I was not expecting any semblance of even-handedness or consistency from
Noronha about his newly minted situational rule about not addressing Goanet
members who are not contributing to Goanet in their official capacity as Doc,
Prof, Fr., etc. From long experience on Goanet and other Goan
On 5 December 2011 22:56, roland.fran...@gmail.com wrote:
It is only fair that if Frederick is to be known as Admin or Patracar then
the following honorifics should also apply:
Selma Grant (as in the British Hugh Grant and in honor of research grant
obtained).
Bummer Colaco (due to Bahamas
On 5 December 2011 22:56, roland.fran...@gmail.com wrote:
It is only fair that if Frederick is to be known as Admin or Patracar then
the following honorifics should also apply:
Selma Grant (as in the British Hugh Grant and in honor of research grant
obtained).
Bummer Colaco (due to Bahamas
This is getting both boring and childish.
(i) I have a name, so please use it, if you wish.
(ii) As I see it, I do not need either honorifics or
patronisingly-bestowed prefixes or suffixes to my name. JC has also
been using the word patracar in a similar vein.
(iii) When I take part in Goanet
It is only fair that if Frederick is to be known as Admin or Patracar then the
following honorifics should also apply:
Selma Grant (as in the British Hugh Grant and in honor of research grant
obtained).
Bummer Colaco (due to Bahamas residency and for his constant bumming of
Patrakar Eugene).
On 3 December 2011 16:16, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote:
Thanks E. D'Sousa for this suggestion. Henceforth, I will call him Goanet
Administrator, if he does not mind.
Cheers,
Santosh
P.S. I noticed that Mr. Gabe Menezes has used a foul and abusive word to
refer to Jose
, Gabe Menezes wrote thus to/about Santoshbab: A cry baby rant,
looking in vain, for support - tried a pathetic attempt to draw Dr.
Colaco into this. Called in his side kick Goveia to bolster - such a
forlorn figure.
Dear Gabe,
I thought you would have learned your lesson by now. But here it
On 2 December 2011 21:06, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote:
Admin Noronha,
I know that Admin is not your first name. But are you not a Goanet Admin?
If so, do you mind if I continue to call you Admin Noronha especially on
Goanet?
Cheers,
Santosh
RESPONSE: The man has already
Gabe,
My questions are addressed to Admin Noronha. I would like to know whether he is
a Goanet Admin or not. Why are you abusing me? What have I done to you?
Cheers,
Santosh
From: Gabe Menezes gabe.mene...@gmail.com
RESPONSE: The man has already told you,
On 2 December 2011 13:42, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote:
RESPONSE:
In fact, I don't mind
what anyone calls me but thought I'd place it here for the attention
of the Goose and the Gander.)
jc
QUESTION: Labelling is fine? So you would you not mind being called a
Dr. Helekar writes:
I know that Admin is not your first name. But are you not a Goanet Admin? If
so, do you mind if I continue to call you Admin Noronha especially on Goanet?
Comment:
Perhaps you could at least, if you must, make it Goanet Administrator.
Sounds more respectable.
E.
[A] re: In fact, I don't mind... what anyone calls me but thought
I'd place it here for the attention of the Goose and the Gander.
[B] Gabe Menezes asked: So you would you not mind being called a Pedia
Doctor Colaco and all the connotations, which may or may not arise?;
If you don't want to
Thanks E. D'Sousa for this suggestion. Henceforth, I will call him Goanet
Administrator, if he does not mind.
Cheers,
Santosh
P.S. I noticed that Mr. Gabe Menezes has used a foul and abusive word to refer
to Jose Colaco and me in the following quote:
QUOTE
We could proceed to
Here are my answers to Admin Noronha's questions.
Admin Noronha wrote:
* What makes English a foreign language? National boundaries? Its origins?
How does this tie up with its current position in India, where it is used as
an associate national language?
The fact that the native language of
May I say it here too, that neither Admin nor FN is my first name. FN
are my initials (which I use sometimes *instead* of my name and definitely
don't mind if people call me that), and as for what honorofic titles I
deserve is best left to someone who can disagree less disagreeably in
public.
Now
[A] Frederick FN Noronha wrote:
May I say it here too, that neither Admin nor FN is my first name.
FN are my initials (which I use sometimes *instead* of my name and definitely
don't mind if people call me that)
Now that shouldn't be rocket science for Scientist Helekar, or should it?
[B]
Admin Noronha,
I know that Admin is not your first name. But are you not a Goanet Admin? If
so, do you mind if I continue to call you Admin Noronha especially on Goanet?
Cheers,
Santosh
- Original Message -
From: Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا
Gabe Menezes stated: Okay he (Santosh Helekar) did not write
anything of the kind; so I take back what I wrote.
Earlier, Gabe Menezes had asked Santosh Helekar if he was 'plain thick or what?'
COMMENT: I know that there was a 24 hour strike in the UK .
Was that also a strike from
Admin Noronha had told me in the Secular Goa forum that his first name was not
Admin. So I switched to calling him FN Noronha in that forum. But he is an
Admin on Goanet, and has never disavowed that appellation here. He deserves
that honorific title in this forum. I have no idea why Gabe chose
This is a good duck doc! You were eloquent in your reluctance to answer...
FN
On 1 December 2011 04:34, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote:
re #2: While I try not to involve anyone else's children or
grandchildren (or spouse) in GN discussions - unless they are public
figures, I will
Frederick Noronha wrote thus to me: 'This is a good duck doc! You were
eloquent in your reluctance to answer...'
Clarification sought:
1: Why did you conclude that my answer is reluctant?
2: Did you not get the information you sought from my answer ?
3: What else did you seek to ask .and
On 30 November 2011 02:24, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote:
RESPONSE:
I know that between work, travel, the beach and sleep, I miss a number
of Goanet related conversations. Having said that, I'd be grateful IF
somebody (including Gabe) would please direct me to an audio recording
or
On 30 November 2011 04:27, J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com wrote:
c: Interesting that FN asks, in one breath: 'What makes English a
foreign language?' and then refers us to the TOEFL scores 'specially
in places like Goa'.
As arguments, these are good... but I don't know where this logic takes
re: FN, in one breath, asking 'What makes English a foreign
language?' and , in another, referring us to the TOEFL scores
'specially in places like Goa'.
[1] FN wrote: As arguments, these are good... but I don't know where
this logic takes us.
[2] FN then proceeded to ask this One question: JC,
Hi Eugene, I think this entire engineered debate was a conspiracy to get
unsuspecting you to read Selma's book. Finally! If that was really the
case, I would definitely give full marks to Selma, and withdraw all my
charges, insinuations, allegations, aspersions, etc, etc about her possibly
being
Eugene Correia wrote:
[1] Like a magnet, Selma's Into The Diaspora Wilderness pulls me towards it.
[2] My apology, Selma for saying that it didn't have the acknowledgement page.
Khommenth:
Baba Eugene,
Good morning from the east coast...
re #1: I am (personally) relieved to hear that it
2011/11/28 Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك
نورونياfredericknoro...@gmail.com:
Why have all the Goan experts in the Queen's English simply migrated to Texas
and Drayton?
I noticed that, using the well-honed skills of distortion and incomprehension,
Admin Noronha has now left
All good arguments, but veering off the point. A few issues struck me
while reading this:
* What makes English a foreign language? National boundaries? Its
origins? How does this tie up with its current position in India,
where it is used as an associate national language?
* Also, what about
Frederick FN Noronha 'rote': The challenge is what happens to those
STILL STRUGGLING TO PICK UP those skills. Do we treat them with
disdain, charity, condescension or hope?
Khommenth:
a: Those who truly struggle - deserve our helping hand and encouragement.
b: The tratamenth with disdain,
On 29 November 2011 18:22, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote:
2011/11/28 Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا
fredericknoro...@gmail.com:
Why have all the Goan experts in the Queen's English simply migrated to
Texas and Drayton?
I noticed that, using the
Gabe Menezes wrote thus to Santoshbab: As they say in English spoken
in England for F's sake, the man has told you that he should not be
addressed as admin Noronha; are you plain thick or what?
RESPONSE:
I know that between work, travel, the beach and sleep, I miss a number
of Goanet related
It is not only childish on Selma's part but rather foolish to let this
debate take a toll on her. For someone who is British-educated, she
should have understood that Cecil's column is humour. One can take
liberties with the accents of one's own community. Check Russell
Peters having a ball with
Dear E,
Thanks for giving us further details on Siddartha Mukherjee and his
book. I learnt about his background through news reports when he won
the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction.
Like his book on medicine, there's another book by an Indian, Abraham
Verghese, on AIDS, called My Own
Frederick FN Noronha wrote: your class bias is showing! I wouldn't
judge anyone on their
ability (or lack of it) to speak English. Or any other language for
that matter.
Kommenth: Your own bias towards differing opinions of others is the
one which has shown itself. Nobody judged anybody based
Dear Doc,
You've got it wrong. Frederick doesn't want to be left in peace. In his own
ventures he will leave no estone unturned to ensure editting to an acceptable
level. He'll even call you long-distance to argue a grammatical error. But like
all good socialist, while sipping on champagne
Selma wrote:
Dear Doc,
You've got it wrong. Frederick doesn't want to be left in peace. In his own
ventures he will leave no estone unturned to ensure editting to an acceptable
level.
Me:
Dear Doc,
You were sharp enough to find my mistook, but how come you missed
your dear friend Selma's
Eugene Correia wrote:
[1] You were sharp enough to find my mistook, but how come you
missed your dear friend Selma's estone and editting
[2] I do agree with Fred that you suffer from class bias.
[3] You need to get your eyes checked as, I feel, you may be suffering
from peripheral vision.
Like a magnet, Selma's Into The Diaspora Wilderness pulls me towards
it. For the second time in a few days I picked it again from my
bookshelf and went to the last pages to check some references to Dubai
and its Goan inhabitants. To my surprise I found A Debt of Gratitude,
her acknowledgements to
The debate over English, both spoken and written forms, in India have
been going on for long. I read one piece that mentioned the
Bhagatisation of English newspapers and elsewhere I read,
dumbing down of publishing, of the Chetan Bhagatisation of
reading..Chetan Bhagat recently appeared on
Frederick Noronha wrote:
Cecil, The debate below is about obscenely best-selling authors twisting
the English language out of their laziness, or without any method to their
madness.
The debate on English in today's Goa is quite another thing. If I'm being
accurate here, it saw Selma faulting
Eugene Correia eugene.corr...@gmail.com wrote:
1: As Fred points out, Selma set the ball rolling with her ABSURD
remark that the level of English in Goa today has fallen drastically
2: I would be glad if some of the academics here on goanet would come
forward and let us know WHAT IS the state of
Selma, you're shifting the goalposts to justify your earlier post.
These are two very different issues here: Jerry Pinto is faulting India's
bestselling author for writing in sloppy English. You are targetting the
underdog (a subaltern Goan, and most likely a first-generation learner of
English,
Selma, I don't want to personalise this debate, because it is not
about Selma or Venita, Goans or expats. It's about perceptions and
arguments based on accuracy.
Just some responses:
(1) I disagree with Venita's view that Goans need to know better
Hindi. Why? Those who need it will learn it,
Frederick Noronha wrote:
The debate on English in today's Goa is quite another thing. If I'm
being accurate here, it saw Selma faulting Goans back in Goa (probably
first generation learners) for speaking poor quality English, with
others joining in (was it Santosh Helekar?) to suggest that if
I thought disenfranchisement meant denying a person his or her right
or privelege. On a larger point, Fred hasn't disenfranchised any
viewpoints but has challenged them. He may or may not agree but he, as
one of the admnistrators of goanet, has not denied Selma to express
her view on the subject.
Eugene Correia eugene.corr...@gmail.com
writes:
There are new writers coming out of India. The impressive one, I am
told my a friend who is himself a writer and critic, is .Siddhartha
Mukherjee. I haven't read his Emperor of All Maladies.
Comment:
I suppose you could say that he is a writer
Eugene babaam I ...HOPEFULLY...the first...
Ever full of Hope...
Chacha...
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:51:31 -0800
From: ejd...@att.net
To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
CC: eugene.corr...@gmail.com
Subject: [Goanet] To add to the debate on English- References to Siddharta
Mukherjee's
On 27 November 2011 22:53, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote:
Jia munxeank tanchi avoibas soddun English ulovnk zai tanni sarki
English xikpachi ani ulovpachi dhasdus korunk zai. Komitkomi tanni
aaplea bhurgeank bori English xikovnk zai.
Dotorbab, Maka tuji preskripshun somzona! Ami
[1] Santosh Helekar wrote: Jia munxeank tanchi avoibas soddun English
ulovnk zai tanni sarki
English xikpachi ani ulovpachi dhasdus korunk zai. Komitkomi tanni
aaplea bhurgeank bori English xikovnk zai.
[2] Frederick Noronha wrote: Dotorbab, Maka tuji preskripshun
somzona! Ami sogle Ingliss
Lest some of our readers feel they're becoming victims, once again, to
Goan exclusionism and snobbery in its varied forms, permit me to do a
creative and freewheeling translation of the text below:
2011/11/28 Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا
fredericknoro...@gmail.com:
Hey doc, your class bias is showing! I wouldn't judge anyone on their
ability (or lack of it) to speak English. Or any other language for
that matter. Guess there are other, deeper qualities which we need to
look for in decent human beings! FN
On 28 November 2011 03:45, J. Colaco jc
Selma responded to Frederick:
Even if your interpretation of Jerry's point was accurate, which it is
not, the larger point is that you insist on disenfranchising
viewpoints purely because they belong to non-resident (some like me
only temporarily non-resident) Goans. And you use this rebuttal
http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/report_take-liberties-with-english-dont-outrage-its-modesty_1608140
Take liberties with English, don't outrage its modesty
Published: Sunday, Nov 6, 2011, 10:30 IST | Updated: Sunday, Nov 6,
2011, 0:48 IST
By Rito Paul | Place: Mumbai | Agency: DNA
It was an
Dear Cecil,
Thank you posting this link. I especially liked Jerry Pinto's impassioned plea
and I totally agree with the two points he makes, “I don’t mind changing the
language. What really gets to me is if you change it not with rigour and
purpose but by the virtue of being plain lazy, and the
Cecil, The debate below is about obscenely best-selling authors twisting
the English language out of their laziness, or without any method to their
madness.
The debate on English in today's Goa is quite another thing. If I'm being
accurate here, it saw Selma faulting Goans back in Goa (probably
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