MAIL PROTECTED]>,
BLU Users' Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Plea for help: The detriment of using Microsoft products
>
> What I am saying, and I think this discussion has exceeded the bounds of
> general interest to list subscribers, is that there is a diffe
On Thu, 18 May 2000, Mike Bilow wrote:
> This has little or nothing to do with India in particular. The gist of my
> statements was (1) the whole purpose of CMM5 in practice is to satisfy US
> defense contracts for critical systems software that runs things like
> military aircraft, and (2) the
This has little or nothing to do with India in particular. The gist of my
statements was (1) the whole purpose of CMM5 in practice is to satisfy US
defense contracts for critical systems software that runs things like
military aircraft, and (2) the US does not contract out the development of
crit
In a message dated: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:51:22 EDT
"Kenneth E. Lussier" said:
>"David P. Greenberg" wrote:
>
>> Yes, um sure, uh fix it ,right. I don't think I know anybody who has the
>> slightest idea what to do with source code. My car came with a transmission,
>> but if it doesn't work, I dou
"David P. Greenberg" wrote:
> :-)Not all of us are "guru's". I personally consider myself to be fairly
> :-)unknowledgable. The greatest lesson that I have ever learned was that
> :-)"The only thing that we can know with certainty is that we certainly
> :-)don't know anything". If you can admit th
Once upon a time, Kenneth E. Lussier spake thus:
:-)"David P. Greenberg" wrote:
:-)Not all of us are "guru's". I personally consider myself to be fairly
:-)unknowledgable. The greatest lesson that I have ever learned was that
:-)"The only thing that we can know with certainty is that we certainly
Quoting Mike Bilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On 2000-05-17 at 15:10 -0400, Jeffry Smith wrote:
> and autobuild a set of unofficial i386 CD images each morning at 0700 EDT
> http://debian.bilow.com/debian-cdimage
> ftp://debian.bilow.com/debian-cdimage
Is potato now buildable within ins
Quoting Jeffry Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Wed, 17 May 2000, Mike Bilow wrote:
> > > I haven't done this in Mandrake, but I do download .debs, run through
> > > alien to make into .rpms, then install on Red Hat. mainly because the
> > > Debian site seems to be one of the best collections of o
PROTECTED]>
> To: Jeffry Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: Kevin D. Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, GNHLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
BLU Users' Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Plea for help: The detriment of using Microsoft products
>
> As f
In a message dated: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:13:55 EDT
Mike Bilow said:
>On 2000-05-17 at 09:16 -0400, Jeffry Smith wrote:
>
>> I haven't done this in Mandrake, but I do download .debs, run through
>> alien to make into .rpms, then install on Red Hat. mainly because the
>> Debian site seems to be on
May 2000 18:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Mike Bilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: Jeffry Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: Kevin D. Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, GNHLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> BLU Users' Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subje
In a message dated: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:39:33 EDT
"David P. Greenberg" said:
>
>--Well, now I know how Francis Gary Powers felt. I knew I'd get a flamin' but
>boy howdy...
>
>Now that I've effectively pissed everybody off;
I wouldn't say you actually pissed people off. Rather, what you did was
"David P. Greenberg" wrote:
>
> --Well, now I know how Francis Gary Powers felt. I knew I'd get a flamin' but
> boy howdy...
> Now that I've effectively pissed everybody off; Hi, my name is Dave Greenberg.
> You realise of course that it's all in good fun, and an attempt at
> learning something.
ff
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Mike Bilow wrote:
> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Mike Bilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Jeffry Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: Kevin D. Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, GNHLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
BLU Users' Group
> I gather from reading the posts on this list that most of
> you guys are pretty much computer heavyweights. I'm not. Although I'm a bit of a
> guru to my immediate circle of friends, I'm still the guy who (after countless
> tries) could not install Star Office, has appoplectic seisures at the th
Once upon a time, Mike Bilow spake thus:
:-)The subject line is not funny.
Gee Whiz.
:-)Why do you want to run Linux? Do you have a goal?
Yes. My primary goal is to learn as much about computers in general as
possible. I'm interested in Mac as well. Eventually, I suppose I'd like to
network multi
--Well, now I know how Francis Gary Powers felt. I knew I'd get a flamin' but
boy howdy...
Now that I've effectively pissed everybody off; Hi, my name is Dave Greenberg.
You realise of course that it's all in good fun, and an attempt at
learning something. I gather from reading the posts on this
I think you missed my point. That web page states explicitly:
Please be aware of the following issues regarding this list.
* The SEI does not certify companies at maturity levels.
* The SEI does not confirm the accuracy of the maturity levels
reported by the Lead Assessors or
You should be very interested to learn about UCITA:
http://www.cptech.org/ecom/ucita/
http://www.badsoftware.com/
http://www.eff.org/pub/Intellectual_property/UCITA_UCC2B/2131_fight_ucita_stallman_paper.html
-- Mike
On 2000-05-16 at 16:03 -0400, Derek Martin wrote:
> I'm not a lawyer eith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Ironically, there are a number of books from Microsoft Press that are
> very clear on some of these issues:
>
> Writing Solid Code, Steve Maguire
> Code Complete, Steve McConnell
> Debugging the Development Process, Steve Maguire
hm. They're so busy wri
Mike Bilow asserts:
> Ultimately, reviewing code is a lot like teaching.
This is a fundamental truth. Without this teaching, your
organization's code degenerates into mystical bullshit.
If I had a dollar for every software engineering manager I've met that
lacked this basic understanding...
Derek Martin wrote:
> Tort law is tort law. What's the difference? If
> Microsoft's products (or any other software company's,
> for that matter) cause you to lose time/money/resources,
> why can't they be held accountable? It just doesn't
> make any sense.
What makes this well-stated t
On Tue, 16 May 2000, you wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2000, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
>
> >
> > Derek Martin writes:
> >
> > > Tort law is tort law. What's the difference? If Microsoft's products (or
> > > any other software company's, for that matter) cause you to lose
> > > time/money/resources, why
On Tue, 16 May 2000, you wrote:
> Derek Martin says:
>And as the article you ponted to earlier suggests, an organization can
>write perfect, bug-free code. They simply need to make the commitment to
>do it. I agree wholeheartedly that the design process is the key. If
>
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Tom Rauschenbach wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 May 2000, you wrote:
> [snip]
> > system. My system is dual boot. I'd wager that at least 50% of you out there
> > are also dual boot.
> [snip]
>
> My system was until Win95 needed yet another re-install. The decision to not do
> th
p <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Plea for help: The detriment of using Microsoft products
>
> Given that I criticized Minasi rather severely for his horrendously flawed
> "Inside OS/2" series of books, I find his emergence as a quality expert
> rather ironic,
On Tue, 16 May 2000, you wrote:
> Given that I criticized Minasi rather severely for his horrendously flawed
> "Inside OS/2" series of books, I find his emergence as a quality expert
> rather ironic, to say the least.
>
> I do not believe there are any CMM5 operations in India. There may well
>
On Mon, 15 May 2000, you wrote:
[snip]
> system. My system is dual boot. I'd wager that at least 50% of you out there
> are also dual boot.
[snip]
My system was until Win95 needed yet another re-install. The decision to not do
that wasn't hard.
>
>
> *
Derek Martin says:
And as the article you ponted to earlier suggests, an organization can
write perfect, bug-free code. They simply need to make the commitment to
do it. I agree wholeheartedly that the design process is the key. If
your process is bad, your
This is just outright management failure. See, for example:
http://www.oualline.com/col/review.html
I can assure you that people hate to see me drop in on code reviews. It
takes significant effort to follow someone else's code, and it requires
some practice on their part of explain it.
Given that I criticized Minasi rather severely for his horrendously flawed
"Inside OS/2" series of books, I find his emergence as a quality expert
rather ironic, to say the least.
I do not believe there are any CMM5 operations in India. There may well
be places that claim to be at CMM5, but this
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
>
> Derek Martin writes:
>
> > Tort law is tort law. What's the difference? If Microsoft's products (or
> > any other software company's, for that matter) cause you to lose
> > time/money/resources, why can't they be held accountable? It just doesn'
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
> Derek Martin writes:
>
> > Tort law is tort law. What's the difference? If Microsoft's products (or
> > any other software company's, for that matter) cause you to lose
> > time/money/resources, why can't they be held accountable? It just doesn't
>
For some reason I got this twice - the first time I overlooked it (as
a matter of fact I saw one of the first responses to this and was going
to tell the others to go easy on you since you are a "newbie", but now
I've been at work all day and am in a "pissy" mood - so hang on... ;)
On Mon, 15 M
Derek Martin writes:
> Tort law is tort law. What's the difference? If Microsoft's products (or
> any other software company's, for that matter) cause you to lose
> time/money/resources, why can't they be held accountable? It just doesn't
> make any sense.
IANAL, but the last time I actually
On Tue, 16 May 2000, John Chambers wrote:
>
> Jeffry Smith wrote:
>On Tue, 16 May 2000, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
>...
>> I don't think that a lot of shops out there do a lot of peer-review,
>> and I believe that this tends to produce lower-quality software. I'd
>
Jeffry Smith wrote:
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
...
> I don't think that a lot of shops out there do a lot of peer-review,
> and I believe that this tends to produce lower-quality software. I'd
> bet a million dollars that Boeing's engi
:-) Currently, you run Linux, because you recognize that MS products have
:-)serious issues
Is it just me, or does it seem that all this Linux vs. Microsoft stuff is a
little ridiculous? I love Linux, which I am still pretty much a newbie with,
but I also enjoy Win95, Win3x and Dos. I kind of fee
I have real problems with Microsoft's dominance. I resent being unable to
buy a computer from a major brand-name vendor without Windows. I resent
having the computer arrive with video cards that will never be documented
so that they can be supported on anything other than Windows, or -- worse
--
Derek,
In the future, I/we would appriciate it if you didn't hold back so
much. Please, we want to know how you *REALLY* feel ;-)
Kenny
Derek Martin wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 May 2000, David P. Greenberg wrote:
>
> > :-) Currently, you run Linux, because you recognize that MS products have
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
>
> Jeffry Smith writes:
>
> > Boeing
> > jets are extremely complex, requiring hundreds of thousands, if not
> > millions of parts, each of which must do its job correctly. The
> > odds are that there are flaws in the jets. Yet, as recent actions
>
"Kevin D. Clark" wrote:
>
> Want to see an example of a software group that produces solid code?
> Read this article:
>
>http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html
Thank you for the pointer, Kevin. I'm a pilot; the narration of
main engine start brought me near tears.
But
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:16:27 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Kevin D. Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Jeffry Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: GNHLUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, BLU Users' Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subjec
Jeffry Smith writes:
> Boeing
> jets are extremely complex, requiring hundreds of thousands, if not
> millions of parts, each of which must do its job correctly. The
> odds are that there are flaws in the jets. Yet, as recent actions
> involving the Boeing 737 show, Boeing is held legally and
I'm reading a great book called "The Software Conspiracy." It's not
about a true conspiracy, but about why so much software is bad. The
author, Mark Minasi, points out something very interesting. Boeing
jets are extremely complex, requiring hundreds of thousands, if not
millions of parts, eac
On Mon, 15 May 2000, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Mon, 15 May 2000, David P. Greenberg wrote:
>
> > :-) Currently, you run Linux, because you recognize that MS products have
> > :-)serious issues
> >
> > Is it just me, or does it seem that all this Linux vs. Microsoft stuff is a
> > little ridiculo
On Mon, 15 May 2000, David P. Greenberg wrote:
> and (yes, it's true) the available
> software is far less. Just go into any computer store. You'll see thousands
> of titles for Windows, hundreds for Mac and 3 or 4 for Linux.
And by the way, this is ridiculous. The entire POINT of Linux is tha
On Mon, 15 May 2000, David P. Greenberg wrote:
> :-) Currently, you run Linux, because you recognize that MS products have
> :-)serious issues
>
> Is it just me, or does it seem that all this Linux vs. Microsoft stuff is a
> little ridiculous? I love Linux, which I am still pretty much a newbie
L PROTECTED]>, BLU Users' Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Plea for help: The detriment of using Microsoft products
>
> I've snipped lots of your message to avoid overquoting, and I apologize if
> this does a disservice.
>
> First, SGML was not dev
I've snipped lots of your message to avoid overquoting, and I apologize if
this does a disservice.
First, SGML was not developed as a government standard, but as an internal
IBM standard, although certainly the government became its most
enthusiastic user. Second, HTML is not a subset (nor even
lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, BLU Users' Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Plea for help: The detriment of using Microsoft products
>
> On Mon, 15 May 2000, Jeffry Smith wrote:
>
> > Actually, it would be more to say that HTML is a select subset of XML
> >
On Mon, 15 May 2000, Jeffry Smith wrote:
> Actually, it would be more to say that HTML is a select subset of XML
> (eXtensible Markup Language), which is itself a subset of SGML
> (Standard Generalized Markup Language). SGML was developed as a Gov't
HTML a subset of XML? I wish!! ;) XHTML is
Ken Gosier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>> This rumor was floating around a little while ago. slashdot
>>> carried a story where MS denied any such attempt:
>>> http://slashdot.org/articles/99/03/18/1338254.shtml
Maybe that's because they couldn't figure out how to make it work...
:-)
**
> Which reminds me: I just got a significant doc in Word format, and
> when I printed it on my wife's W98 machine, parts came out garbled
> and funny looking. I've heard a rumor that there was a Word that ran
You might try looking at StarOffice. It's a free Office-like suite from
Sun, that
--- John Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've heard a rumor that there was a
> Word that ran
> on linux, or maybe that there would be Real Soon Now. Is
> this just a
> rumor, or is it available somewhere? It might be fun if
> we could tell
> people "Well, Microsoft's Word can't handle docu
Jeff remarked:
On a related note, when we ran the LBS, I was amazed at the number
of people who wanted to see how to do stuff on Linux, as in editing
Word Documents, Excel Documents, etc, but didn't seem to care about
interoperability with Windows. In fact, it
Paul Lussier wrote:
> >Currently, you run Linux, because you recognize that MS products have
> >serious issues. Do you plan to change your mind suddenly when MS releases
> >Outlook for Linux? I didn't think so...
>
> I'm not saying *I* wi
On a related note, when we ran the LBS, I was amazed at the number
of people who wanted to see how to do stuff on Linux, as in editing
Word Documents, Excel Documents, etc, but didn't seem to care about
interoperability with Windows. In fact, it was more on the order of
"how do I do this without
In a message dated: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:34:34 EDT
Derek Martin said:
>On Mon, 15 May 2000, Jerry Kubeck wrote:
>
>>
>> Excellent piece Derek. I will be adding my own plea, er, viewpoint on this
>> later on as I can get the time.
>
>Thank you Jerry! Nice to know someone appreciates all my ranti
On Mon, 15 May 2000, Jerry Kubeck wrote:
>
> Excellent piece Derek. I will be adding my own plea, er, viewpoint on this
> later on as I can get the time.
Thank you Jerry! Nice to know someone appreciates all my rantings... :)
--
Derek Martin
System Administrator
Mission Critical Linux
[EMAI
On Mon, 15 May 2000, Derek Martin wrote:
> XML
> Admittedly, I don't know very much about XML. A lot of the OSS
> office suites seem to be using it a lot for their data format.
> I gather it's a lot like HTML but more extensible.
>
Actually, it would be more to say that HTML
Excellent piece Derek. I will be adding my own plea, er, viewpoint on this
later on as I can get the time.
Jerry
>On Thu, 11 May 2000, Paul Lussier wrote:
>
>> >Currently, you run Linux, because you recognize that MS products have
>> >serious issues. Do you plan to change your mind suddenly
And then of course, there's this:
http://www.infowarrior.org/articles/MSFOR.pdf
--
Derek Martin
System Administrator
Mission Critical Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with the fol
On Thu, 11 May 2000, Paul Lussier wrote:
> >Currently, you run Linux, because you recognize that MS products have
> >serious issues. Do you plan to change your mind suddenly when MS releases
> >Outlook for Linux? I didn't think so...
>
> I'm not saying *I* will change my mind. What I'm saying
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