Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/04/2005 at 04:04 PM, Howard Brazee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >Maybe you are comparing Unix editors. "Full screen" is dumbed down. No; a full screen editor that doesn't have a change command or a macro facility is dumbed down. A full screen editor like emacs, ISP

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/03/2005 at 10:47 PM, Ed Finnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >Line mode, text commands. That is not responsive to the question "Then what is the EDLIN equivalent of, e.g., calling a CLIST from within EDIT?"; EDLIN does not support a programmable macro facility of any

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

- Original Message - From: "Eric Vaughan -- illustro Systems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer I agree with Tim's point about transforming

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

Howard: On Aug 4, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: On 4-Aug-2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (McKown, John) wrote: My impression is that a "dumbed down interface" is the one the other guy uses. My concept of a "dumbed down interface" is really "an interface which can be used by ignorant, unt

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

On 4-Aug-2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur T.) wrote: > My definition is similar, but not matching. I figure > it's an interface that makes common tasks *very* easy to > do, but makes uncommon tasks either impossible or very > difficult to do (even if you know how). > > Most (but not a

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

On 4 Aug 2005 06:52:53 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main (Message-ID:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (McKown, John) wrote: My impression is that a "dumbed down interface" is the one the other guy uses. My concept of a "dumbed down interface" is really "an interface which can be used by

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

On 4-Aug-2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (McKown, John) wrote: > > My impression is that a "dumbed down interface" is the one > > the other guy uses. > > My concept of a "dumbed down interface" is really "an interface which > can be used by ignorant, untrained, underpaid, unskilled employees". One > syst

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In a message dated 8/4/2005 8:53:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >My concept of a "dumbed down interface" is really "an interface which >can be used by ignorant, untrained, underpaid, unskilled employees". One >system here had a design criterion of allowing high sc

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

a young Mainframe Systems Programmer > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:42 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:42 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer > > > My i

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

On 4-Aug-2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) wrote: > >The times have changed and there is a significant need to dumb down > > (yeah, I said it) the interface. > > I disagree. The time has come to make the interface easier, but not > dumber. I'm not sure what a dumbed down inter

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/01/2005 at 07:05 PM, Francisco Medina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >The times have changed and there is a significant need to dumb down > (yeah, I said it) the interface. I disagree. The time has come to make the interface easier, but not dumber. >So back to Tyler

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

Dave you are one twisted puppy . :o) "Strong typing is for people with weak memories." Almost good enough to steal for a sig. Shane ... > Not much OT; > > http://www.guidenet.net/resources/programmers.html -- For IBM-MA

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

Not much OT; http://www.guidenet.net/resources/programmers.html DC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at htt

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

Editiors on z/os? Better include "EDIT" Leaving it out would be like excluding VI from a list of unix Editors. EDIT is there and it still works -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAI

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In a message dated 8/3/2005 6:53:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then what is the EDLIN equivalent of, e.g., calling a CLIST from within EDIT? >> Line mode, text commands. All I said was similar not a replacement for. -

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/03/2005 at 09:52 AM, Ed Finnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >Wrong again. Then what is the EDLIN equivalent of, e.g., calling a CLIST from within EDIT? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In a message dated 8/3/2005 6:07:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: take it that you've never used EDLIN? Not at all like TSO EDIT. >> Wrong again. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive ac

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/02/2005 at 09:54 AM, Ed Finnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >TSO Edit. Works a lot like EDLIN in DOS. I take it that you've never used EDLIN? Not at all like TSO EDIT. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/02/2005 at 08:01 AM, "McKown, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >How many editors are there on z/OS? Basically just one FSVO one larger than the standard value ;-) -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

>How many editors are there on z/OS? Basically just one - >ISPF/PDF. Well, I guess Roscoe (don't know how popular that is anymore). >Oh, and for the rich people there is WSED. There's ZZSA. So handy it doesn't even need z/OS to run. And then there's every editor for Linux. Don't forget Display

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

On Aug 2, 2005, at 9:22 PM, Don Leahy wrote: ---SNIP--- Putting ISPF aside for a moment, do they know about DFSORT symbols? How about IF/ENDIF in JCL streams? Or are they still coding and testing as if this was 1989? These are not obscure or arcane feature

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

- Original Message - From: "Dave Salt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> < SNIP> I couldn't agree more. However, anyone who thinks the standard ISPF interface is the only mainframe interface available has absolutely NO idea what they're missing. Making things worse is that the capabilities of t

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

On Aug 1, 2005, at 8:31 PM, Robert Justice wrote: rant mode on well, speaking of 'friendly" user-interfaces, he could learn to use vi on unix where the 'friendly" way of doing something simple like signing the "he" 'double toothpicks' off" is to do Shift, Capital ZZ or "bang" Q berkley produ

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

John McKown How many editors are there on z/OS? Basically just one - ISPF/PDF. ISPF lets you choose from a very wide range of editors. For example, when I'm in a member list and select a member using "E" for Edit, the member opens instantly on my desktop in the NOTEPAD editor. When I've finish

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

SuperWylbur is not dead yet... http://www.superwylbur.com/ Thanks, Sam -Original Message- And Superwylbur. I used them both 30 Jurassic years ago. Bill Fairchild <> This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confiden

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

Another IBM mainframe editor I've used is SYSD. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archi

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

Fax: +1.214.800.8989 ** > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Timothy Sipples > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 1:42 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In a message dated 8/2/2005 11:23:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Dont forget WYLBUR !! And Superwylbur. I used them both 30 Jurassic years ago. Bill Fairchild -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe /

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:54:52 EDT, Ed Finnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >In a message dated 8/2/2005 8:11:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >How many editors are there on z/OS? Basically just one - >ISPF/PDF. Well, I guess Roscoe (don't know how popular that is anymore

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

So back to Tyler and his dilemma what would you do when looking at the current status of the industry and the road ahead? Tyler has had a friend who is a Manager of the Technical department for a Unix shop begging for him for years to come automate the system, so throw that into the mix. Consider

z/OS Editors (Was: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer)

John Mckown wrote: How many editors are there on z/OS? Basically just one - ISPF/PDF. Well, I guess Roscoe (don't know how popular that is anymore). Oh, and for the rich people there is WSED. >> Ed Finnell wrote: TSO Edit. Works a lot like EDLIN in DOS. >> The Edit/Update function in the CB

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

In a message dated 8/2/2005 8:11:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How many editors are there on z/OS? Basically just one - ISPF/PDF. Well, I guess Roscoe (don't know how popular that is anymore). Oh, and for the rich people there is WSED. >> TSO Edit. Works a lot

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

You mean kind of like stopping a trace by using: trace ct,on Craig -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Justice Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

Heh. I was thinking the same thing: as part of our shutdown procedure we issue commands along the lines of "S TESTSHUT," etc. Jon Heueueue, don't you ADCD users S SHUTDOWN at the system console to bring your system down? --

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Robert Justice > > okay, one more, yes, he could learn to use windows where in > order to "shutdown" the system, you must first hit the START button. Alt+F4 initiates shutdown without the START button :-)

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Justice > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:32 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer > > > rant mod

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

way of the future is anymore ! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Justice Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer "Jan MOEYERSONS&quo

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

"Jan MOEYERSONS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >okay, one more, yes, he could learn to use windows where in order to "shutdown" the system, you must first hit the START button. Heueueue, don't you ADCD users S SHUTDOWN at the system console to bring your system do

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

>okay, one more, yes, he could learn to use windows >where in order to "shutdown" the system, you must first >hit the START button. Heueueue, don't you ADCD users S SHUTDOWN at the system console to bring your system down? Jantje. -

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

How does anything in that story apply uniquely to zSeries? Outsourcing to India (and elsewhere) is, if anything, more prevalent off zSeries than on. UNIX? The overall UNIX market is in decline, and UNIX outsources as well as anything. "Tyler" ought to make sure that he knows WebSphere, Linux

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

From: Francisco Medina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> SNIP The times have changed and there is a significant need to “dumb down” (yeah, I said it) the interface. This is entirely why Windows is such a huge success. The interface is appealing and makes things “ultra-simple” for the user. Most of us here co

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

okay, one more, yes, he could learn to use windows where in order to "shutdown" the system, you must first hit the START button. (Note that if us mainframers did something like that we'd be crucified). I really am done this time speaking of behalf of "friendly" inerfaces. . -

Re: Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

rant mode on well, speaking of 'friendly" user-interfaces, he could learn to use vi on unix where the 'friendly" way of doing something simple like signing the "he" 'double toothpicks' off" is to do Shift, Capital ZZ or "bang" Q berkley produced both lsd and unix (and that's not a coincidence)

Dilemma of a young Mainframe Systems Programmer

This is being posted on behalf of a close friend named Tyler. I know he is “lurking” in close proximity. Tyler was a young naïve boy right out of high school, working as a temporary Computer Operator for a large company (a starting spot that many on the list hold near and dear to their hearts). Ove