Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Thank you for a better memory than mine. Yes, those were the terms the instructor used when I heard the story – AM1 (Access Method 1) for the original grand design, and AM0 for what we got instead. Peter From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Saturday, May 25, 20

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

On Fri, 24 May 2024 at 15:59, Farley, Peter < 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > In the mid-1970’s (or it may have been the early 1980’s, the memory is > fainter now) I took an operating systems overview class at a technical > college nearby, and the instructor was an IBM Fel

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

I didn't see where Lynn mentioned VSAM development, but several Future Systems posts leading to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Future_Systems_project , where it became S38, AS/400, IBM i. https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/index.html#archpost is his posts. On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 7:36 PM rpinion865

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

What you described about VSAM is what I heard too, a replacement of the then dominant access methods. Sent from Proton Mail Android Original Message On 5/24/24 8:18 PM, Joel C. Ewing wrote: > VSAM KSDS datasets were a clear win as a replacement for Indexed > Sequental (ISA

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

VSAM KSDS datasets were a clear win as a replacement for Indexed Sequental (ISAM) datasets when adding large numbers of keyed records.  I saw cases where a KSDS implementation literally ran two orders of magnitude faster  than ISAM and also took less DASD space, because ISAM required  that unbl

Re: Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters

On Fri, 24 May 2024 22:09:45 +, Farley, Peter wrote: >Thanks Sri, that was the trick (as Dana also replied). > >From: IB Sri Hari Kolusu >Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 4:45 PM > > >Try with single quotes before SPACE parm > >cp -W "seqparms='SPACE=(CYL,(5,5)),RECFM=VB,LRECL=259,BLKSIZE=0'" >$HO

Re: Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters

Thanks Sri, that was the trick (as Dana also replied). From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Sri Hari Kolusu Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 4:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters Peter, Try with single quotes before S

Re: Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters

Thank you, that was the trick I needed. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Dana Mitchell Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 4:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters at the example in the man pages, do you need another set o

Re: Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters

Peter, Try with single quotes before SPACE parm cp -W "seqparms='SPACE=(CYL,(5,5)),RECFM=VB,LRECL=259,BLKSIZE=0'" $HOME/testfile.txt "//'TSOUSER.NEWFILE'" Thanks, -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instruct

Re: Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters

Looking at the example in the man pages, do you need another set of quotes?: cp -W "seqparms='RECFM=U,space=(500,100)'" file "//'turbo.gammalib'" On Fri, 24 May 2024 20:01:02 +, Farley, Peter wrote: >What is wrong with this syntax for a cp command to copy a Unix file system >file to an

Syntax error using Unix cp command with "-W" parameters

What is wrong with this syntax for a cp command to copy a Unix file system file to an MVS file: $ cp -W seqparms="SPACE=(CYL,(5,5)),RECFM=VB,LRECL=259,BLKSIZE=0" $HOME/testfile.txt "//'TSOUSER.NEWFILE'" cp: FSUMF365 Syntax error on -W argument : Unknown keyword (5. I have read and re-read the

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

In the mid-1970’s (or it may have been the early 1980’s, the memory is fainter now) I took an operating systems overview class at a technical college nearby, and the instructor was an IBM Fellow whose name I have long since forgotten, but in one class he told us a story about how VSAM came to be

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

I just grabbed the first one I found at bitsavers. AFAIK, everything from BOS up supported a VTOC on DASD from day one, other than the card and tape only software. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר

Re: IDz and RDz?

In fact, it's now transcendental. As Aristophenes wrote in Cambridge, e**x dy dx, e**x dx. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of St

Re: IDz and RDz?

LOL! Sent with Proton Mail secure email. On Friday, May 24th, 2024 at 2:33 PM, Steve Horein <05b0b4f1358b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Is it now Irrational? > > > On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 7:08 AM Jousma, David < > 01a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > >

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Hi Tony, I meant that the (DEFINE) SPACE would be similar to a PDS and the SUBALLOCATED Clusters would be similar to  members in that PDS (SPACE). Regards, David On 2024-05-24 14:26, Tony Harminc wrote: On Fri, 24 May 2024 at 11:31, David Spiegel < 0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.e

Re: IDz and RDz?

Is it now Irrational? On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 7:08 AM Jousma, David < 01a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > RDz is the old name for IDz when it was still Rational.Current version > of iDZ is 16.04.If all the hosts you connect to are current with > regards to RSED task,

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

On Fri, 24 May 2024 at 11:31, David Spiegel < 0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Hi Rex, > VVDSs came with ICF. Before that, VSAM Clusters were ALLOCATED as either > SUBALLOCATION or UNIQUE. > SUBALLOCATION meant that the user ALLOCATED a "cloud" (i.e. DEFINE > SPACE) to hold

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Even earlier, in November, 1966, https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/dos/C24-5036-1_DOS_System_Control_and_System_Service_Programs_Nov1966.pdf Bottom of page 53 references VTOCs -- Tom Marchant On Fri, 24 May 2024 17:21:43 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Nope. >

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Having the information about the contents of a volume on the volume itself allows the volume to be used on more than one system. If that information was stored in the catalog, that would not be practical. DASD devices were not nearly as reliable as they are today, even without RAID. When a volu

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Nope. The fact had DLAB and DLBL statements does not mean that the was no VTOC. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖

Re: IBM LDAP 4.4 Weak Key Exchange Vulnerability Issue

Thanks David. The did the trick. Have a good weekend -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

When using a VSAM catalog, all of the VSAM datasets on a given volume needed to be catalogued in the same VSAM catalog. This restriction was removed when ICF catalogs and VVDS datasets were introduced with DF/EF, which was a package available as an add-on to MVS/SP3, I think. Lennie -Origin

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

VTOCs were introduced in a release of DOS/VS after the one we were using. We definitely used //DLBL statement to specify disk extents. Lennie -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: 24 May 2024 11:29 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject:

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Or one dataset on 59 DASD volumes. Get one out of order you might have problems. On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 8:21 AM billogden wrote: > > Subject: Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs > > I'm curious whether any of you old-timers can explain why we have both > VTOCs and catalogs. > > Please note that you can have

Re: hints and tips and help for Git and GitHub for mainframers

DogeCICS is a live git project you can use. (Linux on iOS or Android, Mocha 3270 lite), Hercules, TK 4- or 5, KicksForTSO, 3270 emulator. On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 8:05 AM Rick Troth <058ff5c2d0a7-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > howdy folks ... > > I was asked this week for help with G

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Hi Rex, VVDSs came with ICF. Before that, VSAM Clusters were ALLOCATED as either SUBALLOCATION or UNIQUE. SUBALLOCATION meant that the user ALLOCATED a "cloud" (i.e. DEFINE SPACE) to hold 1 or more VSAM suballocated Dataset. It was conceptually similar to a PDS and Members. Regards, David On

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

If I remember correctly (since I started on DOS R26?) on a S/360-30, we also had to use EXTENT cards (to define where a file existed on a volume). So hazy memory recalls we had a Label cylinder and an ALT Label cylinder. But maybe that came with DOS/VS Too long ago now. Then DOS got VTOCs

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

VSAM certainly didn't replace PDS. Too bad they didn't port VAM from TSS. In Eunix there is no catalog of file systems that you can mount. "Every OS Sucks", Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http:/

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

David, Since you are obviously my elder in the field, please enlighten me as to what the VVDS was before the ICF catalog came along. When I started, VSAM catalogs were still a thing (as were CVOLs I think) but we never had them at my shop. I was taught that the VVDS and BCS structures were th

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

On Thu, 23 May 2024 22:24:06 -0500, Mike Schwab wrote: > >VSAM came from the Future Systems development as a complete >replacement, Lynn Wheeler has posts about that. >It was cut back to be an addition to MVS, then combined with CVOL >catalogs to ICF. > "complete replacement" of what, specifically?

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Correction: VTOC index came with DFDS but VVDS came with ICF in DF/EF. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Seymour J Metz Sent: F

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

VVDS came with DFDS. ICF and קריעת תחת came with DF/EF. Things got better with DFP and DFSMS. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Hi Rex, You said: "...I never worked with either CVOLs or VSAM catalogs ..." If I may take the Bible out of context, please see: DE 32:7 זְקֵנֶ֖יךָ וְיֹ֥אמְרוּ לָֽךְ "... Remember the days of old, Consider the years of ages past; Ask your parent, who will inform you, Your elders, who will tell yo

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

On Fri, 24 May 2024 09:21:30 -0400, billogden wrote: > >Please note that you can have datasets with exactly the same name on >different volumes, but only one can be cataloged. This was (and might still >be) a common practice for sysprogs who try to maintain a system. (I still do >it when it is conv

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

DOS/VS did indeed have VTOCs on each volume with entries for all datasets allocated on the volume.   MVS could see and potentially read compatible DASD datasets created by DOS/VS, but you didn't want to share drives between DOS/VS and MVS because DOS/VS didn't track changes to free space and wo

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Hi David, This is the part I was commenting on. " Then came VSAM (and VVDS?) and VSAM Catalogs,...". I took that comment as being Dave guessing that possibly the VVDS came along with VSAM catalogs which I believe were a stepping stone between CVOLs and ICF catalogs. I never worked with eit

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Yes, absolutely. MVS systems were becoming larger and creating backups was becoming an issue. Backing up to physical tape was the only real option then. Not only were there more volumes, but there were more datasets that spanned volumes. Before ICF catalogs, catalog records contained VSAM time

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Hi Rex, "...Followed by SMS and VVDS for non-VSAM datasets ..." This was meant (AFAIK) to state that VVDS for Non-VSAMs came into use with SMS-Controlled DASD Volumes. It is also true that VVDSs were introduced with ICF Catalogs (circa 1981, recalled and re-released in 1982). Regards, David O

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Didn't the VVDS come along with the ICF catalog structure? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 10:32 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs All speculation on my part. One sys

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

Subject: Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs > I'm curious whether any of you old-timers can explain why we have both VTOCs and catalogs. Please note that you can have datasets with exactly the same name on different volumes, but only one can be cataloged. This was (and might still be) a common practice for sy

Re: hints and tips and help for Git and GitHub for mainframers

I might be able to help you with some that focus on using Git using ZIGI. DM me on discord or direct email. Lionel B. Dyck <>< Github: https://github.com/lbdyck System Z Enthusiasts Discord: https://discord.gg/sze “Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you ar

hints and tips and help for Git and GitHub for mainframers

howdy folks ... I was asked this week for help with Git. The target audience is mainframe people. (But I don't expect to be presenting.) I had previously helped this particular group get on-board using Git and GitHub, but that was several months ago. They're again looking at it, so their lea

Re: IDz and RDz?

RDz is the old name for IDz when it was still Rational.Current version of iDZ is 16.04.If all the hosts you connect to are current with regards to RSED task, then you should be able to ditch RDZ Dave Jousma Vice President | Director, Technology Engineering From: IBM Mainframe Discus

IDz and RDz?

I currently have both IDz and RDz installed. Do I lose any functionality if I uninstall RDz? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר -- For IBM-MAIN subscrib

Re: IBM LDAP 4.4 Weak Key Exchange Vulnerability Issue

Yes. In ds.conf set the FIPS state. LDAP automagically sets the key sizes higher. # sslFipsState # # Default Value: Off # # Description: # The sslFipsState option specifies the FIPS state for the LDAP server. # When FIPS mode turned on, it is more restrictive with respect to # cryptogra

IBM LDAP 4.4 Weak Key Exchange Vulnerability Issue

GM, Has anyone had issues remediating IBM LDAP 4.4 "Weak Key Exchange" vulnerability on their secure port? Attempting to provide Cipher combos in slapd.env with no success. sslCipherSpecs GSK_V3_CIPHER_SPECS_EXPANDED=00380039 or sslCipherSpecs GSK_V3_CIPHER_SPECS_EXPANDED=C027C028 In

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

They say that the memory is the scond thing to go; I can't remember the first. From DOS/VS Data Management Guide "In order to locate any particular file, there is a table on each volu

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

When I started on IBM System/370 the shop I was at used DOS/VS. DOS/VS at that time did not have VTOCs. We used //DLBL statements in JCL which specified the exact locations of datasets on disk. This changed with the introduction of VSAM on DOS/VS, but only for VSAM datasets. Fortunately I soon m

Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs

W dniu 24.05.2024 o 04:32, Phil Smith III pisze: I'm curious whether any of you old-timers can explain why we have both VTOCs and catalogs. I'm guessing it comes down to (a) VTOCs came first and catalogs were added to solve some problem (what?) and/or (b) catalogs were added to save some I/O an