Diskusi dengan pengetahuan setengah2 bisa membingungkan mereka yg baru belajar.
I wrote a short blog to clear the issue:
http://www.jroller.com/wiradikusuma/entry/spring_doesn_t_do_anemic
--
salam hangat,
Thomas Wiradikusuma
http://wiradikusuma.blogspot.com/2008/11/congratulations-america.html
Good post!
Hehe, bikin gw tetep suka sama Spring :)
2008/11/18 Thomas Wiradikusuma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Diskusi dengan pengetahuan setengah2 bisa membingungkan mereka yg baru
> belajar.
> I wrote a short blog to clear the issue:
> http://www.jroller.com/wiradikusuma/entry/spring_doesn_t_do_an
It still doesn't give any answer how Spring can do it the OO way like
WebBeans. :-) Some samples perhaps?
2008/11/18 Thomas Wiradikusuma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Diskusi dengan pengetahuan setengah2 bisa membingungkan mereka yg baru
> belajar.
> I wrote a short blog to clear the issue:
> http://www
2008/11/18 Joshua Partogi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> It still doesn't give any answer how Spring can do it the OO way like
> WebBeans. :-) Some samples perhaps?
What's the problem with Spring way?
Personally, I find spring + DDD = OO.
To proof it, look at ddd sample project.
URL: http://dddsample.sou
Menggunakan spring tidak akan pernah mencapai level fully OO. Kenapa
tidak akan pernah, sebab akan tetap ada layer dimana kita harus
menempatkan controller, dao bahkan manager.
Buktinya :
Liat contoh dddsample masih ada yg namanya facade. Controller dll.
Controller melakukan validasi dll dll,
Al
Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi disini adalah, spring does not do
anemic. But all spring samples are anemic.
Spring men-drag user membuat anemic object. Webbeans meng-encourage
user membuat DDD.
Membandingkannya gampang kok :)
Kita kan sama2 developer jadi konkrit ngebandingiinnya :
Kalau saya i
lah boz, mank mvc layer uda ditinggalkan, kok cuman buat layer view ama
entity doank di webbeans ?
entity nya itu dikotorin API webbeans nya gak ?
tolong dijelaskan... maklum n00b
Arif Rachim wrote:
>
> Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi disini adalah, spring does not do
> anemic. But all spring sampl
Definisi mengkotori apa ? apakah aplikasi kita tergantung sama jar nya
webbeans gitu ?? jawaban untuk ini Tidak ! :) tapi memang applikasi
kita ada annotation webbeansnya.
Kalau kita buat object webbeans, memang kita menggunakan annotation
dari webbeans, tetapi bukan berarti aplikasi kita tightly
2008/11/18 Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Menggunakan spring tidak akan pernah mencapai level fully OO. Kenapa
> tidak akan pernah, sebab akan tetap ada layer dimana kita harus
> menempatkan controller, dao bahkan manager.
Err. Di OO, validasi juga masih dilakukan sama domain model tersebut.
N
I agree with Arif, the samples in many frameworks (not just spring)
can be teaching you things wrongfully.
I managed to blog about this ;-)
http://www.jroller.com/wiradikusuma/entry/samples_authors_are_responsible_for
2008/11/18 Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi d
2008/11/19 Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi disini adalah, spring does not do
> anemic. But all spring samples are anemic.
>
> Spring men-drag user membuat anemic object. Webbeans meng-encourage
> user membuat DDD.
>
> Membandingkannya gampang kok :)
>
> Kita kan sa
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Edward Yakop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2008/11/18 Joshua Partogi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> It still doesn't give any answer how Spring can do it the OO way like
>> WebBeans. :-) Some samples perhaps?
>
> What's the problem with Spring way?
The problem is it is re
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 06:43, Joshua Partogi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The problem is it is really difficult to apply it. Whereas in WebBeans
> this is very simple. You don't need that thingy called AspectJ. It's
> just out of the box. It's very simple to make each WebBeans to
> correlate to on
2008/11/19 Joshua Partogi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> You wouldn't want to place your EntityManager inside your domain
> model. You would need another layer for doing business logic. But
> fortunately in WebBeans this same layer can be used as a controller.
If that part of business logic belong to the
Saya melihat bahwa yg dimaksud edward dimulai dari pemisahan antara
domain dan service layer yang digunakan sebagai "bootstrap"
sebagaimana umumnya aplikasi spring. Sedangkan, saya mencoba
men-"emphasize" hubungan antara DDD dengan presentation layer yang
seharusnya bisa saling complementary. Makan
Pertanyaannya kenapa tidak ?? :). Bukankah lebih bagus kalau kita
punya domain object seperti user.persist(), atau user.update(), akan
automatically menyimpan state dirinya sendiri ke database ?? from
client point of view ini bener2 bersih. Tidak ada campur tangan
manager, tidak ada campur tangan D
2008/11/19 Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Artinya kita bisa gunakan distanceHomeToOffice as our webbeans
> producer, simpan kedalam context, dan digunakan oleh presentation
> layer. Sebaliknya Object user di inject username dan password dari
> presentation oleh webbeans, sehinga seamlessly kita
Lastly controller. MVC is a valid design pattern.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Regards,
Edward Yakop
dear All,
saya cuma mau menanggapi spring vs webbeans aja.
menurut saya hal ini tidak bisa dibandingkan atau diperdebatkan.
CMIIW, karena saya juga masih belajar.
Spring itu menggunakan MVC
er lainnya.
Best Regards,
Andi Kusnadi,Skom
0813 1883 92 37
programmer .net, java, streamezzo
From: Fitri Yolanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:34:55 AM
Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Just cle
Btw, kalo aplikasi aa gak pake framework apapun. gak pake webbeans.
Designnya disebut apa yaa? design yang kacau bukan?
Gardiary Rukhiat
Newbie
--- On Tue, 11/18/08, Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Just
> And how this can't be achieved by Spring too? I just don't get the argument.
> EntityManager can be injected.. No problemo.
I did not said it can not, i said spring approach will drag you to
create anemic object.
> And for user and password, if I would model it. Password property
> would not be
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 15:45, Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> In regards to Manager, and Services.
>> There's nothing wrong with service.
>> For example, does transfer money from one account to another account
>> belong to domain model?
>> I would think you need to create a FundsTransfer
>>> http://books.google.com.my/books?id=7dlaMs0SECsC&pg=PP4&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=0_1
>>> Repositories, Services, Factory are all valid tools.
>>
>> Why not ?? I see it more elegant if the we have Bank object which has
>> operation to transfer one account to another. Does it part of domain
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 20:10, Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why not fit ? If I have an application need to connect to a bank, this
> bank configurable so I create bank entity and add functionalities to
> transfer one account to another, perfectly make sense
Chances are each bank requir
> Chances are each bank requires different kind of integration. They
> might even have different web services, different type of object need
> to be instantiated, etcs.
> It would be very weird if we start creating MayBank implements Bank,
> Citibank implements Bank and we're forced to implement al
> Err, shouldn't the question be. If a DDD app doesn't use spring will
> be easy to maintain.
> The answe rwould be yes.
Are you saying if DDD app use spring it will be harder to maintain ??
> Lesser code doesn't mean lesser bug. If it's not modeled right at the
> beginning. Adding feature
> woul
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 13:29, Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would put it as this way, I should have entity called Bank, i should
> have another entity to maintain BankCustomerServiceAgreement. So what
> ever logical functionalities with respect to customer and bank service
> agreement
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 13:47, Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Err, shouldn't the question be. If a DDD app doesn't use spring will
>> be easy to maintain.
>> The answe rwould be yes.
>
> Are you saying if DDD app use spring it will be harder to maintain ??
No. I'm saying regardless whet
>
> Why? Because u need to create 5 other classes that u can manage with
> xdoclet?
> And in reality, you only have to deal with 1 class.
Yes, that means if i have to deal with 20 it becomes 100. Not to
forget create ServiceLocator, and those ejb mapping xml. Which
potentially produce more bugs if
disebut apa yaa? design yang kacau bukan?
>
>
> Gardiary Rukhiat
> Newbie <http://gardiary.wordpress.com/>
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/18/08, Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
>
> From: Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia]
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 16:25, Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why not ?? Domain can grow as the requirement always coming in right.
> However I do believe we need to have a scope which will lead us to
> modular. Say we have module core.jar, then we have another module
> bank.jar, bank.jar
2008/11/18 Arif Rachim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Menggunakan spring tidak akan pernah mencapai level fully OO. Kenapa
> tidak akan pernah, sebab akan tetap ada layer dimana kita harus
> menempatkan controller, dao bahkan manager.
>
Layer itu akan selalu ada alasannya adalah "separation of concern".
E
> Masalah muncul karena dalam membangun sebuah aplikasi banyak
> "infastructure code" yang berperan. Misal untuk membuat Entity object
> di Hibernate agar bisa melakukan operasi Data Access sendiri maka
> "infrastructure object" Hibernate Session harus di-inject ke entity
> tersebut. Nah hal ini bu
sama disini juga
pertama rush mau ke mvc dan ada mimpi mau ke JSF, SpringMVC (yang ini
mau sepertinya"), terus ke yang lain
sekarang dikantor kita malah focus to solution rather than framework
coba perhatikan proyek blueoxygen, gak ada teknis lagi sekarang ;)
more solution and management approac
> Masalah muncul karena dalam membangun sebuah aplikasi banyak
> "infastructure code" yang berperan. Misal untuk membuat Entity object
> di Hibernate agar bisa melakukan operasi Data Access sendiri maka
> "infrastructure object" Hibernate Session harus di-inject ke entity
> tersebut. Nah hal ini bu
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