In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/10/2007
at 02:59 PM, Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Here again, I have similar experiences with medics. When I got bitten
by a cottonmouth at Ft. Polk, the medic-types were worse than
useless, but the guy that saved my b*tt in 'Nam after I was stung by
a
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 05/10/2007
at 02:24 PM, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
The President of the United States get, what, a $400,000 annual
salary? And a tenure limited by the Constitution to 8 years maximum.
And quite a variety of perq for the rest of his life.
Explain that!
Power
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 05/10/2007
at 12:43 PM, Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
No, there wasn't any disciplinary action. Also, during my year over
there 2 people were killed by accidental firearm discharges. See any
correlation?
None that wasn't predictable :-(
--
Shmuel
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed Gould
[ snip ]
I think I had similar experience. I had pneumonia and they
made me walk to the hospital which was about 2 miles away.
The sergeant got court martialed (sp?) I believe for making
me walk
In a message dated 5/11/2007 7:30:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Interesting that one of our premier IBM-bashers felt safer in a
place that runs IBM computers.
Our regional Hospital had a terrible outage with their dual AS/400's(and of
course no backup) and
In a message dated 5/11/2007 9:43:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A triple bypass is elective surgery?
Think it was one of those 'you probably need angioplasty' and was scheduled
and suddenly started having chest pains and just went downhill...six or seven
A triple bypass is elective surgery?
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 05/11/2007
09:45:26 AM:
Our regional Hospital had a terrible outage with their dual AS/400's(and
of
course no backup) and decided to convert. Well all the IBMer's who were
planning elective
On May 11, 2007, at 7:30 AM, Chase, John wrote:
-SNIP
Interesting that one of our premier IBM-bashers felt safer in a
place that runs IBM computers.
:-D
John:
I am flattered to think you think I am an IBM basher. I believe I
am a person who calls a duck a
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 05/08/2007
at 07:10 AM, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
If you punish success, who will take the risks?
How is punishing success worse than rewarding failure, which is what
we currently do for high-profile CEO's?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 05/08/2007
at 09:04 AM, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Why would you, as a stockholder, want to hire somebody you *know*
will leave you broke?
The BOD doesn't consult with the stockholders when selecting a CEO.
Stockholder suits asking for a more direct roles in
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/08/2007
at 09:08 PM, R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Oh, yeas, there are such regulators!
In your imagination.
Invented by Marx, Engels, implemented by Lenin, tuned by Stalin.
Get your red herrings while they're fresh.
Been there.
Where you've been has nothing to
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/09/2007
at 11:43 AM, Dave Kopischke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
The Elites I'm talking about are the fictitious few who would
decide on who gets what in the context of the post I was replying
to.
The elites that should decide such matters are the stockholders.
Board
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/09/2007
at 09:09 PM, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I am not sure I agree with you at all on this one. Of course I look
at it a little differently than a typical GI. My bosses were GS12's
13's and 14's and I think I had a GS 15 who was their boss. My
limited
In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 05/09/2007
at 03:13 PM, Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Interesting! I had a similar experience my second day in that
'tropical climate'. Someone was cleaning a machine gun on the table
across from me and almost shot my guts out when he pulled the trigger
snip
When I was in basic, cleaning a firearm without examining it properly to
ensure that it was fully unloaded would have gotten me a boot in my
behind. Doing it on the range would have gotten me an Article 15 at
best. Was there any disciplinary action in your case?
/snip
No, there wasn't any
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour
J.)
[ snip ]
Effects: In Albania salary of minister was 2.5 times larger than
cleaning lady.
ROTF,LMAO! The nominal salary and the real salary were quite
different. Party bosses lived
Chase, John wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour
J.)
[ snip ]
Effects: In Albania salary of minister was 2.5 times larger than
cleaning lady.
ROTF,LMAO! The nominal salary and the real salary were quite
In a message dated 5/10/2007 2:24:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Explain that!
P O W E R!
** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
--
For IBM-MAIN
---snip---
The civil servants, NCO's, officers and warrant officers that I
encountered *after* training were mostly competent, although the
paramedics in basic training almost killed me by not allowing me to see
a doctor when I had pneumonia[1]. One
On May 10, 2007, at 6:54 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
--
SNIP
[1] I'm not sure that I had pneumonia the first time that I went on
sick call, but when I collapsed after two weeks of APC they
The problem with CEO compensation is twofold. It is not based on company
performance as witnessed by Robert Nardelli at Home Depot who got a nice 210
million dollar going away present for performance so bad that investors lost
money during his reign. Secondly, boards of directors, specifically
SNIP
And why pick on CEOs ??? You should be going after anyone who earns more
than the amount the elites decide is too much and probably anyone who
earns less than the amount the elites decide is too little. Wouldn't
that be fair ??? Or maybe that would be too fair ???
/snip
What elites are you
On Wed, 9 May 2007 07:26:34 -0400, Veilleux, Jon L wrote:
What elites are you talking about? Is that a synonym for 'liberal'???
The ones who decide on CEO compensation now are mostly CEOs from other
companies who are on the boards of directors of multiple companies. I
know you're not talking
I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical climate
where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and maybe a water
buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB before attempting
to clean it. In my (somewhat limited) experience, the officers were
there to get
ran the Army while the officers fought the
battles and collected the medals. Needless to say, I have a very low
opinion of high-flying leaders that don't share the hardships of
those who are led.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#61 Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs
for IBM
My son is sgt in iraq at moment (4th tour of duty in ME). Other than diet
and humidity, little has changed. he is battle nco running a unit. when
battle captain is not there, he has to do that job in addition to his
own.
before deploy, he had a mandatory training mission. he had to
On Wed, 9 May 2007 14:43:46 -0400, Kirk Talman wrote:
My son is sgt in iraq at moment (4th tour of duty in ME). Other than diet
and humidity, little has changed. he is battle nco running a unit. when
battle captain is not there, he has to do that job in addition to his
own.
before deploy, he
snip
I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical climate
where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and maybe a water
buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB before attempting
to clean it.
/snip
Interesting! I had a similar experience my second day in that
On May 9, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote:
I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical
climate where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and
maybe a water buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB
before attempting to clean it. In my (somewhat
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
snip--
Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even
more money.
first
response We
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Robert Justice
exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this
country, and in some cases, like the one idiot that got
almost 400 million, by 99%.
Perhaps we should consider dumbing ourselves down to the
Chase, John wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
snip--
Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even
more money.
first
snip
If you punish success, who will take the risks?
/snip
CEO's don't face the risks for their failures. Their pay and benefits
are guaranteed. In my experience it is the employees (through lower pay,
lost benefits, and/or lost jobs) and the stockholders who pay the price
for CEO failure. A
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of [various]
CEO's don't face the risks for their failures. Their pay and
benefits are guaranteed.
If they don't face risks, how/why do they get guarantees like that?
What, exactly, does a CEO do to warrant their
On 7 May 2007 19:06:18 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rick Fochtman)
wrote:
We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-)
unsnip
Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get
to keep.
So the CEOs get offshored where they
How much do *you* think a CEO is worth?
most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do
mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops.
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff /
On 8 May 2007 09:28:38 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Justice)
wrote:
How much do *you* think a CEO is worth?
most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do
mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops.
What process should stockholders use to
Robert Justice wrote:
exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and
in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%.
Huh?? Lee Raymond was certainly no idiot! In his 12 years as CEO he
handled take-overs of -- among others -- Canada's Imperial Oil,
Edward Jaffe wrote:
Robert Justice wrote:
exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and
in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%.
Huh?? Lee Raymond was certainly no idiot! In his 12 years as CEO he
handled take-overs of -- among others --
On 8 May 2007 11:24:54 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edward Jaffe)
wrote:
XOM shareholders overwhelmingly agree Mr. Raymond's accomplishments were
worth every penny awarded him by the board -- literally a drop in the
bucket when compared to the company's capitalization and quarterly
dividend
Mark Jacobs wrote:
One man/person doesn't do it all. Exxon/Mobil succeeded because of the
efforts of all its employees not only the CEO.
Exactly right! Employee morale under Mr. Raymond's leadership was
*extremely* high! Such unprecedented corporate success requires true
leadership and, by
Take it to a politics group please. Where is the list owner?
-Original Message-
XOM shareholders overwhelmingly agree Mr. Raymond's accomplishments
were worth every penny awarded him by the board -- literally a drop in
the bucket when compared to the company's capitalization and
Howard Brazee wrote:
On 8 May 2007 09:28:38 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Justice)
wrote:
How much do *you* think a CEO is worth?
most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do
mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops.
What process
Howard Brazee wrote:
Would the stockholders have been better off by paying him either half
that amount or twice that amount? Did some other company offer him
$399,999.999.99 so they needed to pay him more to keep him?
I doubt he ever considered working elsewhere. Raymond was a loyal
In a message dated 5/7/2007 10:19:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
... we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country...
Who is we and how do we do that? Pass a law? With or without 100 pages
of fine print? Who enforces it? How do we keep him from
Darren, Please kill this thread. Repetitive use of the delete key is giving us
carpel tunnel.
Somebody please kill this political thread.
Bill Fairchild
Plainfield, IL
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails
of the last
]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Howard Brazee wrote:
On 8 May 2007 09:28:38 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Justice)
wrote:
How much do *you* think a CEO is worth?
most of them
On Mon, 7 May 2007 22:12:43 -0400, Robert Justice wrote:
exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in
some
cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%.
I'd really like to be that stupid. For that kind of money, you can call me
whatever names you
On Tue, 8 May 2007 21:08:26 +0200, R.S. wrote:
Oh, yeas, there are such regulators!
Invented by Marx, Engels, implemented by Lenin, tuned by Stalin.
Been there.
Wisdom from someone who's been where this thread is headed.
Be careful of what you wish for.
You mean the amount of compensation Adolf Hitler was entitled to? That was
easy to understand. Anything he wanted, no questions asked.
G, D, R (From Darren) :-)
On Tue, 8 May 2007 16:11:10 -0500, Dave Kopischke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 8 May 2007 21:08:26 +0200, R.S. wrote:
Oh,
What Risks? They make a decision which is either good or bad? The input
provided in making this decision is provided by subordinates.
CEOs are simply paid to much. When someone in their company is looking
to get a 3% percent raise they say we can't afford that Are you trying
to put this
On May 8, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Chase, John wrote:
--SNIP-
It's always the privates who get shot, bombed, stabbed, burned,
etc.,
while occasionally a general will get forced retirement but more
often will acquire another command with another bunch of
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Gould) writes:
John,
I agree with you on this issue ... somewhat.
I was in the Army (over in Germany) and our base was a 'stepping
stone for generals. They
snip
When we take the easy choice for short term protection, we're
betraying my grandchildren's future.That's the nature of politics,
but I value them more.
/snip
Short term and long term we need to make a level field. That involves
making trade agreements that have a minimum set of
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/07/2007
at 08:42 AM, Howard Brazee [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Yes, the competition hurts me.But passing a law saying we can't
have foreign partners is passing a law saying we can't have foreign
customers.
However, lowering barriers in one direction while retaining
snip--
Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money.
first response
We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-)
10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
snip--
Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money.
first response
We should start by offshoring
On May 7, 2007, at 9:05 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote:
snip--
Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more
money.
first response
We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-)
In a message dated 5/7/2007 9:13:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in some
cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%.
Which one?
AMEN!
Bill
From: Robert Justice [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:15:55 -0400
I just wonder how long it's going to be before people finally
Did anyone read this?
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20070504_002027.html
Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
Did anyone read this?
Yes, and I've lived it!
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search
I just wonder how long it's going to be before people finally WAKE UP in
this country and quit putting up with the offshoring, the outsourcing, the
free trade b.s, the H1B visa SCAM and completely idiotic ceo compensation.
.
When will we ditch Capitalism ?
Kill us, Darren !
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Justice
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 8:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
I just
capitalism is one thing, CORPORATE GREED AND CORPORATE STUPIDITY is
something else entirely.
- Original Message -
From: Campbell Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S
Different topic... Sorry
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Justice
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
capitalism is one thing, CORPORATE
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