen, The primary source of the assertion is probably Rick Strassman, M.D., a clinical psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico.

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Glen, Your question challenged the grounds on which I made the simple assertion (one that I had made many times before). Other than Strassman who directly asserts the human brain makes DMT, all the other sources seemed to take that as a given and look at other aspects, so I did to. Obviously, i

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Thanks. The evidence is still correlational, I suppose. But this article seems to provide strong evidence that rats do it: Biosynthesis and Extracellular Concentrations of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in Mammalian Brain https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w I'm still skeptical, of

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Glen, The primary source of the assertion is probably Rick Strassman, M.D., a clinical psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico. I have some other papers in a filing cabinet back in Utah that seem to take endogenous DMT as a given and then focused on why and how it got there. davew On Tu

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Russell Standish Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 1:30 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group&#x

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

I looked for some scientific evidence of this, but failed to find it. Can you clue me in to the sources showing it's made in the brain? On 11/19/19 7:10 AM, Prof David West wrote: DMT is present, manufactured, in the human brain ...

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

The Monomyth is definitely "widely found." Campbell talks about the hero with 1001 faces. There are roughly 18,000 different cultures identified (historic and prehistoric). I have no idea what percentage have a hero myth. DMT experiences are "spookily" similar. You do have a very strong sense th

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms Nick - No, Steve. Absolutely not. No Way. Whether FriAM's server or my mailer's mode of larding vs your mode of reading it, you misattribute these words to me when they were in fact Dave's... what follows *after* that, na

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 12:27:39PM -0700, Nick Thompson wrote: > > By the way, speaking of etymology, to be hoist by one’s own petard is to be > ejected from one’s own saddle by the force of one’s own fart.  Look it up. Thanks for this. I always knew that petard meant fart, since schoolboy French

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

t Steve responded to. > >   > > Nick > >   > >   Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > >   > > *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

tp://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 9:28 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms On 11/18/1

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

h Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 9:28 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms On 11/18/19 5:13 AM, Prof David West wrote: Nick said: "What struck me about them was how many of them held the view that reality was beyond experience: i.e., that our experience provid

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

On 11/18/19 5:13 AM, Prof David West wrote: > Nick said: > > /"What struck me about them was how many of them held the view that > reality was beyond experience: i.e., that our experience provided > clues to reality, but the thing itself was beyond experience.  I never > could convince them that t

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

all cultures on Earth. Marcus From: Friam on behalf of Prof David West Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 5:13 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms Nick said: "What struck me about them was how many of them held the view that reality was beyond experience: i.e., t

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

, Geertz is probably the *locus classicus* of the relativism I > deplore. > > Nick > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > -Original Mes

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

> By the way, speaking of etymology, to be hoist by one’s own petard is > to be ejected from one’s own saddle by the force of one’s own fart.  > Look it up. > And I grew up thinking it was a fancy way of saying "lift oneself by their own bootstraps" which was paradoxically both a physical impossib

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

I prefer the loose interpretation of Heraclitus' "Life is Flux, all else is Opinion".    Heraclitus was a material monist (fire being the substance all other "things" are somehow derived of...  possibly presaging the E/M unity as elaborated for us by Einstein) > My guess is you're a methodological

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

btful authorship or authenticity" is > from 1735. Properly plural (the single would be Apocryphon or > apocryphum), but commonly treated as a collective singular. > > Nick > >   > >   > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biol

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen?C Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2019 10:25 AM To: friam@r

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

My guess is you're a methodological pluralist just like the rest of us. The trick is that monism is moot. Even *if* all things are somehow organizations of experience, to be pragmatic, you have to be able to *generate* 2 seemingly different things (like your experience vs. my experience) by di

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

On Behalf Of Steven A Smith Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:56 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms I never met Hywel myself, but the stories of him are always apocryphal... someday I expect all of the stories referencing Mulla Nasruden to reappear with Hywel as th

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

ssor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen?C Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:49 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen?C Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:02 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms I don't know this Hywel person. But number of things of a type is different from number of types of thing. 8^) Unless types of a thing are also things of a type

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Oops. I meant to include a link to this: https://youtu.be/yL_-1d9OSdk On 11/17/19 7:48 AM, glen∈ℂ wrote: So, we all turn into "enlightened" people and go around mumbling "mu" all the time. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Mee

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

I never met Hywel myself, but the stories of him are always apocryphal...  someday I expect all of the stories referencing Mulla Nasruden to reappear with Hywel as the central character. On 11/17/19 8:40 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > Hywel was an experimental particle physicist and a regular Friam >

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Herein lies the monist rub. If types of things are the same as things of type, then why do we have 2 words: "thing" and "type"? Why not just have one word: "thing"? The same is true of "kind" vs. "type". Or any 2 words you might choose at random from the dictionary. So, we all turn into "enlight

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Hywel was an experimental particle physicist and a regular Friam attendee. He had been a professor at Penn and Cornell and a group leader at Los Alamos. Once he said to me, "the number one does not exist". He meant that there is nothing that is precisely one centimeter long, for example. I asked

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Yes, I meant to say including the types type. --- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Sun, Nov 17, 2019, 8:02 AM glen∈ℂ wr

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

My ratiocination:     "There are two kinds of people.  Those who believe there are an irrational number of types of things, and those who don't." > Channeling Hywel, I hope accurately: There is no irrational number of > things of any type in the Universe > > ---

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

I don't know this Hywel person. But number of things of a type is different from number of types of thing. 8^) Unless types of a thing are also things of a type. Channeling a modern teenager: That's so meta, dude. On 11/17/19 6:55 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote: Channeling Hywel, I hope accurately:

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Channeling Hywel, I hope accurately: There is no irrational number of things of any type in the Universe --- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Pho

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms

Ha! You raise two excellent points: 1) Is "a beer" a portion of a given volume or a massive noun? https://youtu.be/cf0y2pVw6Tk Or perhaps it refers to different batches, distinguished by the process (ingredients, mash, boil, distribution)? But what if you're a macro brewery and your quality c

Re: [FRIAM] flattening -isms (was: capitalism vs. individualism)

I just bought a book for a Dutch friend - 1001 Beers. On Fri, Nov 15, 2019, at 6:15 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote: > One thing the responses to your post haven't mentioned is that you flatten > (or "thin" or "reduce") relativism to its most simple form. I find people > tend to do this with pluralism, as we

[FRIAM] flattening -isms (was: capitalism vs. individualism)

One thing the responses to your post haven't mentioned is that you flatten (or "thin" or "reduce") relativism to its most simple form. I find people tend to do this with pluralism, as well. And I think Marcus does a nice job of showing that nihilism isn't as thin as we may think, either. Since