Cliff Schmidt wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote on Monday, June 14, 2004 11:46 PM:
> > Understanding that "BEA has absolutely no intention of dropping
> > support of the XMLBeans project", do you feel that XMLBeans is ready
> > to leave the Incubator, or would it benefit from further stay?
> I think
Noel J. Bergman wrote on Monday, June 14, 2004 11:46 PM:
>> 6 BEA-employed committers + 5 independent committers
>
>> I think there is definitely sufficient community interest to keep the
>> project going; however, it would probably move a lot slower if BEA
>> were to drop XMLBeans today.
>
> Un
> > Specifically, a comment like "it is important to get out official
> > (incubation) release files soon since users and developers are
> > waiting for a release to base their productive environments on"
> > makes me nervous.
> Maybe u missed the word incubation in brackets?
No, I saw it. But I
On Jun 15, 2004, at 2:46 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Mind you, building an end-user community is not an incubation
priority. We
care about IP and development community, and the latter ought to be
able to
participate directly from source control. Specifically, a comment
like "it
is important to
On 14 Jun 2004, at 23:07, Cliff Schmidt wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see one or two quantitative rules (such as one
about independent committers to allow for vetoes)
IMHO, that would be a requirement for projects prior to *entering* the
incubator.
--
Steven Noelshtt
On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 08:46, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Leo Simons wrote:
> > Noel, have your concerns been addressed?
>
> I think so. They've been addressed in that they've been discussed. Steven
> has been watching Lenya closely, particularly recently, and seems convinced
> that there has been a
> 6 BEA-employed committers + 5 independent committers
> I think there is definitely sufficient community interest to keep the
> project going; however, it would probably move a lot slower if BEA
> were to drop XMLBeans today.
Understanding that "BEA has absolutely no intention of dropping suppor
Leo Simons wrote:
> Noel, have your concerns been addressed?
I think so. They've been addressed in that they've been discussed. Steven
has been watching Lenya closely, particularly recently, and seems convinced
that there has been a sea change in that community. Whether or not it
sticks remains
Cliff Schmidt wrote:
> I think the problem we are faced with is determining how to define
> a "healthy community" when used as a criterion for exiting the
> incubator.
I'm perfectly comfortable with adopting Justice Stewart's famous comment
when it comes to defining a healthy ASF community, rathe
Frankly: it is because of this apparent shift in attitude that I'm
feeling Lenya is finally getting ready.
yeah, baby, yeah! Let's add checkmarks next to:
# Demonstrate ability to tolerate and resolve conflict within the
community.
# Release plans are developed and excuted in public by the
Personally, I'd like to see one or two quantitative rules (such as one
about independent committers to allow for vetoes) and then leave the
rest
up to a voting body that will evaluate graduation against some general
guidelines. I also think the voting body should be the PPMC, which is
made up of
Noel J. Bergman wrote on Monday, June 14, 2004 12:14 PM:
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> Leo Simons wrote:
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> I have no idea where that 50% stuff came from.
me neither! But I figure it was added for /some/ reason :-D
>>>
>>> IMO, ther
Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Leo Simons wrote:
> > > Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> > > > I have no idea where that 50% stuff came from.
> > >
> > > me neither! But I figure it was added for /some/ reason :-D
> >
> > IMO, there ought to be a sufficient independent community such that
Steven Noels wrote:
On 14 Jun 2004, at 14:29, Michael Wechner wrote:
I am not sure about this. I think it would be better if people
would view "us" as individuals. I try to do so in the case
of other projects with various companies involved, and I think
it works well, at least for myself.
I unders
On 14 Jun 2004, at 14:29, Michael Wechner wrote:
I am not sure about this. I think it would be better if people
would view "us" as individuals. I try to do so in the case
of other projects with various companies involved, and I think
it works well, at least for myself.
I understand your subtle hint
On Jun 13, 2004, at 7:45 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Leo Simons wrote:
Roy T. Fielding wrote on Friday, June 11, 2004 2:24 PM:
I have no idea where that 50% stuff came from.
me neither! But I figure it was added for /some/ reason :-D
hmm. Do you have an opinion?
IMO, there ought to be a sufficient
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Bad code makes good communities.
For those who are not subscribed to lenya-dev: Not everyone there does agree
with that view (I do not).
Andreas
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additio
Leo Simons wrote:
As a general note I would like to say, that future concerns should be
addressed to individuals and not to Wyona as a company.
Well in some cases it /is/ relevant that a large part of lenya
individuals are wyona employees. While its a task of lenya (not
individuals there; the r
Steven Noels wrote:
On 14 Jun 2004, at 12:02, Michael Wechner wrote:
Of course not, and I hope I've been careful enough to talk only from
my own private perception - something I can and will not change even
if I know the people behind the voices on the mailing lists.
I think it's necessary that
Steven Noels wrote:
I think it is only decent to expect that developers of incubating
projects are subscribed to the incubator mailing list and have an
interest in the overall incubation process.
agreed
Part of the little things I did during this incubation is proxying
back- and forward, and th
On 14 Jun 2004, at 13:43, Leo Simons wrote:
Also I think it would be of great help if issues are being sent to
the Lenya
community directly and or the individuals involved.
duly noted, and lenya-dev added back to CC list. Guys, you may have
missed some useful bits of info. Please go read recent
Michael Wechner wrote:
Leo Simons wrote:
In this case, Noel has raised some perfectly valid concerns about
files living on http://www.apache.org/dist/ without a PMC putting them
there (which is a *big thing*, for legal and other reasons). If I were
lenya, I wouldn't complain about constraints,
On 14 Jun 2004, at 12:02, Michael Wechner wrote:
Steven Noels wrote:
Lenya has an awkward history IMHO. It has been force-fed into the
bowls of the ASF upon the idea that a community was more important
than code, and because of pet-peeves of people: the ASF needed a CMS
project, and Lenya would
On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 01:14, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Steven,
>
> I am having some difficulty reconciling some of your comments, so please
> take the time to clarify for my (and judging from Gianugo Rabellino's
> comments, that of others) benefit.
>
> Fair warning: this message is likely to come
Leo Simons wrote:
In this case, Noel has raised some perfectly valid concerns about
files living on http://www.apache.org/dist/ without a PMC putting them
there (which is a *big thing*, for legal and other reasons). If I were
lenya, I wouldn't complain about constraints, but just address those
Steven Noels wrote:
Lenya has an awkward history IMHO. It has been force-fed into the
bowls of the ASF upon the idea that a community was more important
than code, and because of pet-peeves of people: the ASF needed a CMS
project, and Lenya would be a community seed for that - regardless of
the
Hi Andreas!
Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
I think that it should be the task of the Apache Incubator to help exiting the
incubator. It should not try to artificially block releases.
actually, the task of the incubator is to help projects and people find
their place in the asf whilst simultaneously prote
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
So please explain why we should have a incubator release while there are still
so many questions regarding the viability of the community?
IMHO lenya making this release (according to the rules set for it) is
part of an ongoing effort by lenya to make the community more "via
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
[...]
Great, but I'm still trying to
understand why there is a need to put out a distribution rather than put all
of the energy into helping Lenya conclude incubation and then release.
IMHO a Lenya release should be pushed out as quickly as possible,
*including bugs*. Bad
On 14 Jun 2004, at 01:14, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I am having some difficulty reconciling some of your comments, so
please
take the time to clarify for my (and judging from Gianugo Rabellino's
comments, that of others) benefit.
I gather so, and I think I might have collapsed too many orthogonal
re
Noel J. Bergman wrote on Sunday, June 13, 2004 4:31 PM:
> Cliff Schmidt wrote:
>> Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>>> Leo Simons wrote:
[is the rule that a project just needs 3 independent committers, or
is there an additional rule that no more than 50% of the committers
must be part of a si
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> why is there an "urgent need for release"? And
> why release first, exit later? Why not get
> cleaned up, exit and then have a real release? Personally, I suspect that
> the "ability" to do the aforementioned "releases" has been a factor
> underlying the lack of impetus
Leo Simons wrote:
> Roy T. Fielding wrote on Friday, June 11, 2004 2:24 PM:
>>I have no idea where that 50% stuff came from.
> me neither! But I figure it was added for /some/ reason :-D
> hmm. Do you have an opinion?
IMO, there ought to be a sufficient independent community such that if
commerci
Cliff Schmidt wrote:
> Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> > Leo Simons wrote:
> > > [is the rule that a project just needs 3 independent committers, or
> > > is there an additional rule that no more than 50% of the committers
> > > must be part of a single company?]
> > >
> > > IIRC that 50% rule applies, bu
Steven,
I am having some difficulty reconciling some of your comments, so please
take the time to clarify for my (and judging from Gianugo Rabellino's
comments, that of others) benefit.
Fair warning: this message is likely to come across as harsh. That is NOT
directed at you. Nor at any other i
Cliff Schmidt wrote:
Roy T. Fielding wrote on Friday, June 11, 2004 2:24 PM:
On Friday, June 11, 2004, at 04:01 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
[is the rule that a project just needs 3 independent committers, or
is there an additional rule that no more than 50% of the committers
must be part of a single com
On Jun 11, 2004, at 4:33 PM, Steven Noels wrote:
What is your take on the readiness of Lenya to leave the Incubator,
and on
the question of putting out a milestone? Just as a reminder, the
distribution would have to be tagged as an incubator distribution,
not an
ASF release.
(soapbox-mode)
My t
Roy T. Fielding wrote on Friday, June 11, 2004 2:24 PM:
> On Friday, June 11, 2004, at 04:01 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
>
>> [is the rule that a project just needs 3 independent committers, or
>> is there an additional rule that no more than 50% of the committers
>> must be part of a single company?]
On Friday, June 11, 2004, at 04:01 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
[is the rule that a project just needs 3 independent committers, or is
there an additional rule that no more than 50% of the committers must
be part of a single company?]
IIRC that 50% rule applies, but IANAL. Roy, Nicola?
I have no idea
On 11 Jun 2004, at 14:13, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
What is your take on the readiness of Lenya to leave the Incubator,
and on
the question of putting out a milestone? Just as a reminder, the
distribution would have to be tagged as an incubator distribution, not
an
ASF release.
(soapbox-mode)
My ta
Steven,
> If the community is able to show that Lenya can evolve freely, untied
> from the bounds with Wyona, the Lenya community project can ask for
> incubation exit.
>
> As for my personal IMHO, I think Lenya has been residing in the
> incubator for much too long.
What is your take on the read
[is the rule that a project just needs 3 independent committers, or is
there an additional rule that no more than 50% of the committers must be
part of a single company?]
IIRC that 50% rule applies, but IANAL. Roy, Nicola?
Rolf Kulemann wrote:
On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 12:11, Gregor J. Rothfuss wrot
On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 12:11, Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
> > "No single organization supplies more than 50% of the active committers
> > (must be at least 3 independent committers)"
> >
> > Ok, we have 3 independent but in total we are 10.
> > That means wyona supplies
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