On Nov 12, 2008, at 12:03 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:
I'm not sure how much smarts I can put in an R8C/20. The biggest
available one has 64k of flash and 3k of RAM. I was thinking of using
just UDP - that gives me DHCP, sNTP, and a way to send back
measurements.
OTOH if a tiny TCP fits, perhaps
On Nov 11, 2008, at 10:56 PM, Larry Doolittle wrote:
Personally, I'm a fan of UDP, the underused datagram protocol. :-p
For instrumentation on a LAN, I have some fondness for raw Ethernet
datagrams. They won't go through a router, but that can be a good thing!
John Doty Noqsi
Looks good, but the PNG of the top is of the old design.
It looks like at least one person on google has ported Free RTOS to
the R8C, they have ethernet demos and such, happy hacking.
Steve
On Nov 11, 2008, at 8:24 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
Latest updates:
* reduced USB circuit; only used for programming now.
* full power supply (5v 1MHz switcher)
* ENC28J60-based ethernet circuit
* 8-pin header with four ADC, two GPIO, and power. The GPIO pins
double as RxD/TxD for the second
DJ Delorie wrote:
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
Looking good.
Latest updates:
* reduced USB circuit; only used for programming now.
* full power supply (5v 1MHz switcher)
* ENC28J60-based ethernet circuit
Just imagine, now you can telnet into your power meter
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joerg
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: powermeter board, with less ground planes :-)
If by circuit panel box you mean the breaker box
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Nov 1, 2008, at 1:31 PM, Joerg wrote:
At the end of the day the only thing that counts is whether it's
good enough and it looks like DJ's board should perform pretty well
now.
And yet I keep improving it anyway.
If there's one thing I've learned about working on
DJ Delorie wrote:
Ok, final layout... I hope...
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
I added a back photo, a PDF of both schematic pages (every channel is
the same, of course), and gerbers.
With help from a German NG I finally got my Ubuntu to run full screen.
Much easier on
DJ Delorie wrote:
Ok, final layout... I hope...
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
I added a back photo, a PDF of both schematic pages (every channel is
the same, of course), and gerbers.
DJ
Dang, with gmane it can take a day for a reply to show up. Maybe too
late in
Nice job. The only thing left is to decide what to do with the circuit
ground. Wherever safety regs permit I always run that straight to all
the bolts. Whatever you do never leave that floating about. Same for the
enclosure. Of course if the enlosure is plastic this doesn't matter.
On the
Could you add another regular quad or octal ADC? Or replace one of
the ADE7753 with it? That way you could hook up things like water
pressure sensors, thermistors and other things that could be useful
in correlating power usage and outside effects.
I'm already going to need four of these
DJ Delorie wrote:
Nice job. The only thing left is to decide what to do with the circuit
ground. Wherever safety regs permit I always run that straight to all
the bolts. Whatever you do never leave that floating about. Same for the
enclosure. Of course if the enlosure is plastic this
DJ Delorie wrote:
Could you add another regular quad or octal ADC? Or replace one of
the ADE7753 with it? That way you could hook up things like water
pressure sensors, thermistors and other things that could be useful
in correlating power usage and outside effects.
I'm already going to
Be careful. If for some reason the USB ground comes off and that's the
only ground it'll be anyones guess where any capacitively coupled 60Hz
will go. If it picks the data lines ... bzzzt ... poof. At least there
should be some kind of bleeder.
Thanks for the warning.
If by circuit
DJ Delorie wrote:
Be careful. If for some reason the USB ground comes off and that's the
only ground it'll be anyones guess where any capacitively coupled 60Hz
will go. If it picks the data lines ... bzzzt ... poof. At least there
should be some kind of bleeder.
Thanks for the warning.
Theoretically you could use a doorbell transformer,
Hmmm... theoretically, I could use the doorbell transformer I already
have, on that panel at least. The other two panels don't already have
that. But I need to get the data off the board and into a PC too.
For data USB needs a direct
DJ Delorie wrote:
[...]
Ethernet would be isolated but I don't know what's out there on the
market to isolate USB.
There's probably a simple radio link for the UART too. If I knew it
could get out of the metal box and across the house, I'd take the time
to figure it out. It would save
On Nov 4, 2008, at 4:28 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
Theoretically you could use a doorbell transformer,
Hmmm... theoretically, I could use the doorbell transformer I already
have, on that panel at least. The other two panels don't already have
that. But I need to get the data off the board and
Maybe it's best to just keep it simple for now. Otherwise it'll be
one of those projects that is still unfinished after Christmas ;-)
And the sooner I finish this and start saving money on my electric
bill, the more toys I can buy! :-)
___
Joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ethernet would be isolated
Hmmm... maybe I'll look into an ENCJ ethernet part; it's got 5v
tolerant inputs, is small, provides isolation, and I won't need to put
PCs at each box. Of course, this means I need to put a power supply
on the board now ;-)
I also
DJ Delorie wrote:
Joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ethernet would be isolated
Hmmm... maybe I'll look into an ENCJ ethernet part; it's got 5v
tolerant inputs, is small, provides isolation, and I won't need to put
PCs at each box. Of course, this means I need to put a power supply
on the
But a doorbell transformer is a whole lot cheaper than a PC.
Getting it into the panel upstairs might be tricky; the box is in a
finished wall. I guess I could just plop it inside the box.
And with my wife the WAF for PCs next to the sub-panels would be
pretty low.
Two are in the basement,
DJ Delorie wrote:
But a doorbell transformer is a whole lot cheaper than a PC.
Getting it into the panel upstairs might be tricky; the box is in a
finished wall. I guess I could just plop it inside the box.
Of course, the super deluxe solution would be PoE but that is a recipe
for
Of course, the super deluxe solution would be PoE but that is a recipe
for project drag because now you'd have to add a litte switch-mode
converter.
I've looked at PoE before. I need an AC reference signal anyway, I'll
just use that. I mean... I'm inside the source of power for the
house,
DJ Delorie wrote:
Of course, the super deluxe solution would be PoE but that is a recipe
for project drag because now you'd have to add a litte switch-mode
converter.
I've looked at PoE before. I need an AC reference signal anyway, I'll
just use that. I mean... I'm inside the source of
I don't know the R8C. But for other uC such as the MSP430 you can
write a little Delorie-Bootloader that works without the
manufacturer prescribed HW-handles.
Yup, the R8Cs can flash from within also. The problem is, this
doesn't let me flash it the *first* time, or debug the bootloader. So
DJ Delorie wrote:
I don't know the R8C. But for other uC such as the MSP430 you can
write a little Delorie-Bootloader that works without the
manufacturer prescribed HW-handles.
Yup, the R8Cs can flash from within also. The problem is, this
doesn't let me flash it the *first* time, or debug
Yes, you need that first-time load feature. Most folks use a header.
The R8C family has a standard header for programming, too, but adding
the $2.65 USB chip means you don't need any $150 custom hardware (the
standard debugging/flashing pod) to program the device - just a USB
cable.
DJ Delorie wrote:
Yes, you need that first-time load feature. Most folks use a header.
The R8C family has a standard header for programming, too, but adding
the $2.65 USB chip means you don't need any $150 custom hardware (the
standard debugging/flashing pod) to program the device - just a
Ok, final layout... I hope...
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
I added a back photo, a PDF of both schematic pages (every channel is
the same, of course), and gerbers.
DJ
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On Nov 1, 2008, at 1:31 PM, Joerg wrote:
At the end of the day the only thing that counts is whether it's
good enough and it looks like DJ's board should perform pretty well
now.
And yet I keep improving it anyway.
If there's one thing I've learned about working on layouts it's that
you're
Steve Meier wrote:
And our tools need to be very very very extensible so
that we can describe every thing from a high school science project to a
5 mill pitch flip chip on a flex circuit (rotated 0.63 radians).
Can PCB rotate parts by an arbitrary angle? That would be quite useful
to
Can PCB rotate parts by an arbitrary angle? That would be quite useful
to me...
Cut to paste buffer
:FreeRotateBuffer(15)
Paste rotated part
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 08:38:08 -0500, Ethan Swint wrote:
Can PCB rotate parts by an arbitrary angle? That would be quite useful
to me...
See the FAQ:
http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:pcb_tips#how_do_i_rotate_objects_by_an_arbitrary_angle
---(kaimartin)---
--
Kai-Martin Knaak
I can't speak about all regions of the country let alone the world.
but yes ask ask ask why do you do that if you use that tool
what are the requirements
I did ask today, uhm looking at DJ's clock ok yesterday. The assembly
shop had a tool that would look around under the bga...
DJ Delorie wrote:
At the end of the day the only thing that counts is whether it's
good enough and it looks like DJ's board should perform pretty well
now.
And yet I keep improving it anyway.
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/bypass-2.png
The red ground planes on the left
Eric Brombaugh wrote:
DJ Delorie wrote:
At the end of the day the only thing that counts is whether it's
good enough and it looks like DJ's board should perform pretty well
now.
And yet I keep improving it anyway.
If there's one thing I've learned about working on layouts it's that
Steve Meier wrote:
[...]
I did ask today, uhm looking at DJ's clock ok yesterday. The assembly
shop had a tool that would look around under the bga... what clearances
does that tool require? (they fessed up to breaking a few probes early
on) how tightly can I pack devices? does putting smt
nice board,
Why did you connect the vias attach to the planes with thermals
instead of a solid thermal connection?
Steve
On Oct 30, 2008, at 10:26 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
I merged the three ground planes into one, and draw AVdd from DVdd for
Why did you connect the vias attach to the planes with thermals
instead of a solid thermal connection?
Because I make my own boards, and have to solder all the vias. I'll
make them solid if I send them out to fab.
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DJ Delorie wrote:
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
I merged the three ground planes into one, and draw AVdd from DVdd for
each chip, with a 10R/10uF power filter.
There's still a big hole in the ground plane where the Vdd plane
goes, as well as all the digital signals to
Much better. If you want to be extra good provide another 0.1uF
parallel to the AVDD caps, close to pin 3.
The problem is, there's no ground near pin 3. The Vdds are all near
pin 1, and the GNDs are all near pin 10.
Might want to rotate C11 and squeeze it in between R18/C12 so it's
closer
DJ Delorie wrote:
Much better. If you want to be extra good provide another 0.1uF
parallel to the AVDD caps, close to pin 3.
The problem is, there's no ground near pin 3. The Vdds are all near
pin 1, and the GNDs are all near pin 10.
Isn't that whole outside perimeter plane GND?
Isn't that whole outside perimeter plane GND?
Yeah, but I usually try to keep the caps closer to the ground pins as
well as the vdd pins. A lot of the chips I usually deal with (like
the R8C) have the power pins near each other so you can bypass right
at the chip.
Nope. It's inside a metal
DJ Delorie wrote:
Isn't that whole outside perimeter plane GND?
Yeah, but I usually try to keep the caps closer to the ground pins as
well as the vdd pins. A lot of the chips I usually deal with (like
the R8C) have the power pins near each other so you can bypass right
at the chip.
It's
On Friday 31 October 2008 20:22:59 Joerg wrote:
Might want to rotate C11 and squeeze it in between R18/C12 so it's
closer to pin 4. But that really only matters if you expect lot of
RF from cell phones and stuff.
Nope. It's inside a metal box with all the circuit breakers.
That makes
Peter TB Brett wrote:
On Friday 31 October 2008 20:22:59 Joerg wrote:
Might want to rotate C11 and squeeze it in between R18/C12 so it's
closer to pin 4. But that really only matters if you expect lot of
RF from cell phones and stuff.
Nope. It's inside a metal box with all the circuit
Traces from the pin to be decoupled (bypassed) to teh cap should be as
short as possible and as fat as possible. Nothing wrong with making a
small plane out of that because it provides a small additional courtesy
capacitance, for free, to the ground plane below.
Comparison:
On Friday 31 October 2008 03:43:20 pm Joerg wrote:
Much better. If you want to be extra good provide another 0.1uF parallel
to the AVDD caps, close to pin 3. C13 in your channel.sch file. However,
10uF cermamics in SMT are already quite good these days, and cheap. If
you can get C13 closer to
DJ Delorie wrote:
Traces from the pin to be decoupled (bypassed) to teh cap should be as
short as possible and as fat as possible. Nothing wrong with making a
small plane out of that because it provides a small additional courtesy
capacitance, for free, to the ground plane below.
If having to switch between nozzles is a significant issue then there is
room for a new pick and place equipment company that builds a
multi-nozzle tool. In reality, I doubt that it has much of an effect on
cost.
I wonder how the throughput of the pick and place tool compares to the
throughput of
PCB's png exporter has a ben-mode option (yes, we need to rename it)
that does photorealistic output
Is there a reason photorealistic output can't work for the ben-mode
name?
Yes, name things is hard. I've gotten to the point in the Day Job
to coding the name of the project as a function
Is there a reason photorealistic output can't work for the
ben-mode name?
Well, yeah, --photo-mode would work just fine. I just haven't
checked in the change yet.
Yes, name things is hard.
That's why I name everything djfoo :-)
___
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When Squeezing parts between things, consider what happens at the
assembly stage.
And keep in mind I'm populating these *by hand*.
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On Friday 31 October 2008 08:40:44 pm Steve Meier wrote:
If having to switch between nozzles is a significant issue then there is
room for a new pick and place equipment company that builds a
multi-nozzle tool.
They do exist of course, but there maybe other reasons why
they can't be used in a
Bob Paddock wrote:
On Friday 31 October 2008 03:43:20 pm Joerg wrote:
Much better. If you want to be extra good provide another 0.1uF parallel
to the AVDD caps, close to pin 3. C13 in your channel.sch file. However,
10uF cermamics in SMT are already quite good these days, and cheap. If
you
This could create a problem with the PickPlace machine where your
board
might need two passes on the machine, increasing your assembly
charges.
But only on a vintage machine somewhere in a shed that's heated by a
rickety coal stove ...
Local CM here, where I worked at one
Bob Paddock wrote:
This could create a problem with the PickPlace machine where your
board
might need two passes on the machine, increasing your assembly
charges.
But only on a vintage machine somewhere in a shed that's heated by a
rickety coal stove ...
Local CM
At the end of the day the only thing that counts is whether it's
good enough and it looks like DJ's board should perform pretty well
now.
And yet I keep improving it anyway.
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/bypass-2.png
The red ground planes on the left side perhaps aren't
Inspection is moving to aoi automated optical inspection and flying
probe test. Speaking of which the Flying probe test needs locations of
pads and vias and are used to the pad's ascii style file. I have
actually made a lot of progress importing a pads ascii file into pcb and
once I can read the
It isn't your clock that is pulling all that power is it?
Steve M.
On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 22:45 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
At the end of the day the only thing that counts is whether it's
good enough and it looks like DJ's board should perform pretty well
now.
And yet I keep improving it
DJ Delorie wrote:
At the end of the day the only thing that counts is whether it's
good enough and it looks like DJ's board should perform pretty well
now.
And yet I keep improving it anyway.
If there's one thing I've learned about working on layouts it's that
you're never really done -
http://www.delorie.com/electronics/powermeter/
I merged the three ground planes into one, and draw AVdd from DVdd for
each chip, with a 10R/10uF power filter.
There's still a big hole in the ground plane where the Vdd plane
goes, as well as all the digital signals to each chip. There's a
bunch
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