I think even the ones that abuse the list the most still provide assistance
from time to time that is very useful. I completely understand that oftentimes
they want the person to RTFM, which makes a lot of sense because you also don't
want the list to become a primary school. The "new guys"
Assembler is only relevant to the Machine.
Joe
On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 12:23 AM Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> Assembler is only relevant to the Runtime
>
> Matt Hogstrom
> PGP key 0F143BC1
>
> > On Sep 3, 2023, at 13:26, Paul Gilmartin <
> 042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
Assembler is only relevant to the Runtime
Matt Hogstrom
PGP key 0F143BC1
> On Sep 3, 2023, at 13:26, Paul Gilmartin
> <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> How important are Assembler skills for a Linux for zSeries applications
> programmer?
> A systems programmer?
No. writing "Anyone who thinks learning it now is a worthwhile exercise is a
fool." is more arrogant.
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 3, 2023 10:56 PM
I learned that in 1981 during Assembler class.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 8:31 PM, Doug Fuerst
wrote:
Assembler is not machine language.
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
>From "Bernd Oppolzer"
To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 9/3/2023
Nothing more arrogant than saying someone isn’t a systems programmer unless
they have my abilities. And your education is meaningless, just ask Gabe
Goldberg or “machine language” Bernd.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 8:59 PM, David Spiegel
Again, I didn’t say assembler programming is dead, but it’s been dying for
decades.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 10:51 PM, Leonard D Woren
wrote:
It proves nothing, so your your conclusion is wrong. You just don't
know where the assembler programmers are
It proves nothing, so your your conclusion is wrong. You just don't
know where the assembler programmers are working. We're working for
the software vendors that most companies pay lots of money to because
they don't want to hire their own assembler programmers. Fine with
me, except that
++1 [IEFUSI]
On 9/3/2023 5:24 PM, David Spiegel wrote:
HI Bill,
More vacuous and specious arguments.
You said: "... In fact, making changes to delivered software
can be dangerous. ..."
Writing/modifying Exits is not the same as your statement.
It is evident from what you've written, that
Hi Bill,
Besides showing arrogance, you're displaying your ignorance as well.
You said: "...Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer ..."
For your information, I have a combined CompSci degree with business and
mathematics from University of Toronto, the best school in Canada.
I've
Assembler is not machine language.
Doug Fuerst
-- Original Message --
From "Bernd Oppolzer"
To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date 9/3/2023 17:16:05 PM
Subject Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive
+1
and I believe, I said virtually the same before, that makes 2 persons
Am
If I’m still alive in 5 years, I’m going to laugh at these kind of “it can’t be
done” comments.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 7:07 PM, Jeremy Nicoll
wrote:
On Sun, 3 Sep 2023, at 23:59, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Easy, the Vendors will have it set up for you to
I’ve heard this nonsense before. Lots of blue collar workers told me in the
70’s their job can’t be automated. My brother worked for GM in the paint shop.
Said painters will always have a job. Guess what. It’s all done by robots.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023,
Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re
likely an installer of zOS.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 7:14 PM, g...@gabegold.com
wrote:
None of "DB2 DBA, DASD Admin, contractor, programmer analyst, manager of
operations,
You'll rely on vendors anticipating with variables every possible requirement
for every installation? What happens when management comes to IT with an urgent
business case-justified request? Tell them so sad, too bad, our vendor doesn't
allow that? You consider filling in variables to be system
None of "DB2 DBA, DASD Admin, contractor, programmer analyst, manager of
operations, programmer, and Operations" are system programming -- so aren't
relevant to this discussion.
Many people calling themselves system programmers are in fact
installers/configurers/administrators. Those are all
On Sun, 3 Sep 2023, at 23:59, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Easy, the Vendors will have it set up for you to fill in some
> variables.
And if the variables they defined don't cover the /site/-specific
needs (that the vendors know nothing about)?
> On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 6:48 PM, Jeremy Nicoll
Easy, the Vendors will have it set up for you to fill in some variables. White
collar IT workers will be automated out of jobs. The first wave of automation
killed blue collar jobs. The next wave will eliminate lots of white collar jobs.
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On Sunday, September
On Sun, 3 Sep 2023, at 23:41, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Anyone considering assembler training first off will be hard pressed to
> find any training classes, and in 5 years AI will be able to produce
> better assembler programs than anyone here can write.
How will anyone spec for the AI precisely
Anyone considering assembler training first off will be hard pressed to find
any training classes, and in 5 years AI will be able to produce better
assembler programs than anyone here can write.
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On Sunday, September 3, 2023, 4:41 PM, g...@gabegold.com
wrote:
Sure David, I’ve never been a Systems Programmer other than the last 19 years.
Before that, I was a DB2 DBA, DASD Admin, contractor, programmer analyst,
manager of operations, programmer, and Operations for one of the largest auto
companies on the planet. I’ve worked in numerous industries,
HI Bill,
More vacuous and specious arguments.
You said: "... In fact, making changes to delivered software can be
dangerous. ..."
Writing/modifying Exits is not the same as your statement.
It is evident from what you've written, that you've never been a Systems
Programmer, the highest
+1
and I believe, I said virtually the same before, that makes 2 persons :-)
Am 03.09.2023 um 22:41 schrieb g...@gabegold.com:
That "one person's experience" was widely shared among the VM community --
hundreds of people collectively helping their installations benefit from what assembler
That "one person's experience" was widely shared among the VM community --
hundreds of people collectively helping their installations benefit from what
assembler language enables.
You might consider taking your own advice: 1 persons experience doesn’t prove
anything.
"The fact is..." is an
On Sun, 3 Sep 2023 10:45:28 -0500, g...@gabegold.com wrote:
>I've only had three jobs (3, 14, 6 years duration) before switching to
>freelance writing/editing/consulting in 1994. But I'll chime in anyway with my
>experience using assembler as a critical part of my work. I learned and used
>it
I have been a part of this list (and RACF) for decades. I have found
valuable insights here, and even more valuable help for specific
situations. I am deeply grateful for the help you all have been giving me
along theses years and I hope to be around here for a few more years. There
are a very few
1 persons experience doesn’t prove anything. The fact is assembler is becoming
less and less important as a skillset. Anyone who thinks learning it now is a
worthwhile exercise is a fool. Yeah, I went through college when Assembler was
a mandatory course and COBOL was an elective. Guess which
I've only had three jobs (3, 14, 6 years duration) before switching to
freelance writing/editing/consulting in 1994. But I'll chime in anyway with my
experience using assembler as a critical part of my work. I learned and used it
at IBM doing operating system development.
Second job was at
One thing to consider is the affects on the new kids on the block - those who
want to, and/or are trying to, learn the mainframe. They come here looking for
a professional list from which to ask questions and to learn from. What is the
impression they are receiving and will they stay or will
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