Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 21, 2011, at 8:52 AM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > I don't have experience with proof assistants, but maybe my answer to this > thread can be summed up as giving Haskell that kind of capability. ;) Okay, then suffice it to say that most of what you said *is* implemented in real languages li

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

Support for long binary data sections would be nice. -- Jason Dusek ()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 21, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Alexander Solla wrote: > I would rather have an incomplete semantic, and have all the incomplete parts > collapsed into something we call "bottom". We can then be smart and stay > within a total fragment of the language (where bottom is guaranteed to not > occur).

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 21, 2011, at 2:14 PM, scooter@gmail.com wrote: > I'd suggest, in addition to the symbols, renaming some of the fundamental > types and concepts, like Monad. I would violently agree that Monad is the > correct term, but try to communicate with a commodity software developer > sometim

[Haskell-cafe] OOM when linking, increasingly a problem

I've started to run out of memory when linking certain packages. The culprits at the moment are crypto-api (Crypto.CPoly) and Agda-executable. A bit of searching revealed that adding ghc-options: -dynamic to the Agda-executable .cabal could allow me to link that package. And it worked. cry

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On 21 Dec 2011, at 08:24, Alexander Solla wrote: > I would rather have an incomplete semantic, and have all the incomplete parts > collapsed into something we call "bottom". I don't see the reason to limit ourselves to that. Of course, in total languages like Agda there is no need for (_|_). B

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Partial statical linking

One thing I don't get is how, for GHC on Mac, this seems to work with out any fiddling at all; but on Linux it's really quite challenging. -- Jason Dusek ()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments 2011/12/1 Irene Knapp : > Please

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:46 AM, Ben Lippmeier wrote: > > On 20/12/2011, at 6:06 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > > > * Alexander Solla [2011-12-19 19:10:32-0800] > >> * Documentation that discourages thinking about bottom as a 'value'. > It's > >> not a value, and that is what defines it. > > > >

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

I'd suggest, in addition to the symbols, renaming some of the fundamental types and concepts, like Monad. I would violently agree that Monad is the correct term, but try to communicate with a commodity software developer sometime (or a government acquisition professional). RWH goes a long way to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

I'd suggest, in addition to the symbols, renaming some of the fundamental types and concepts, like Monad. I would violently agree that Monad is the correct term, but try to communicate with a commodity software developer sometime (or a government acquisition professional). RWH goes a long way to

[Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: partial-lens 0.0.1

Do you miss null references from your old imperative programming days? Wish that the worlds best imperative language had null references? Now your wishes have come true with the new partial-lens package! partial-lens augment edwardk's data-lens package with partial lens. Partial lenses are li

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:17:32PM +0100, Hans Aberg wrote: > The monospace characters U+1D670-1D6A3 might be used for keywords. Font: > http://www.stixfonts.org/ I feel that monospace fonts should be used for all of programming. A language could use Unicode symbols, but if it enforces typograph

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 21:05, Andrew Cowie wrote: > Now we just need λ to replace \, → to replace ->, and ≠ to replace /= > (which still looks like division assignment no matter how hard I squint > my eyes. 25 years of C and C derived languages is hard to forget). > Some of it is already support

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, 2011-12-20 at 16:53 -0500, Matthew Farkas-Dyck wrote: > Two of three ain't bad (^_~) Now we just need λ to replace \, → to replace ->, and ≠ to replace /= (which still looks like division assignment no matter how hard I squint my eyes. 25 years of C and C derived languages is hard to forge

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Chris Wong wrote: > > Why not expand it even further? > > class Monoid m where >    (•) :: m -> m -> m >    (∅) :: m > > (∈) :: (Foldable t, Eq a) => a -> t a -> Bool > > (∘) :: (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> c) > > (∧) :: Bool -> Bool -> Bool > > etc. > > We can wr

Re: [Haskell-cafe] The Riddle of the Buddhist Monk

On 21/12/2011, at 4:34 AM, Patrick Browne wrote: > I have simplified the code using constructors and export. > I can evalute the qualified expressions but I do not get the expected results. > > module MONKONMOVE (module MONKONMOVE)where When I see "MONKONMOVE" I think "what's a MONKON?" Even

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

MigMit wrote: > Dec 20, 2011, в 14:40, Jesse Schalken написал(а): > > > If you think a value might not reduce, return an error in an error monad. > > Then the caller is forced to handle the case of an error, or propagate the > > error upwards. The error can also be handled in pure code this way,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Matthew Farkas-Dyck wrote: > With GHC 7.0.3: > > $ cat test.hs > class ℝ a where { >  test :: a; > }; > > (∈) :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> Bool; > x ∈ (y:ys) = x == y || x ∈ ys; > > main = putStrLn "Two of three ain't bad (^_~)"; > $ runhaskell test.hs > Two of three ai

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 17:52, Jesse Schalken wrote: > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Gregory Crosswhite > wrote: > >> That would certainly be a lovely idea *if* we were programming in Agda, >> but I was under the assumption that this conversation was about Haskell. >> :-) >> > > I don't have

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Gregory Crosswhite wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:21 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Gregory Crosswhite < > gcrosswh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> On Dec 20, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: >> >> Why do you have to solve th

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On 20 Dec 2011, at 22:51, Chris Wong wrote: >> One thing that concerns me is the use of capital letters to distinguish type >> and class names and constructors from values. If I was doing it over I >> would use a typographical distinction like italics for types, bold for >> classes. That way we

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

With GHC 7.0.3: $ cat test.hs class ℝ a where { test :: a; }; (∈) :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> Bool; x ∈ (y:ys) = x == y || x ∈ ys; main = putStrLn "Two of three ain't bad (^_~)"; $ runhaskell test.hs Two of three ain't bad (^_~) $ On 20/12/2011, David Fox wrote: > On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:20 AM

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

> One thing that concerns me is the use of capital letters to distinguish type > and class names and constructors from values.  If I was doing it over I > would use a typographical distinction like italics for types, bold for > classes.  That way we could have a constructor named ∅, a function name

Re: [Haskell-cafe] How hard is it to start a web startup using Haskell?

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Yves Parès wrote: > > Haskell is a mature platform that provides lots of goodies that I might > otherwise have to write (like the goodies I wrote in Lift including an > Actors library) > > I don't get it: Actors are at the core of Scala concurrency model, Actors

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Mitigating state-threading through an application loop

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Michael Serra wrote: > Hello Haskellers, >   I'm implementing a simple tree-manipulating (for sports tournaments) > application prototype, with SDL for graphics and simple user interaction. > For reference, I've posted the code on hpaste.  My question is about cod

[Haskell-cafe] PADL 2012 Final Call for Participation

Final Call for Participation 14th International Symposium on Practical Aspects of Declarative Languages (PADL 2012) http://research.microsoft.com/~crusso/padl12 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA, January 23-24, 2012

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Mitigating state-threading through an application loop

2011/12/20 Michael Serra : > Hello Haskellers, >   I'm implementing a simple tree-manipulating (for sports tournaments) > application prototype, with SDL for graphics and simple user interaction. > For reference, I've posted the code on hpaste.  My question is about code > organization: everything

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Robert Clausecker wrote: > Image you would create your own language with a paradigm similar to > Haskell or have to chance to change Haskell without the need to keep any > compatibility. What stuff would you add to your language, what stuff > would you remove and

[Haskell-cafe] Mitigating state-threading through an application loop

Hello Haskellers, I'm implementing a simple tree-manipulating (for sports tournaments) application prototype, with SDL for graphics and simple user interaction. For reference, I've posted the code on hpaste. My question is about code organization: everything was simple a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] The Riddle of the Buddhist Monk

I have simplified the code using constructors and export.I can evalute the qualified expressions but I do not get the expected results.module  MONKONMOVE (module MONKONMOVE)wheredata  Monk =  Monk | Monku | Monkd deriving (Show,Eq)data  TimeOfDay =   TimeOfDay | Timeu1 | Timeu2 | Timeu3 | Timed1 |

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:21 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Gregory Crosswhite > wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > >> Why do you have to solve the halting problem? > > You have to solve the halting problem if you want to replace every

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

What I think to be the hard part to do is to put this on the type system, e.g.: intDiv x y = if y > x then 0 else 1 + (intDiv (x - y) y) Should not compile. Otherwise you will need the bottom value. Am I missing something? Thiago. 2011/12/20 Jesse Schalken : > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:43 PM

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Gregory Crosswhite wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > > Why do you have to solve the halting problem? > > > You have to solve the halting problem if you want to replace every place > where _|_ could occur with an Error monad (or someth

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

Tillmann Rendel wrote: Hi, Robert Clausecker wrote: Image you would create your own language with a paradigm similar to Haskell or have to chance to change Haskell without the need to keep any compatibility. What stuff would you add to your language, what stuff would you remove and what problem

Re: [Haskell-cafe] The Riddle of the Buddhist Monk

On 12/20/11, Paul Johnson wrote:You definitely don't need the type class, and you don't need instances.I have removed the type class and instances.I have placed the location function in MONKONMOVEUP  and MONKONMOVEDOWNNow I can at least access the functions and some of values. For exampleMONKMEET

Re: [Haskell-cafe] The Riddle of the Buddhist Monk

On 12/20/11, Paul Johnson wrote:I think you need to rethink the solution: Haskell is not a logic programming language. Yes of course, but I suspect that the problems are due to issues of scope and modularity rather than problems of a logical nature The main equation for meets does give the app

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On 20/12/2011, at 21:52 , Gregory Crosswhite wrote: > >> Some would say that non-termination is a computational effect, and I can >> argue either way depending on the day of the week. > > *shrug* I figure that whether you call _|_ a value is like whether you > accept the Axiom of Choice: it

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 20, 2011, at 9:18 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > Why do you have to solve the halting problem? You have to solve the halting problem if you want to replace every place where _|_ could occur with an Error monad (or something similar), because _|_ includes occasions when functions will never

Re: [Haskell-cafe] The Riddle of the Buddhist Monk

On 20/12/11 10:16, Patrick Browne wrote: Hi, I am trying to implement a set of 4 modules that blend the action of a monk moving up a mountain on day 1 and returning down by the same path on day 2 [1][2]. The code should reflect the fact that there is some time and place which is common to the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Gregory Crosswhite wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:40 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > > If you think a value might not reduce, return an error in an error monad. > > > Okay, I'm completely convinced! Now all that we have to do is to solve > the halting problem to mak

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

Отправлено с iPhone Dec 20, 2011, в 14:40, Jesse Schalken написал(а): > > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Gregory Crosswhite > wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Ben Lippmeier wrote: >> >> On 20/12/2011, at 6:0

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ben Lippmeier wrote: > Some would say that non-termination is a computational effect, and I can > argue either way depending on the day of the week. *shrug* I figure that whether you call _|_ a value is like whether you accept the Axiom of Choice: it is a situati

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:40 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > If you think a value might not reduce, return an error in an error monad. Okay, I'm completely convinced! Now all that we have to do is to solve the halting problem to make your solution work... :-) Cheers, Greg

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Gregory Crosswhite wrote: > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Ben Lippmeier wrote: > >> >> On 20/12/2011, at 6:06 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: >> >> > In denotational semantics, every well-formed term in th

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

>> > In denotational semantics, every well-formed term in the language must >> > have a value. So, what is a value of "fix id"? >> >> There isn't one! >> >> Bottoms will be the null pointers of the 2010's, you watch. >> >> This ×1000. Errors go in an error monad. > > Including all possible man

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Jesse Schalken wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Ben Lippmeier wrote: > > On 20/12/2011, at 6:06 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > > > In denotational semantics, every well-formed term in the language must > > have a value. So, what is a value of "fix id"?

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

Отправлено с iPhone Dec 20, 2011, в 7:10, Alexander Solla написал(а): > * Documentation that discourages thinking about bottom as a 'value'. It's > not a value, and that is what defines it. It's definitely a value. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Ha

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Ben Lippmeier wrote: > > On 20/12/2011, at 6:06 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > > > * Alexander Solla [2011-12-19 19:10:32-0800] > >> * Documentation that discourages thinking about bottom as a 'value'. > It's > >> not a value, and that is what defines it. > > > >

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On 20/12/2011, at 9:06 PM, Thiago Negri wrote: >> There isn't one! >> >> Bottoms will be the null pointers of the 2010's, you watch. > How would you represent it then? Types probably. In C, the badness of null pointers is that when you inspect an int* you don't always find an int. Of course

[Haskell-cafe] The Riddle of the Buddhist Monk

Hi,I am trying to implement a set of 4 modules that blend the action of a monk moving up a mountain on day 1 and returning down by the same path on day 2 [1][2]. The code should reflect the fact that there is some time and place which is common to the two days where the monk would *meets himself*.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On Dec 20, 2011, at 8:05 PM, Tillmann Rendel wrote: > Hi, > > Robert Clausecker wrote: >> Image you would create your own language with a paradigm similar to >> Haskell or have to chance to change Haskell without the need to keep any >> compatibility. What stuff would you add to your language, w

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

How would you represent it then? Would it cause a compiler error? Thiago. 2011/12/20 Ben Lippmeier : > > On 20/12/2011, at 6:06 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > >> * Alexander Solla [2011-12-19 19:10:32-0800] >>> * Documentation that discourages thinking about bottom as a 'value'.  It's >>> not a v

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

Hi, Robert Clausecker wrote: Image you would create your own language with a paradigm similar to Haskell or have to chance to change Haskell without the need to keep any compatibility. What stuff would you add to your language, what stuff would you remove and what problems would you solve comple

Re: [Haskell-cafe] If you'd design a Haskell-like language, what would you do different?

On 20/12/2011, at 6:06 PM, Roman Cheplyaka wrote: > * Alexander Solla [2011-12-19 19:10:32-0800] >> * Documentation that discourages thinking about bottom as a 'value'. It's >> not a value, and that is what defines it. > > In denotational semantics, every well-formed term in the language must