[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Christian Catchpole
Sorry. I miscommunicated. They use a heap of a Java stack obviously in the technology. But I haven't heard Android using the term "Java" much at all from a trademarks point of view. I thought the deal was you could fork OpenJDK but you just couldn't call it "Java". On Aug 15, 4:21 pm, Marcelo F

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Marcelo Fukushima
Technically android uses java/jvm bytecode to generate dex On Aug 14, 2010 8:49 PM, "Christian Catchpole" wrote: Well, they aren't arguing trademark issues. They are arguing patents. Compare the situation to the patent holders of MPEG codecs. They don't want or encourage anyone to implement of

Re: [The Java Posse] Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Derek Munneke
Loved it :) ... and I am even over 20'ish crowd too. Worth watching, and if lady GaGa doesn't offend, neither will this. On 14 Aug 2010 19:26, "lazee" wrote: > New JavaZone video is out. Meet Lady Java: http://jz10.java.no/ladyjava-music-video.html > > -- > You received this message because you

Re: [The Java Posse] Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread Liam Knox
> > They should sue Google at least based on GWT being an overly complex and > undocumented load of rubbish for starters. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsub

[The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread Christian Catchpole
Poor little bugger. http://twitpic.com/2ets4g -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.co

[The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread Michael Neale
no you are are right - it is about VM patents. But I think the leap might be if GWT is presumed to be "java" and it doesn't have the patent protections that are outlined when you use GPL java (or an oracle java) then it could be vulnerable. There are some alleged copyright things as well, but the

[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Christian Catchpole
Well, they aren't arguing trademark issues. They are arguing patents. Compare the situation to the patent holders of MPEG codecs. They don't want or encourage anyone to implement of of their "patents" without license fees. That's not what Sun did. Android only ever said "Java source code". On

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread jitesh dundas
FUnny..But the point is.. Google is trying to sort of use GWT as a kind of JRE or mybe JDK technology..reshaping the package ,tweak it and then promote it in its own brand..oracle would hate this and of course larry can be assured to pounce on this.. i m not surprised by these events - a little co

[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Christian Catchpole
Could you argue that Open Sourcing technology that is protected by patents is a form of entrapment? Sun did this, and Oracle may not have done the same but that's what they purchased. "Your Honour. We attempted to protect our patent by encourage people to download the source, modify it and redist

[The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Christian Catchpole
All I can say is, after Java4Ever, any promo they do is going to suck in comparison. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email

[The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
Oh, my, god. Are you guys seriously whining about this? Good lord, folks. Get a life! JavaZone folks: You absolutely rock. Ignore the whining unbelievers. NB: Of course its a joke, geez. What, you think they're going to burn this video to a DVD and shop it around as business consultancy advice?

[The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
Actually I pointed that out. However, the patents in question, which anyone can read, could, if you stretch them far enough, be used to sue Firefox, Opera, Microsoft, Apple, and again Google (for chrome). GWT is utterly unrelated to this, except that it'll become useless if as a result browsers sta

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Freaking laser beams !

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/14/10 21:48 , Jan Goyvaerts wrote: > According to this article > on Wikipedia the > tokamak wins. So people can stop working on the other projects... > > > I can advise this series to anyone who li

[The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Scott Melton
I couldn't agree more. We just had the primaries here in the States and to hear all the negative campaigning was just sickening. I'll vote for a positive campaigner any day. The sad commentary about negative ads is it is what a lot of people respond to... On Aug 14, 12:51 pm, Casper Bang wrote:

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Freaking laser beams !

2010-08-14 Thread Jan Goyvaerts
According to this article on Wikipedia the tokamak wins. So people can stop working on the other projects... [?] I can advise this series to anyone who likes the genre. I've read it in French. Damn good ! On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 21:23, Carl of the

[The Java Posse] Re: Freaking laser beams !

2010-08-14 Thread Carl of the Posse
The race is on between tokamak magnetic containment and laser inertial fusion! There is also the interesting inertial electrostatic confinement, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor, which isn't getting much funding at the moment. It doesn't matter who wins, in the end we all win. On Aug 13, 12:0

[The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Casper Bang
Heh not to get political but I've seen what Berlusconi get's away with, so I believe you! :) In my part of the world, you are expected to promote yourself rather than bash others, and it is in fact illegal to mention a competing product by name. Cultural differences aside, I think we can all agree

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Kevin Wright
But where's Scala Johansson, eh? That's what I want to know! On 14 August 2010 19:43, Robert Casto wrote: > It's kind of funny but then what is with all the 3.5" disks on her torso? > Geeks all at Macs writing Java code? The only laugh I got was seeing Duke > chasing her. Otherwise it was just

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Robert Casto
It's kind of funny but then what is with all the 3.5" disks on her torso? Geeks all at Macs writing Java code? The only laugh I got was seeing Duke chasing her. Otherwise it was just a copy of a music video more or less. I guess it appeals to the 20-something crowd. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:15 PM

[The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Scott Melton
Wow. My eyes are burning and I think that video made me dyslexic. On a lighter note, I think Duke is gonna git some of that! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Casper Bang > mailto:casper.b...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I personally just wish the Java space would focus more on pro-self > rather than con-others. It reminds me of American political TV- > campaigns where you actua

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread jitesh dundas
I really dont want to see browser related issues again..We have enough issues already.. jd On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Kevin Wright wrote: > and in an interesting twist... HTML5 will become a fee-charging Oracle > licensed technology, while Adobe continues to offer Flash clients for > free

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread Kevin Wright
and in an interesting twist... HTML5 will become a fee-charging Oracle licensed technology, while Adobe continues to offer Flash clients for free... I wonder what effect that would have on the iPhone vs Android situation? On 14 August 2010 19:17, Fabrizio Giudici wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGN

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/14/10 20:02 , Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > Am I dense, or is everyone just misinformed? > > Oracle attacked google on the basis of VM patents. > > How is this even remotely relevant to GWT? > David pointed out that there are some sort of VMs for

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Viktor Klang
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Casper Bang wrote: > I personally just wish the Java space would focus more on pro-self > rather than con-others. It reminds me of American political TV- > campaigns where you actually learn nothing about the candidate, but a > whole lot of irrelevant FUD about th

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/14/10 19:56 , Viktor Klang wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Fabrizio Giudici > > wrote: > > > On 8/14/10 19:17 , Viktor Klang wrote: > >>> IT people becoming upset for lack of style is a bit fun

[The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Casper Bang
I personally just wish the Java space would focus more on pro-self rather than con-others. It reminds me of American political TV- campaigns where you actually learn nothing about the candidate, but a whole lot of irrelevant FUD about the competitor. Yes I get it, Microsoft did some questionable th

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread jitesh dundas
on a higher note..seems like oracle is going to make java a component in its suite of packages soon..i think i mentioned my point a few mnths back on this.. didnt quite expect things to start getting changed so soon..:) larry sure is cost effective...:)..really trims down the costs ..& the compet

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread jitesh dundas
I think Fabrizio is right on this point.. I saw the video..interesting..but does it reflect anything on java as a technical aspect.. A woman with fancy clothes could be distracting...to your work..Isnt it? I prefer simple and formal stuff .. Fashion statements always consider the location ,prof

[The Java Posse] Re: Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
Am I dense, or is everyone just misinformed? Oracle attacked google on the basis of VM patents. How is this even remotely relevant to GWT? On Aug 14, 4:45 pm, David S wrote: > It comes to mind that Oracle could have some of the same problems with > GWT's use of Java that they have with Android.

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Viktor Klang
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Fabrizio Giudici < fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 8/14/10 19:17 , Viktor Klang wrote: > > > >> IT people becoming upset for lack of style is a bit funny > >> considering people in the IT's reputation

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Robert Casto
The argument that Sun couldn't have defended itself probably won't hold water in court. If Google was hurting them financially, they should have gone after them then and gotten the money. Doing nothing is a decision in disguise. You don't get to choose the consequences of your action or inaction. O

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread jitesh dundas
i HAVE NOTICED THAT SUCH THINGS , EXCEPT GETTING THE WORK DONE AS NEEDED, MATTER MUCH..IN MY EXP, WHERE I WORKED, PEOPLE FLOUTED SOME BASIC THINGS LIKE WHAT VICTOR MENTIONED HERE OFTEN, BUT STILL DID WELL..THEN THERE WERE OTHERS... THE 80-20 % PRINCIPLE HOLDS TRUE IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT YOUR STYLE Q

[The Java Posse] Re: Dick's Crystal Ball: Oracle sues Google over Android. Facepalm!

2010-08-14 Thread Nigel Charman
I love the irony in this. With Android, Oak has grown up to meet James Gosling's vision of running on popular smart devices and set-top boxes. And Oak has become Oracle's Android Killer :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To

[The Java Posse] Oracle Java suit -- could Google Web Toolkit be next?

2010-08-14 Thread David S
It comes to mind that Oracle could have some of the same problems with GWT's use of Java that they have with Android. With GWT, Java is compiled to an intermediate format (Javascript vs dex) and that resulting code is run on a non-standard virtual machine (Javascript engine vs Dalvik) on a machine

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/14/10 19:17 , Viktor Klang wrote: > >> IT people becoming upset for lack of style is a bit funny >> considering people in the IT's reputation of being socially >> inept and lack all sense of fashion and personal hygiene. So you think that we shou

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Viktor Klang
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Fabrizio Giudici < fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 8/14/10 18:51 , Casper Bang wrote: > > Them JavaZone video's were less ironic before SCOracle's lawsuit. > > Furthermore, while Larry Ellison is busy

Re: [The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/14/10 18:51 , Casper Bang wrote: > Them JavaZone video's were less ironic before SCOracle's lawsuit. > Furthermore, while Larry Ellison is busy suing in order to raise > money for a bigger yacht, Bill Gates (depicted as cumshot receiver) > is fig

[The Java Posse] Re: Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread Casper Bang
Them JavaZone video's were less ironic before SCOracle's lawsuit. Furthermore, while Larry Ellison is busy suing in order to raise money for a bigger yacht, Bill Gates (depicted as cumshot receiver) is fighting malaria, polio and AIDS in Africa. Fun video but frankly the demonization is getting a l

[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
Well, if it was all about the money, they are suing the wrong company. In the Usian patent law system, the right way to proceed is to sue the crap out of some small companies that can't afford to bankroll a crack legal team and then claim in later lawsuits that you winning from those small frys som

[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
Oh, that's an interesting take. Can google switch out their current harmony code with OpenJDK (more than a days work, surely, but compared to the money at stake a drop in the bucket), and then claim in a lawsuit that whatever infringement oracle is insinuating, while baseless, has stopped to boot?

[The Java Posse] Re: Dick's Crystal Ball: Oracle sues Google over Android. Facepalm!

2010-08-14 Thread Casper Bang
On Aug 13, 9:30 pm, Chris Adamson wrote: > If I recall the details correctly, Jonathan was all "yay Android" > because the details of the SDK didn't come out until a few days > later.  Jonathan's blog is from Nov. 5, 2007, and the SDK was released > the next week, on Nov. 12.  It was only then tha

[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Reinier Zwitserloot
IANAL, but I don't think "the old management didn't have the stones to do this" is an adequate defense against Google's complaint that Oracle is engaged in extortion by waiting so long. I believe the core US laws here focus around the requirement to defend a patent. Change of ownership doesn't void

[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Phil
I'm going to call Occam's Razor on this one. Oracle want licensing fees from Android, pure and simple. Java (™) is very healthy in the EE space, still present on the desktop (although having JavaFX a year or two earlier would have helped no end), and rapidly becoming irrelevant in mobile. Assuming

[The Java Posse] Meet Lady Java

2010-08-14 Thread lazee
New JavaZone video is out. Meet Lady Java: http://jz10.java.no/ladyjava-music-video.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send ema

[The Java Posse] Re: What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Steven Herod
Maybe its just the money. For $50 million in costs, they might earn 100, 200, 500? 1 billion dollars? Who knows.. As far as losing developer good will / PR well... can you quantify that in cash, especially amongst Oracle's customers, I mean Sun spent a lot of time/money winning over developers a

Re: [The Java Posse] What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/14/10 11:16 , Kevin Wright wrote: > This *could* all go really well > > IANAL, but this scenario seems to be cropping up in a few forums. > > Sun were contractually obliged to provide Apache a TCK licence > under terms that are "non-discriminator

Re: [The Java Posse] What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Kevin Wright
This *could* all go really well IANAL, but this scenario seems to be cropping up in a few forums. Sun were contractually obliged to provide Apache a TCK licence under terms that are "non-discriminatory, fair and reasonable" ( http://www.jroller.com/scolebourne/entry/a_question_of_ip) Had Apache b

Re: [The Java Posse] What could Oracle possibly be scheming?

2010-08-14 Thread Fabrizio Giudici
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/14/10 01:01 , Reinier Zwitserloot wrote: > > fee it wanted, then it's extortion and will be thrown out. By not > defending the patent for 5 years and having shown rather clearly > that at least sun's tech staff was well aware of how android works