On 10/31/2019 09:01 AM, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:29 AM Ruben Safir wrote:
>> Just because YOU say he is defending sexual abuse of minors doesn't make
>> it so, no matter HOW many times you say it. That is the fact and
>> hiding that fact behind charges of sexism is im
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Enge skribis:
> What is missing, however, is, right at the beginning, a statement of mission;
> I think this is so because you essentially assumed it was understood as
> granted... I would put this as the very first paragraph, before the bullet
> list with more detailed point
On 10/31/2019 03:05 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
> We need more positive criticism and calls to action for women.
Yes!
Woman here. Leading the GNU Education Team that works towards the goal
of bringing free software to schools. Leading the Spanish Translation
Team that works hard to bring the word of
* Alfred M. Szmidt [2019-10-31 21:40]:
>Whatʼs about Readline and Tivoization, though?
>
> With Readline I was refering to how GNU clisp used readline, and was
> subsequently released under the GNU GPL. With Tivoization I was
> refering to how, and why the GNU GPL version 3 came to be under
Hello,
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 03:59:38PM -0400, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:
> Ok. So that sounds like a good idea, but how is this different from
> what is sent to GNU maintainers today when they are dubbed as
> maintainer (I attached it at the end of this message)? It seems to
> tick all the boxes
Hello Sandra,
thanks a lot for your personal account and well-argumented description
of how you see the situation.
On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 05:22:03PM -0600, Sandra Loosemore wrote:
> The absolute worst thing the public-facing representative
> of *any* organization can do is bring negative publici
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 07:00:42PM +0700, Marcel wrote:
> > It is definitely not adocument which could found a community.
> What community are you trying to found?
Sorry, I think my formulation was not good. I did not mean a new community,
but something that the existing GNU community could rely u
Hi Dora,
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:32:20PM -0400, Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> On 10/31/2019 09:01 AM, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > Please follow the rules of this list. Repetition should not happen.
> > You have made your case.
>
> It's no repetition. Ruben is responding specifically to a statement.
On 11/1/19 11:09 AM, Patricio Rodríguez wrote:
> Excelente reflexión.
> Saludos.
>
¡Muchas gracias Patricio!
Saludos.
On 11/1/19 7:04 PM, Andreas Enge wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 07:00:42PM +0700, Marcel wrote:
>>> It is definitely not adocument which could found a community.
>> What community are you trying to found?
>
> Sorry, I think my formulation was not good. I did not mean a new community,
> but somet
Hello
> It is definitely not adocument which could found a community.
>
What community are you trying to found?
> Andreas
>
>
Marcel
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 07:09:10PM +0700, Marcel wrote:
> Do you know why none of my posts (including this one) seem to make it to
> the mailing list? I cannot understand it and find it very annoying to be
> personally targeted this way.
No idea, there is moderation of all messages, but I am not i
* Dora Scilipoti [2019-11-01 12:55]:
> On 10/31/2019 03:05 PM, Jean Louis wrote:
>
> > We need more positive criticism and calls to action for women.
>
> Yes!
>
> Woman here. Leading the GNU Education Team that works towards the goal
> of bringing free software to schools. Leading the Spanish
On 11/01/2019 07:39 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> Ruben is a prolific poster who has already made his case that all this
> is just falsehoods and defamation. We are just going to have to agree
> to disagree on that.
Well, I had never read Ruben's case before, because I joined this list
later (and my
On 11/1/19 8:05 PM, Andreas Enge wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 07:09:10PM +0700, Marcel wrote:
>> Do you know why none of my posts (including this one) seem to make it to
>> the mailing list? I cannot understand it and find it very annoying to be
>> personally targeted this way.
>
> No idea,
The fact that so many of my posts have been censored alter the dynamics
of my interaction with this list, making me seem as though my posts make
no sense. I am not a bad writer and have put as much thought as I could
into drafting the longer posts.
It is very disheartening to be silenced this way.
On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:20 AM Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> Please note that the message posted by a woman on Oct 30 contains a
> repetition of what we all have already read on dishonest media.
Sandra Loosemore posted her opinions for the first time. She didn't
repeat herself.
Cheers,
Carlos.
Jean Louis wrote:
> Somebody mentioned first "stubborn". In my opinion word stubborn in relation
> to RMS does not describe his character well, as stubborn is according to
> Wordnet dictionary: tenaciously unwilling or marked by tenacious
> unwillingness to yield -- while other synonyms could m
* Marcel:
> The worst aspect about this whole episode--from my perspective in
> isolation--is that nobody can tell that I am trying to respond
> thoughtfully and intelligently to their posts; the censors do not even
> need to forward a note to forum members saying that such and such other
> member
* Carlos O'Donell [2019-11-01 14:27]:
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:20 AM Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> > Please note that the message posted by a woman on Oct 30 contains a
> > repetition of what we all have already read on dishonest media.
>
> Sandra Loosemore posted her opinions for the first time. Sh
On 11/1/19 9:34 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Marcel:
>
>> The worst aspect about this whole episode--from my perspective in
>> isolation--is that nobody can tell that I am trying to respond
>> thoughtfully and intelligently to their posts; the censors do not even
>> need to forward a note to foru
I'd like to clarify some things, and provide some references. Since I
sent my original post in this thread, several people have accused me of
slandering or defaming RMS, lying about what he has said, making false
accusations against him, repeating false media reports, and the like.
Well, I am
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 12:39:34PM +0100, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> Hi Dora,
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:32:20PM -0400, Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> > On 10/31/2019 09:01 AM, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > Please follow the rules of this list. Repetition should not happen.
> > > You have made your case.
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 09:25:17AM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:20 AM Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> > Please note that the message posted by a woman on Oct 30 contains a
> > repetition of what we all have already read on dishonest media.
>
> Sandra Loosemore posted her opini
On 11/1/19 3:32 AM, Andreas Enge wrote:
Do you have ideas on how to change that, maybe on a per-package basis?
For instance, did you experience things in GCC/Binutils or in other
environments that you think might help to attract more women, or more
generally to make diverse groups of potential c
Le mercredi 30 octobre 2019, 15:00:16 CET Marcel a écrit :
> Having read through the long "Turning GNU into a bottom-up organization"
> thread, I have decided to join this mailing list and express support for
> GNU (as it has evolved over the past 35 years) and its chief GNUisance,
> RMS, as well a
Hello all,
attached is a new proposal; I am not using org-mode and I am not a native
speaker, so bear with me for any mistakes.
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 12:04:13PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > "The purpose of the GNU project is to provide an entirely free operating
> > system."
>
> To better
Hello Andy,
while I am not very happy about your military analogy, my first reaction
was that indeed, the FSF is there for the philosophy, and GNU for the
practical realisation. But then I think things are not as easy as that.
The FSF is also a charity collecting donations and running servers and
* Alexandre François Garreau [2019-11-01 17:45]:
> This might be a good point. However, for the sake of correctness, note this
> is a joint statement of GNU *maintainers*.
It would be good to avoid generalization.
That was a statement that was created, people from various parts of
the world ca
If censored, this message will be published. If you are thinking of
censoring, instead, ask me and propose me which politically incorrect
sentences to delete from here. Please don't send my nonsensical
denigrating comments how I shall "calm down" or "think". Thank you
censor.
* Sandra Loosemore
* Alexandre François Garreau [2019-11-01 20:30]:
> Thank you for your answer,
>
> Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 18:37:54 CET Jean Louis a écrit :
> > That was a statement that was created, people from various parts of
> > the world cannot possibly make a joint statement in same time. There
> > was
Hello, Sandra,
On 11/01/2019 11:34 AM, Sandra Loosemore wrote:
> Here are some actual things that RMS has said about sexual exploitation
> of minors, with references to the sources of the quotes.
[...]
Thanks you for making it clear that you were referring to these and not
to the CSAIL issue. I
* Sandra Loosemore:
> It has bothered me for a long time that there are so few women
> participating in the GNU community. I think I might be the only female
> maintainer on either GCC/Binutils right now (I haven't gone through the
> lists, but the others I used to know about have stepped dow
Le jeudi 31 octobre 2019, 02:36:03 CET Ruben Safir a écrit :
> On 10/30/19 7:22 PM, Sandra Loosemore wrote:
> > And then there were RMS's disgusting public comments defending sexual
> > exploitation of minors,
>
> There was nothing disgusting about it and he absolutely 100% wasn't
> defending sexu
Le dimanche 27 octobre 2019, 18:55:59 CET Alfred M. Szmidt a écrit :
> that
> "stubborn governance" is what is needed to keep things free. If
> anything, we should have even more stubborn goverance -- and that can
> only be done by a trusted group of people that are willing to uphold
> the values
Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 17:27:53 CET Sandra Loosemore a écrit :
> On 11/1/19 3:32 AM, Andreas Enge wrote:
> > Do you have ideas on how to change that, maybe on a per-package basis?
> > For instance, did you experience things in GCC/Binutils or in other
> > environments that you think might hel
Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 20:32:42 CET Jean Louis a écrit :
> * Alexandre François Garreau [2019-11-01 20:30]:
> > Thank you for your answer,
> >
> > Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 18:37:54 CET Jean Louis a écrit :
> > > That was a statement that was created, people from various parts of
> > > t
Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 14:09:23 CET Dora Scilipoti a écrit :
> On 11/01/2019 07:39 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > Ruben is a prolific poster who has already made his case that all this
> > is just falsehoods and defamation. We are just going to have to agree
> > to disagree on that.
>
> Well,
Le jeudi 31 octobre 2019, 04:04:37 CET wayne, steve a écrit :
> Long time listener, first time caller.
>
> Ruben, for what it's worth your frothy-at-the-mouth email filled with
> tropes of male nerd chauvinism probably isn't a great argument against
> "this community is filled with reasons for wom
Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 16:23:28 CET Ruben Safir a écrit :
> On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 09:25:17AM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:20 AM Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> > > Please note that the message posted by a woman on Oct 30 contains a
> > > repetition of what we all have
Le jeudi 31 octobre 2019 11:51:12 CET, vous avez écrit :
> Did you see in that message calling people "old white men"? Based upon
> your own standards of what is kind and what not, it is kind to call
> "old white men" but it is not kind to respond to such allegations?
Indeed not. Because “old whi
He changed his mind since then.
https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-sep-dec.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
Yet that looked as “excentrical” as his other uncommon views (about
necrophilia, bestiality, etc. etc.), and was drown into these until now: too
bad
Thank you for your answer,
Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 18:37:54 CET Jean Louis a écrit :
> That was a statement that was created, people from various parts of
> the world cannot possibly make a joint statement in same time. There
> was initator to that statement, and initator invited other people
* Jean Louis:
> But if you do so, then you are allowing one new direction in the GNU
> project, that everyone involved in the GNU project should go around
> GNU contributors and whoever else is related and connected to GNU to
> see if that person did not say maybe something politically incorrect,
* Alexandre François Garreau:
> Le vendredi 1 novembre 2019, 17:27:53 CET Sandra Loosemore a écrit :
>> I've thought about this and discussed it with other CodeSourcery people
>> from time to time in the past, but we've pretty much come up blank. It
>> might help if I personally pursued a more vi
* Andreas Enge [2019-11-02 02:09]:
> Hello Andy,
>
> while I am not very happy about your military analogy, my first reaction
> was that indeed, the FSF is there for the philosophy, and GNU for the
> practical realisation. But then I think things are not as easy as
> that.
Also think about the b
* Andreas Enge [2019-11-02 02:09]:
> Hello all,
>
> attached is a new proposal; I am not using org-mode and I am not a native
> speaker, so bear with me for any mistakes.
All the points stated there is already implemented in GNU free
software philosophy.
There is no need for any kind of coerced
Hi Marcel,
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 09:52:52PM +0700, Marcel wrote:
> I did not harass anyone. I expressed myself, as I am doing now, and
> every time I did so, my posts were silently kept from the list.
>
> If all three versions of my response all violated the censor's rules, so
> did her message
Alexandre François Garreau, le ven. 01 nov. 2019 19:23:40 +0100, a ecrit:
> Would be better if, like other mailing-list softwares I saw, we could
> be resent back the previous mail by asking the mailing-list software
Even better, you can download archives as mbox from
https://lists.gnu.org/archive
* Florian Weimer [2019-11-02 02:47]:
> * Jean Louis:
>
> > But if you do so, then you are allowing one new direction in the GNU
> > project, that everyone involved in the GNU project should go around
> > GNU contributors and whoever else is related and connected to GNU to
> > see if that person d
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 07:09:46PM +0100, Andreas Enge wrote:
> The FSF is also a charity collecting donations and running servers and so on
> for GNU, so it is very practical indeed. The latter could maybe move to GNU
> proper, with the former needing to remain at the FSF, as well as legal
> matte
Hi Andreas,
On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 at 06:19:29PM +0100, Andreas Enge wrote:
> attached is a new proposal; I am not using org-mode and I am not a native
> speaker, so bear with me for any mistakes.
Also not a "native speaker", but it reads very well to me. Thanks.
> Proposal of a “GNU Social Contra
On Fri, 2019-11-01 at 19:09 +0100, Andreas Enge wrote:
> the FSF is there for the philosophy, and GNU for the
> practical realisation. But then I think things are not as easy as
> that.
Indeed it's not: Those that know GNU history will know that the GNU
Project existed for 2 years prior to the FSF
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