Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Under OS/360 the notional, antetypical 'longest' index had the syntax Then, since values could be at most 8 characters in length, 5 x 8 + 4 yielded the maximal character count of 44. The 44-character and 8-character maxima remain; the 5-level maximum does not. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I don't recall the "official" limit. I did just allocate USER123.A.B.C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.K.L.M.N.O.P.Q.RS Not sure what this proves.. On 11/29/2013 12:49 PM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: On 11/29/2013 12:36 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: There is no "limitation ... of ... 5 levels" Hasn't been fo

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 11/29/2013 12:36 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: There is no "limitation ... of ... 5 levels" Hasn't been for a long time; perhaps never was. While I don't remember a 5-level limit, there always was (and will be?) a practical limit. Using every possible legal name, even at a single level, exhau

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

riginal Message- From: Paul Gilmartin Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:36:21 To: Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:08:59 -0600, Ze'ev At

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>Mount point is dynamic, not static. Its more analogous to volser than to device address. Again, you discuss the shortcoming of a specific system while I have a broad view. Implementation would have to take things like volser, mount points or whatever and hide them once and for all from the use

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:08:59 -0600, Ze'ev Atlas wrote: > >What I envision is a central system catalog that any file name created >(reasonably or virtually no limitations on file names, level of hierarchies or >any other such limitations [obviously more, much more than 44 characters and 5 >levels

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:06:23 +0800, David Crayford wrote: >On 6/11/2013 8:31 AM, Jon Perryman wrote: > >> ... standard security on z/OS is provided by a single programming interface >> regardless of the ESM you are using. > >It's a shame to same can't be said of the file system. In Unix >everythin

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <2290167024549142.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/28/2013 at 08:08 PM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: >What I envision is a central system catalog that any file name >created (reasonably or virtually no limitations on file names, >level of hierarchies or any other such limitations [obviou

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>Who is to say you can't have a alias DATASET name pointing to the real name >like this: Index: /user/my/data-> user.my.data >You've just invented symbolic links! I pointedly did not refer to the symbolic links so far, but I see that I have to. All solutions that were suggested here are to

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Gil, What a novel concept..geez...lol Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Nov 27, 2013, at 11:43 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:54:26 -0500, Scott Ford wrote: >> >> All, >> Who is to say you can't have a alia

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:54:26 -0500, Scott Ford wrote: >All, >Who is to say you can't have a alias DATASET name pointing to the real name >like this: > >Index: /user/my/data-> user.my.data > You've just invented symbolic links! >Of course index would need vol=ser or some how point to a cata

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

All, Who is to say you can't have a alias DATASET name pointing to the real name like this: Index: /user/my/data-> user.my.data Of course index would need vol=ser or some how point to a catalog ... JCL would also have to change to accept the naming convention used.. Just my $.02 worth Reg

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I totally agree Gerhard, my Opsys have similarities in components and structure. One just has to be aware enough , open minded enough and experienced enough to see it. As a ex-VMer I see a lot of similarities between VM and * nix Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom th

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 11/26/2013 4:42 PM, Ze'ev Atlas wrote: how do you distinguish /u/myid/somefile.txt from /u/yourid/somefile.txt? Would the catalog have both entries? If so, then if you reference "the file" via this catalog, which file do you actually access? In z/OS and precursors, you need to know the full

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>I think you forgot the in that post, Gil. z/OS is not for "the little user". Neither is UNIX (nor Linux). For a true "little user", the OS of choice might be CP/M-80 on an Altair. Or maybe an Apple ][. . It is Windows and now Android or iOS. all three have the same issues that I've discussed an

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

> how do you distinguish /u/myid/somefile.txt from /u/yourid/somefile.txt? Would the catalog have both entries? If so, then if you reference "the file" via this catalog, which file do you actually access? I did give some preliminary thought to this. To accommodate the current concepts of Unix (

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

>I interpreted "little user" as "average Windows desktop user". I don't think Ze'ev was trying to be pejorative, just trying to indicate a person who isn't a techno-geek like most of us on the list. That's what I meant Thanks ZA ---

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

We'll, the JES2 has a address field consisting of 60 characters. // DSNAME=data.set.name, 80-10-10=60, VTOC use a new DSCB value, like F7-9 for the Extended non-VSAM. Catalogs require new key size so only new catalogs with the longer key size. Control blocks: additional field with remaind

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:38:58 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > >What do you mean by "standard catalog"? How does the master catalog >differ in principle from the file system mounted as root? > One uses dots but the other uses slashes. -- gil ---

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <3241976883286959.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/25/2013 at 07:36 PM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: >The same thing about stupid limitation is the lack of standard >catalog in Unix. What do you mean by "standard catalog"? How does the master catalog differ in principle from the file sy

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I think you forgot the in that post, Gil. z/OS is not for "the little user". Neither is UNIX (nor Linux). For a true "little user", the OS of choice might be CP/M-80 on an Altair. Or maybe an Apple ][. . On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:47:39 -0600

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:47:39 -0600, John McKown wrote: > >I am confused by this. What would you put in such a catalog? The absolute >path name plus file name, such as /u/myid/some/subdir/somefile.txt ? If so, >why? If you know the name, the system knows where it is. Or do you must >mean the file na

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:56:47 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: > >2) the 44 character limitation for the data set name is a justifiable >limitation based on the original S/360 hardware and software >limitations. I would hardly call it "stupid". However, I would welcome >your detailed strategy for e

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Ze'ev Atlas wrote: > The same thing about stupid limitation is the lack of standard catalog in > Unix. That limitation needs to go away. > I am confused by this. What would you put in such a catalog? The absolute path name plus file name, such as /u/myid/some/s

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I interpreted "little user" as "average Windows desktop user". I don't think Ze'ev was trying to be pejorative, just trying to indicate a person who isn't a techno-geek like most of us on the list. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: > On 11/25/2013 8:36 PM, Ze'ev Atlas w

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 11/25/2013 8:36 PM, Ze'ev Atlas wrote: From the little user point of view, he/she knows the name of the file. As a matter of policy in most facilities (probably all), all files that the little user do and/or care for are cataloged and are somewhere in the DFSMS managed storage. Thus, if he/s

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:36:09 -0600, Ze'ev Atlas wrote: >From the little user point of view, he/she knows the name of the file. As a >matter of policy in most facilities (probably all), all files that the little >user do and/or care for are cataloged and are somewhere in the DFSMS managed >stor

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

From the little user point of view, he/she knows the name of the file. As a matter of policy in most facilities (probably all), all files that the little user do and/or care for are cataloged and are somewhere in the DFSMS managed storage. Thus, if he/she needs the file, all need to be done is

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <2742030442812276.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/25/2013 at 11:09 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht said: >I agree with what you said, but what is that 'TDIITD'? The Devil is in the details. AFAIK, I'm the first to initialize it. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <4174941754522181.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/25/2013 at 11:05 AM, Paul Gilmartin said: >Issuing the "mount" command, however, requires root privilege. That's true[1] in z/OS, but I believe that there are more options in Linux. [1] FSVO root that may not include UID(0)

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

RV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 11:09:35 AM Subject: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: >You can mount a file system without being root; TDIITD. Doing so requires that >you know where it is, just as coding UNIT= and VOL=S

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 11/25/13 12:05, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:26:22 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: at 09:20 AM, John McKown said: I don't understand this. In general in UNIX, you cannot access any of the entities in an "unmounted file system" (other than some special utilities whe

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:20:02 -0500, J R wrote: >TDIITD: One of Shmuel's favorites - "The Devil Is In The Details" Thanks J R (I wish we could learn your full name and surname, but then I respect your anonymity) and Robert Richards, for your clarifications. How could I forget that favorite!

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

TDIITD: One of Shmuel's favorites - "The Devil Is In The Details" > And yes, [Shmuel,] please keep up with your good posts! ;-) Hear, hear! = = > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:09:35 -0600 > From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za > Subject: Re: z/OS is antique

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: >You can mount a file system without being root; TDIITD. Doing so requires that >you know where it is, just as coding UNIT= and VOL=SER= does. I agree with what you said, but what is that 'TDIITD'? A

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: >You can mount a file system without being root; TDIITD. Doing so requires that >you know where it is, just as coding UNIT= and VOL=SER= does. I agree with what you said, but what is that 'TDIITD'? Acronym Police and Google won't co-operate with me. :-) Thanks i

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:26:22 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > > at 09:20 AM, John McKown said: > >>I don't understand this. In general in UNIX, you cannot access any of >>the entities in an "unmounted file system" (other than some special >>utilities when running "root"). > >You can mount

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

True. But to actually access a file, you must first do the mount command. That's where I got confused by the word "unmounted". No big deal, I'm sometimes easily confused. On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) < shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net> wrote: > In > , > on 11/25/2013 >

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 11/25/2013 at 09:20 AM, John McKown said: >I don't understand this. In general in UNIX, you cannot access any of >the entities in an "unmounted file system" (other than some special >utilities when running "root"). You can mount a file system without being root; TDIITD. Doing so requi

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) < shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net> wrote: > In <3582382321328690.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on > 11/24/2013 >at 11:43 AM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: > > >I do not care so much about the actual implementation of the idea > >and its lim

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <3582382321328690.wa.zatlas1yahoo@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/24/2013 at 11:43 AM, "Ze'ev Atlas" said: >I do not care so much about the actual implementation of the idea >and its limitations. Surely, with two antiquated OSes like z/OS >and Unix (form the nineteen sixties and seventies) t

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Ah. GMail filtered this into a different bucket, so I hadn't seen it when I wrote my reply a few minutes ago (same subject, different threading). Apologies for the "me too" post! On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 09:32:57 -0600, John McKown wrote: > >

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Ehhh...this is really comparing apples and oranges. In *IX or Windows, you say "Write file /foo/bar" and it figures out where to put it. And you never have to worry about that. If you want, you can create a link (hard or soft, in *IX, or a "shortcut" in Windows) to the file, to make it easier to fi

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

'And they'd be the size of a postage stamp...' Keynote speaker at SHARE don't remember who tho In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:32:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, l...@garlic.com writes: ranges 20-35yrs. automobiles could be considered more analogous to computers. --

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

jwgli...@gmail.com (John Gilmore) writes: > The U.S. Customs Service defines an antique artefact as something that > is at least 50 years old, and I z/OS is identified with is antetype, > OS/360, it is or will shortly be an antique. > > Now 'antique' and 'antiquated' are closely related etymologica

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 24 November 2013 14:07, John Gilmore wrote: > Now 'antique' and 'antiquated' are closely related etymologically; but > 'antiquated' is pejorative. To antiquate is to make obsolete, and I > am not sure that z/OS is obsolete. And one might reasonably also say that "antique", while not pejorativ

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

John Gilmore wrote: >I have a document in front of me that says 50 not 100 years; but I am quite >happy to stipulate 100 years instead: the difference is rhetorical rather than >material, at least in this context. I am delighted that z/OS is not yet an >antique, but my suibstantive point was t

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Sorry abut using the word antiquated if it is perceived to be pejorative. I meant to point that both z/OS and Unix are pretty old (yet both are still useful and going strong:) Both have some nifty and some not so nifty ideas. To me, at the real world workplace, whenever I have to create enviro

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I have a document in front of me that says 50 not 100 years; but I am quite happy to stipulate 100 years instead: the difference is rhetorical rather than material, at least in this context. I am delighted that z/OS is not yet an antique, but my suibstantive point was that it is not antiquated. J

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers The U.S. Customs Service defines an antique artefact as something that is at least 50 years old, and I z/OS is identified with is antetype, OS/360, it is or will shortly be an antique. Now 'antique' and 'antiquated'

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

The U.S. Customs Service defines an antique artefact as something that is at least 50 years old, and I z/OS is identified with is antetype, OS/360, it is or will shortly be an antique. Now 'antique' and 'antiquated' are closely related etymologically; but 'antiquated' is pejorative. To antiquate

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I do not care so much about the actual implementation of the idea and its limitations. Surely, with two antiquated OSes like z/OS and Unix (form the nineteen sixties and seventies) there are limitations which both OS publishers dare or dare not (as it may be) correct. The issue is the concept,

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Ze'ev, It's really not true mainframe jobs don't pay well..Depends on what you mean by well ...and what you want to do to make your salary ? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' > On Nov 24, 2013, at 10:05 AM, Ze'ev Atlas wrote: > > I do not

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 09:32:57 -0600, John McKown wrote: >The z/OS catalog is indeed a wonderful thing. Of course, one thing that >makes it easier is that a data set name can be a maximum of 44 characters >long, rather than about 255 for UNIX and Windows path+file name. ... > Generally much more t

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

The z/OS catalog is indeed a wonderful thing. Of course, one thing that makes it easier is that a data set name can be a maximum of 44 characters long, rather than about 255 for UNIX and Windows path+file name. Also, the z/OS data set name is basically a "flat" name space, rather than hierarchical

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Ze'ev Atlas Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 09:05:03 To: Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers I do not do too much on z/OS anymore (there aren't too many jobs and they

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I do not do too much on z/OS anymore (there aren't too many jobs and they don't pay that well.) So most time I work on Windows or Linux/Unix of some variety. I am surprised that the most striking difference between z/OS and the other OSes is not that much emphasized! So let me please spell it

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <528397dc.5090...@valley.net>, on 11/13/2013 at 10:16 AM, Gerhard Postpischil said: >On 11/13/2013 8:17 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: >> I quoted the D#VTYPE information in an earlier message: 0103 >> 7FF8. The 7f is DVACLASS. >Uh, no. The class is 01, and the 7F is part of

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 11/13/2013 8:17 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: I quoted the D#VTYPE information in an earlier message: 0103 7FF8. The 7f is DVACLASS. Uh, no. The class is 01, and the 7F is part of the block size. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, Vermont ---

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In , on 11/12/2013 at 06:31 PM, Jim Mulder said: > TRSMAIN was an IBM internal tool which was written before the advent >of PATH= in MVS. When TRSMAIN morphed into >AMATERSE, there was no intention of adding PATH= support. AMATERSE >does a DEVTYPE, and checks DVACLASS (in IHADVA mapping). I

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 12 November 2013 18:31, Jim Mulder wrote: >>It's curious looked at as a whole. The very existence of an AMA527I >>suggests that PATH= is supported; it's an "I" message (nothing wrong), >>and there must be code to discover that PATH= was specified. [...] > TRSMAIN was an IBM internal tool whic

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:31:24 -0500, Jim Mulder wrote: > > TRSMAIN was an IBM internal tool which was written before >the advent of PATH= in MVS. When TRSMAIN morphed into >AMATERSE, there was no intention of adding PATH= support. >AMATERSE does a DEVTYPE, and checks DVACLASS (in IHADVA mapping). >

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

> //UNP EXEC PGM=AMATERSE,PARM=UNPACK [...] > ** AMA572I STARTING TERSE DECODE UNPACK 20:08:51 11/07/2013 > ** AMA527I INPUT - DDNAME : SYSUT1 DSNAME: ...PATH=.SPECIFIED... > ** AMA583E INPUT DEVICE TYPE IS UNSUPPORTED > ** AMA573I TERSE COMPLETE DECODE UNPACK 20:0

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <7581281299781533.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/11/2013 at 08:21 PM, Paul Gilmartin said: >I suspect that it's something DFSMS jams into some control block >(TIOT?) where those utilities expect to find DSNAME when DFSMS >has allocated a PATH instead. The TIOT indicates t

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 18:04:40 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote: > >> //UNP EXEC PGM=AMATERSE,PARM=UNPACK >[...] >> ** AMA572I STARTING TERSE DECODE UNPACK 20:08:51 11/07/2013 >> ** AMA527I INPUT - DDNAME : SYSUT1 DSNAME: ...PATH=.SPECIFIED... >> ** AMA583E INPUT DEVICE TYPE IS UNSU

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 7 November 2013 22:45, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > //UNP EXEC PGM=AMATERSE,PARM=UNPACK [...] > ** AMA572I STARTING TERSE DECODE UNPACK 20:08:51 11/07/2013 > ** AMA527I INPUT - DDNAME : SYSUT1 DSNAME: ...PATH=.SPECIFIED... > ** AMA583E INPUT DEVICE TYPE IS UNSUPPORTED > **

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <1384125174.51271.yahoomail...@web181006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>, on 11/10/2013 at 03:12 PM, Jon Perryman said: >It looks like AMATERSE uses the DEVTYPE macro which is not suitable >for UNIX files. Look again. AMATERSE may not be suitable for Unix files, but DEVTYPE is. Fromz/OS DFSMSdfp A

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I interpreted Gilmartin's explanation that AMATERSE was failing because it did not support LRECL and BLKSIZE from the DD statement. That his workaround was to add a DD before the UNIX file. It turns out that the message from AMATERSE was correct "Unsupported device type". It looks like AMATERSE

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <1383936555.77181.yahoomail...@web181006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>, on 11/08/2013 at 10:49 AM, Jon Perryman said: >I admit I don't re-read JCL and I mostly use existing JCL. But that >doesn't make my statement false. For LRECL, it clearly states "LRECL >applies to data sets with the BPAM, BSAM, E

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <527c5e65.4080...@aim.com>, on 11/07/2013 at 08:45 PM, Paul Gilmartin said: >If so, then the answer is that not all datasets have a dataset name. >UNIX datasets have a file name (no DSN). SYSOUT datasets have >SYSOUT attributes (no DSN). Actually, SYSOUT data sets do have dsnames, but a n

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:36:30 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: > ... UNIX files don't support an RECFM, LRECL or BLKSIZE so specifying them on > the DD results in them being ignored. > Come to think of it, you're right in one instance I know of. Binder ignores any of RECFM, LRECL, BLKSIZE, or FILEDATA sp

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

I suspect that you are correct that the I/O macro's have some sort of DCB support built in rather than changing IEBGENER. IBM specifically states that UNIX files are supported in some way in BSAM, QSAM, BPAM, and VSAM. It also says that certain macro's have restrictions and incompatibilities but

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 8/11/2013 09:51 AM, John Gilmore wrote: About QDAM, I should perhaps have made it clearer that my student was having me on. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA John, You disappointed me. I fully expected that you would assigned the student the task of writing the functional specs, in lin

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 10:49:15 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: >... IBM modified IEBGENER (and other utilities) to support DCB for UNIX files >so yes they do work. > I strongly doubt that although I haven't access to the source code to verify it. Rather, I understand that the support was entirely in the

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

W dniu 2013-11-08 20:02, Staller, Allan pisze: Sorry, but I don't see sysplex as being "tightly coupled." At least that's not the definition I learned 30 years ago. In many ways, sysplex is the z/OS implementation of High Availability. Being a specialized implementation, it could do some ni

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Sorry, but I don't see sysplex as being "tightly coupled." At least that's not the definition I learned 30 years ago. In many ways, sysplex is the z/OS implementation of High Availability. Being a specialized implementation, it could do some nice magic with coupling facilities and so on. It

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

any context, I made a false assumption. Jon Perryman. > > From: Paul Gilmartin >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 8:58 AM >Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers > > >On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:36:30 -0800, Jo

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:36:30 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote: > >As for concatenating an MVS dataset before the UNIX file isn't as ironic as it >seem's. This actually occurs more often than you think. The classic example is >specifying a block size on the first dataset that is larger than it's block >s

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes: > Due to the NIH syndrome, VPAM and VIPAM cannot be imported from TSS. > However, I can provide you with a subroutine for the functionality of > BLDL, FIND and STOW for QSAM, with a single OPEN for multiple members. > You'd have to ref

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 10:58:46 +0100, Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > >( I have this problem sometimes, because management >decides that some of our mainframe based test supporting >C programs should be moved to Linux 64 on Intel). > >For now, the solution is > >#ifdef MAINFRAME > fopen /* this way */ >#els

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

In <7701653492190617.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/07/2013 at 02:04 PM, Paul Gilmartin said: >When I said a couple weeks ago that alternate DDNAMES should be >handled by ATTACH, transparent to the application, someone asked, >"What about programs that scan the TIOT for specifi

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <1383859615.90107.yahoomail...@web181005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>, on 11/07/2013 at 01:26 PM, Jon Perryman said: >I don't see acronyms in different industries a problem. The ones that >get me are within IBM's own website. I can't remember specific's. Configuration Data Set versus Compare Double

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <5850145882131277.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/07/2013 at 12:27 PM, Paul Gilmartin said: >That doesn't make sense. Rather, I anticipate breathlessly the >advent of QPAM. Please! Due to the NIH syndrome, VPAM and VIPAM cannot be imported from TSS. However, I can provide

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

Just an idea: if this was possible on today's Linux and C, too, the migration of mainframe C programs to Linux, which open files using "dd:somename" would be much easier. ( I have this problem sometimes, because management decides that some of our mainframe based test supporting C programs shoul

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

The PASCAL compiler on the RS/6000 (with AIX) allowed the file names to be specified by the use of environment variables. IIRC: if you had environment variables that matched the names in your program statement, that is program anyname (FILE1, FILE2, FILE3); you could specify the final file name

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

Not all datasets are created equal. E.g. DCB and VSAM don't work together. E.g. IEBGENER doesn't support VSAM. I suspect that AMATERSE won't either. So the answer is these dataset types are not supported by AMATERSE which truly is WAD. UNIX or VSAM file support would be a new feature request (no

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On 2013-11-07 19:11, Jon Perryman wrote: > This response feels like we're playing a game of Jeopardy (Alex, I'll take > datasets for $100). Did you actually contact IBM to ask them "what is a > dataset"? > In other words, should I ask them whether the information in "Using Data Sets" is correct?

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

This response feels like we're playing a game of Jeopardy (Alex, I'll take datasets for $100). Did you actually contact IBM to ask them "what is a dataset"? Did it have something to do with specifying a Unix file name in a DSN parameter?  If so, then the answer is that not all datasets have a d

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 16:51:03 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: > >>What's a data set? > >Anything that can be allocated to a ddname. > As I said, I have attempted to invoke that definition (pretty directly from "Using Data Sets") when IBM Tech Support has told me, "But the Ref says that DDNAME

Re: JCL (was: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers)

On 7 Nov 2013 10:38:24 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: >On 7 November 2013 12:41, Richard Pinion wrote: >> And to throw another twist to this thread, some people say the LRECL and >> RECFM should not be coded in the JCL. That way when a change is made to the >> program source, that

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <527b17ad.2060...@valley.net>, on 11/06/2013 at 11:31 PM, Gerhard Postpischil said: >The first interactive terminal I used was an IBM 1050, running at >145 bps 134.5? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers and other mind wanderings....

In <014f01cedb5e$ca0dbdb0$5e293910$@soundsoftware.us>, on 11/06/2013 at 06:12 PM, "Duffy Nightingale, SSPI" said: >That sounds pretty cool. Is the mainframe server code you are >talking about applications or something else? Not to enrage the >assembler bigots on here, after all, I am one but

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <3096893122923586.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/06/2013 at 05:48 PM, Paul Gilmartin said: >I was never acquainted with anything slower than the Teletype 33, Even the lowly 28 ran at 75 baud. I suspect that Rich Greenberg was seeing 60 wpm, not 60 cpm. -- Shmuel (S

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <1383778968.24982.yahoomail...@web141706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, on 11/06/2013 at 03:02 PM, Frank Swarbrick said: >Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS?  No. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see We d

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <20131106211556.79f3c24...@panix5.panix.com>, on 11/06/2013 at 04:15 PM, Rich Greenberg said: >On the "mass" storage of the time (i.e. paper tape), The mass storage of the time was magnetic strips, e.g., C.R.A.M, noodle picker, R.A.C.E. For smaller files there were disks and drums. Eunix

Re: z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <0b8109c8.758a.485e.81bc.10286fa70...@aol.com>, on 11/06/2013 at 12:21 PM, efinnell15 said: >Autodin Predates ARPANET and MILNET. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see We don't care. We don't have to car

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <9722190132556452.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/06/2013 at 12:22 PM, Paul Gilmartin said: >But why didn't they follow the same direction naming library >macros? No standards czar. >And why isn't STIMER named WAIT, Why use the name WAIT for a macro that doesn't wait?

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <292913362407.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/06/2013 at 11:44 AM, Paul Gilmartin said: >Past tense? Is it gone? STTL? No. However, TSO Session Manager is oriented towards improving the productivity of users invoking line mode applications, and these days most TSO work

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <1383756905.52974.yahoomail...@web181001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>, on 11/06/2013 at 08:55 AM, Jon Perryman said: >I mostly used CL/Supersession so I don't know the specifics for >Session Manager. Apples and oranges. The SM in TSO/E manages I/O for a single session. It does not multiplex a termi

Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers

In <7069148599028647.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 11/06/2013 at 12:16 PM, Paul Gilmartin said: >But the (GNU, not POSIX) "less" is a facetious counterderivation from >(POSIX) "more", Water is wet. The point is that the Eunix command names are cryptic, as are other aspects. It'

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