Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Thiago Macieira
On Tuesday 03 February 2015 11:56:53 Martin Sandsmark wrote: > On Sun, Feb 01, 2015 at 10:49:58AM -0200, Thiago Macieira wrote: > > They would have if they still had major problems with the usability of the > > tool. It probably just so happens that all the backers are used to the > > interface, ho

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Tuesday, 3 February 2015 12:37:30 CEST, Martin Sandsmark wrote: So everyone with a KDE account will be able to push to any KDE project, bypassing Gerrit? Yes. -- Trojitá, a fast Qt IMAP e-mail client -- http://trojita.flaska.net/

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 12:40:01PM +0100, Mirko Boehm wrote: > 14 messages in 90 minutes on a topic we are discussing for weeks now. > Please realise that that is why people do not engage on this mailing list. > It is not the choice of tools. Sorry for being late to the discussion, but I haven't

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Mirko Boehm
14 messages in 90 minutes on a topic we are discussing for weeks now. Please realise that that is why people do not engage on this mailing list. It is not the choice of tools. Thanks, Mirko. On 03 Feb 2015, at 12:23, Martin Sandsmark wrote: > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 02:01:22PM +0100,

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:08:49AM +0100, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Gerrit will act as a primary repository host. This will be completely > transparent to the users. Developers who do not want to change their > workflow will witness no user-visible changes. All existing clones will > work, and developer

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 02:01:22PM +0100, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Due to the nature of build jobs which constitute a pretty bursty > load, renting VMs sounds like a cost-effective approach for our > scale. I do not expect that it would make financial sense for us to > procure enough physical HW to cov

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 12:02:40PM +0100, Martin Sandsmark wrote: > Yes, but as I said this doesn't really solve it at all. As I said, for long > discussions it still adds a lot of space and noise into the code, which makes > following the flow of the code extremely hard to do (at least for me > pe

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 11:58:50AM +0100, Jan Kundrát wrote: > As they completely revamped the change screen UI in 2.8, I do not > think that this point is true, either. It doesn't really seem revamped, mostly just fixing all the glitches, not really changes in the basic assumptions about how it s

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Kevin Ottens
Hello, First of all, thank you Boud for the wise words. On Tuesday 03 February 2015 11:17:59 Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > On Mon, 2 Feb 2015, Milian Wolff wrote: > > Sigh, I find it highly sad to read this over and over again. > > Well, this whole discussion makes me extremely sad. What people have

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 11:46:10AM +0100, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Yes, the one we're testing in KDE is reasonably recent. It lives at > https://gerrit.vesnicky.cesnet.cz/ , and it uses the new change > screen by default. Thanks! And now I see that the source/line from the comments is already a link.

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 11:55:58AM +0100, Jan Kundrát wrote: > I believe that this is fixed in the new change UI: We use 2.7, which I assume has the new UI. > - The diff viewer shows comments minimized/collapsed and in a way > which consumes less space. Yes, but as I said this doesn't really sol

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Tuesday, 3 February 2015 11:53:30 CEST, Martin Sandsmark wrote: I think the point was more that what Gerrit has fixed were simple UI glitches, not "radical" improvements that change the existing design to make it easier for less experienced or casual users (or even experienced users, but that'

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Sun, Feb 01, 2015 at 10:49:58AM -0200, Thiago Macieira wrote: > They would have if they still had major problems with the usability of the > tool. It probably just so happens that all the backers are used to the > interface, however bad it might be, and don't feel the need to sponsor such a >

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Tuesday, 3 February 2015 11:48:30 CEST, Martin Sandsmark wrote: As mentioned already, we've been using Gerrit at work for quite a while now, and having the code broken up by comments (sometimes many lines in case of a discussion) makes it extremely hard to actually follow the flow of the code.

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 01:16:05PM +0100, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Your mail suggested that they apparently do not care about improving > their UI, because if they did, they would have solved everything > already. I disagree with that, and provide evidence which supports > the idea that Gerrit upstream

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 06:49:28PM +0100, Eike Hein wrote: > I disagree - having the comment in a floating popup instead > of breaking up source code makes it easier to read the code > for me. I just want to back up this point. As mentioned already, we've been using Gerrit at work for quite a whi

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Tuesday, 3 February 2015 11:36:37 CEST, Martin Sandsmark wrote: On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:44:22PM -0200, Thiago Macieira wrote: Many of your complaints about usability (threading, replies, etc.) are solved or at least partially addressed in the new Gerrit UI, which versions like 2.7 have.

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Martin Sandsmark
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:44:22PM -0200, Thiago Macieira wrote: > Many of your complaints about usability (threading, replies, etc.) are solved > or at least partially addressed in the new Gerrit UI, which versions like 2.7 > have. It might not be the default on the installation, so check the se

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-03 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On Mon, 2 Feb 2015, Milian Wolff wrote: Sigh, I find it highly sad to read this over and over again. Well, this whole discussion makes me extremely sad. What people have to learn is that _arguments_ only go so far. People can feel they're double-plus extra-super right, and still at one point

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-02 Thread Eike Hein
On 02/02/2015 01:20 PM, Milian Wolff wrote: Sigh, I find it highly sad to read this over and over again. People keep confusing the flaky CI and the high quality barrier in Qt with gerrit itself... Seriously, gerrit the tool is OK, what makes it hard and what is the actual barrier to entry in Qt

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-02 Thread Luca Beltrame
Jan Kundrát wrote: > However, we also have people with little to no experience using Gerrit > just fine. Shall we therefore focus on explaining that contributing > through Gerrit is actually not painful? My two cents here: as an occasional contributor (and one drop in the ocean; take what I say

Re: Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-02 Thread Martin Gräßlin
On Monday 02 February 2015 13:17:21 Milian Wolff wrote: > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:56:41 Martin Graesslin wrote: > > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:37:31 Christoph Feck wrote: > > > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: > > > > [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-02 Thread Milian Wolff
On Saturday 31 January 2015 21:34:40 Eike Hein wrote: > On 01/31/2015 09:25 PM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > > In short, Qt uses gerrit is a bogus argument in favor of gerrit. > > The argument isn't so much that gerrit is working well > for Qt, but more that there's a certain simplicity in > using the

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-02 Thread Milian Wolff
On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:56:41 Martin Graesslin wrote: > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:37:31 Christoph Feck wrote: > > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: > > > [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde > > > in Qt development, which means a sizabl

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-02 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Monday, 2 February 2015 11:22:57 CEST, David Jarvie wrote: I occasionally contributed patches in the past to Qt, but since the current gerrit setup was introduced I've never even contemplated doing so because it looks too much effort to get to grips with. It's far too off-putting for occasiona

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-02 Thread David Jarvie
On Sat, January 31, 2015 8:25 pm, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: > On Sat, 31 Jan 2015, Christoph Feck wrote: > >> On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: >>> [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde >>> in Qt development, which means a sizable number of KDE develop

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-01 Thread Thiago Macieira
On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:56:41 Martin Graesslin wrote: > I have to agree. Whenever I need to do a change for Qt I need to google for > how to do it. Including putting serious thought in how the push command > must look like, how I need to adjust the examples provided and for which > ref/for/

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-01 Thread Thiago Macieira
On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:37:31 Christoph Feck wrote: > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: > > [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde > > in Qt development, which means a sizable number of KDE developers > > need to be familiar with gerrit anyway

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-02-01 Thread Thiago Macieira
On Friday 30 January 2015 10:57:33 Ben Cooksley wrote: > Given that upstream has had multiple attempts now at an improved > interface, I would question whether they would be willing to accept a > user interface which is suitable for our needs. It appears that they > are quite comfortable with an in

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Inge Wallin
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 22:41:36 Jan Kundrát wrote: > On Saturday, 31 January 2015 21:38:23 CEST, Inge Wallin wrote: > > It is one thing if there is one tool that is totally too weak to work for > > experienced people and one tool that is awesome but very > > difficult to learn. > > But that'

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Alexander Neundorf
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 22:52:22 Andreas Pakulat wrote: > Hi, > > just a short note (don't want this to become a complete subthread > distracting from the actual proposal-discussion) > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Alexander Neundorf > > wrote: > > that KDE still couldn't agree even

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Thursday, 29 January 2015 19:31:20 CEST, Eike Hein wrote: Just for the record: I consider you a KDE sysadmin (you're administrating infra used by KDE, after all), so I meant the "kde.org" more general. Thanks. I forgot about this mail, and I realize that I am not sure whether my reply was c

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Thomas Lübking
On Samstag, 31. Januar 2015 22:41:36 CEST, Jan Kundrát wrote: Maybe the newcomers just do not care whether they're learning about Phabricator, Reviewboard or Gerrit. Since it's always better to waste CPU time than to waste my time, we could btw. also provide a bash script that does all the re

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Andreas Pakulat
Hi, just a short note (don't want this to become a complete subthread distracting from the actual proposal-discussion) On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Alexander Neundorf wrote: > > that KDE still couldn't agree even on a set of git workflows to use, the > wiki page still just lists a few propo

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 21:38:23 CEST, Inge Wallin wrote: It is one thing if there is one tool that is totally too weak to work for experienced people and one tool that is awesome but very difficult to learn. But that's not the situation we have here. I think we have one tool that is v

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 22:09:36 CEST, Thomas Lübking wrote: Aside that this is an exhaustive HowTo on git and gerrit*, there're apparently "upload your plain diff" webfrontends. (Though I think the question was brought up and not answered how follow-up patches are handled - eg. whether you

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Thomas Lübking
On Samstag, 31. Januar 2015 21:11:19 CEST, Eike Hein wrote: ReviewBoard already has some screenshot functio- nality and we actually have policy in place to require showing screenshots for review requests that change UI (i.e. this is something gerrit will actually regress us on afaics) I don't

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Thomas Lübking
On Samstag, 31. Januar 2015 20:37:31 CEST, Christoph Feck wrote: On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde in Qt development, which means a sizable number of KDE developers need to be familiar with gerrit anyway [...

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Eike Hein
... in fact, even if you consider Qt and KDE in symbiosis, you could say that KDE is the place you can do things that don't fit the narrower scope of Qt Project, and that calls for tooling that supports things gerrit doesn't support well enough. If gerrit is a constraint, then KDE picking tooling

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Inge Wallin
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: > On 01/31/2015 10:37 AM, Jan Kundrát wrote: > I'd like to summarize my current feelings on both proposals. > > > Here's what I think gerrit's strong points are: > > * There's undeniably synergy and cultural alignment with >middleware

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Alexander Neundorf
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 21:11:19 Eike Hein wrote: > On 01/31/2015 08:57 PM, Alexander Neundorf wrote: > > hmm, looking back at our switch to git, I don't consider our standards for > > documentation of the developer workflow as very high unfortunately. :-/ > > Considering I wrote the majorit

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/31/2015 09:25 PM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: In short, Qt uses gerrit is a bogus argument in favor of gerrit. The argument isn't so much that gerrit is working well for Qt, but more that there's a certain simplicity in using the same tooling across the KDE/Qt stack, and that KDE benefits fr

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Boudewijn Rempt
On Sat, 31 Jan 2015, Christoph Feck wrote: On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde in Qt development, which means a sizable number of KDE developers need to be familiar with gerrit anyway [...] Excuse me, but if

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Gregor Mi
> On 01/31/2015 08:57 PM, Alexander Neundorf wrote: >> hmm, looking back at our switch to git, I don't consider our standards for >> documentation of the developer workflow as very high unfortunately. :-/ > > Considering I wrote the majority of > https://community.kde.org/Sysadmin/GitKdeOrgManual

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Alexander Richardson
2015-01-31 19:37 GMT+00:00 Christoph Feck : > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: >> [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde >> in Qt development, which means a sizable number of KDE developers >> need to be familiar with gerrit anyway [...] > > Excuse

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/31/2015 08:57 PM, Alexander Neundorf wrote: hmm, looking back at our switch to git, I don't consider our standards for documentation of the developer workflow as very high unfortunately. :-/ Considering I wrote the majority of https://community.kde.org/Sysadmin/GitKdeOrgManual I guess

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Alexander Neundorf
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 20:52:44 Eike Hein wrote: > On 01/31/2015 08:37 PM, Christoph Feck wrote: > > Excuse me, but if KDE developers will have to follow equivalent steps > > as described at http://qt-project.org/wiki/Setting-up-Gerrit to > > contribute, then I predict another big loss of de

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Martin Graesslin
On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:37:31 Christoph Feck wrote: > On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: > > [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde > > in Qt development, which means a sizable number of KDE developers > > need to be familiar with gerrit anyway

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/31/2015 08:37 PM, Christoph Feck wrote: Excuse me, but if KDE developers will have to follow equivalent steps as described at http://qt-project.org/wiki/Setting-up-Gerrit to contribute, then I predict another big loss of developers. This information could be pared down considerably and

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Christoph Feck
On Saturday 31 January 2015 20:07:42 Eike Hein wrote: > [...] Qt is using gerrit and we intend to remain a major stakeholde > in Qt development, which means a sizable number of KDE developers > need to be familiar with gerrit anyway [...] Excuse me, but if KDE developers will have to follow equiva

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/31/2015 10:37 AM, Jan Kundrát wrote: About the "we could" vs. "we will" in general, I have to admit I'm slightly confused by that. The proposal is careful to describe what is available today, and to make a clear difference in saying what needs to be done in future. Maybe some part needs c

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 13:08:07 CEST, Inge Wallin wrote: Well, all of the above and more. Hosting, electricity, networking, I'm including all of the above as "HW costs" in my proposal. We (KDE) do not have our own datacenter after all. manual work as the number of physical machines i

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Thursday, 29 January 2015 23:11:29 CEST, Eike Hein wrote: Maybe, but this is actually something I like from the Phabricator proposal: It provides an impression of our relationship with Phabricator upstream, which it says is a good and constructive one. I believe that our relation with the Ge

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 11:14:01 CEST, Ben Cooksley wrote: Fixing a usability glitch and accepting a radical redesign of your interface are completely different. Your mail suggested that they apparently do not care about improving their UI, because if they did, they would have solved ever

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Inge Wallin
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 12:56:56 Jan Kundrát wrote: > On Saturday, 31 January 2015 12:20:15 CEST, Inge Wallin wrote: > > Given how few of our community who have participated so far, I think it > > borders on pure falsehood to claim "clear consensus" on *anything*. I > > would > > put more lik

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 12:20:15 CEST, Inge Wallin wrote: Given how few of our community who have participated so far, I think it borders on pure falsehood to claim "clear consensus" on *anything*. I would put more like "some people want it", and I can certainly see the appeal. Fair enou

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Inge Wallin
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 23:14:01 Ben Cooksley wrote: > About the only point left standing is that it doesn't check individual > subcommits, but we've yet to see whether the KDE project as a whole > sees this as necessary - especially considering that the vast majority > of projects would use

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Inge Wallin
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 10:37:26 Jan Kundrát wrote: > On Thursday, 29 January 2015 21:03:32 CEST, Eike Hein wrote: > > I think it's a real concern, and I'm wary of "we can patch > > it away" because carrying a huge custom patch delta for UI > > mods is what kept us from upgrading Bugzilla for

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Ben Cooksley
On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Jan Kundrát wrote: > On Thursday, 29 January 2015 22:57:33 CEST, Ben Cooksley wrote: >> >> Given that upstream has had multiple attempts now at an improved >> interface, I would question whether they would be willing to accept a >> user interface which is suitable

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Thursday, 29 January 2015 22:57:33 CEST, Ben Cooksley wrote: Given that upstream has had multiple attempts now at an improved interface, I would question whether they would be willing to accept a user interface which is suitable for our needs. It appears that they are quite comfortable with an

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Thursday, 29 January 2015 21:03:32 CEST, Eike Hein wrote: I think it's a real concern, and I'm wary of "we can patch it away" because carrying a huge custom patch delta for UI mods is what kept us from upgrading Bugzilla for multiple years. I think "is it realistic that we can maintain this an

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-31 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Friday, 30 January 2015 03:30:55 CEST, Kevin Kofler wrote: Unfortunately, file level strikes me as a less than helpful default. Can this be changed to line-level merges in our instance? (I think the ideal would be to use git's native merging algorithm(s), but I expect some limitations due to

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-30 Thread Thiago Macieira
On Thursday 29 January 2015 17:22:45 Thomas Lübking wrote: > Maybe it's possible to borrow or upstream the Qt mod? See the repository "qtqa/gerrit" in the Qt infrastructure (Gitorious, Gerrit, etc.). See commits 6f3d74b7bda9d86a16d33ed16a0806b74482d57c, f6ec276bbd6980e4619e85abd3b3d62f7156fbfc,

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-30 Thread Thiago Macieira
On Friday 30 January 2015 10:04:01 Martin Graesslin wrote: > Also I don't think it can be improved, this looks really fundamental in > gerrit. I am not the only one who notices the problem and AFAIU Qt even > patches around the issues. Given that I'm not confident that we can improve > the softw

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-30 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Thursday, 29 January 2015 12:25:57 CEST, Jan Kundrát wrote: Hi Martin, thanks for an excellent idea, sorting headers before actual code changes makes a lot of sense. I have a quick'n'dirty patch at [1]. The patch has been merged upstream and will be released in next version (2.11). I'll al

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-30 Thread Martin Graesslin
On Thursday 29 January 2015 12:25:57 Jan Kundrát wrote: > On Wednesday, 28 January 2015 13:14:14 CEST, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > > Navigation through the code is difficult, you cannot see the > > complete change in one, but have to go through each file. This > > is something I consider as unfortunate

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Kevin Kofler
Hi, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Feedback is very welcome. First of all, I would like to apologize for my overly negative tone in your prior feedback threads. I would also like to point out that I have absolutely no experience with Phabricator (the solution proposed by the competing proposal), and as

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/29/2015 10:34 PM, Thomas Lübking wrote: Given the multiple concerns on the gerrit webfrontend (not only in this kcd thread) I however also assume that it should be not too hard to get a serious improvement upstream. That includes "If we endup w/ a -hypothetical- decision between 'powerful

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Ben Cooksley
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Thomas Lübking wrote: > On Donnerstag, 29. Januar 2015 21:03:32 CET, Eike Hein wrote: > >> I think it's a real concern, and I'm wary of "we can patch >> it away" because carrying a huge custom patch delta for UI >> mods is what kept us from upgrading Bugzilla for

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Thomas Lübking
On Donnerstag, 29. Januar 2015 21:03:32 CET, Eike Hein wrote: I think it's a real concern, and I'm wary of "we can patch it away" because carrying a huge custom patch delta for UI mods is what kept us from upgrading Bugzilla for multiple years. Afaiu Jan's proposal, the default gerrit webui is

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/29/2015 08:54 PM, Luca Beltrame wrote: This is only the perspective of an occasional contributor, so perhaps it doesn't weigh as much. I think it's a real concern, and I'm wary of "we can patch it away" because carrying a huge custom patch delta for UI mods is what kept us from upgradin

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Luca Beltrame
Milian Wolff wrote: > I agree. But is that such a serious blocker that outweights all other > benefits? As I just wrote in the other mail, I think its a problem we, as Perhaps not for frequent contributors, but for occasional ones (speaking for for myself, I send a patch every 3-5 months, at bes

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Felix Rohrbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 29.01.2015 12:25, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Git has a config diff.orderfile option which might solve this > reasonably well. Do you think that the following sorting order is > reasonable for a KDE's default? > > CMake* cmake* src/*.h src/*.cpp *t

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/29/2015 06:51 PM, Jan Kundrát wrote: The VM runs at my workplace. The KDE sysadmins have root access, PostgreSQL backups are automatically pushed to a KDE server twice a day, and Git is replicated to git.kde.org within seconds after each push. Just for the record: I consider you a KDE s

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Thursday, 29 January 2015 18:22:35 CEST, Eike Hein wrote: One thing I'm unclear on: Does the gerrit test instance run on machines administrated by kde.org these days? The VM runs at my workplace. The KDE sysadmins have root access, PostgreSQL backups are automatically pushed to a KDE server

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/29/2015 06:24 PM, Milian Wolff wrote: Much nicer, I think! I disagree - having the comment in a floating popup instead of breaking up source code makes it easier to read the code for me. Personally, I agree that the gerrit UI is terrible to use. It's not just the diff viewer, either. T

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Milian Wolff
On Thursday 29 January 2015 16:27:52 Luca Beltrame wrote: > Jan Kundrát wrote: > > as promised, here is a proposal on how our infrastructure can be improved, > > with emphasis on service integration. There are screenshots inside. > > I'm not sure if this is the right thread for it, but as someone

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Eike Hein
On 01/29/2015 06:16 PM, Milian Wolff wrote: FWIW, this document reads like a fairy tale to me. The fact that so much is already tested and deployed One thing I'm unclear on: Does the gerrit test instance run on machines administrated by kde.org these days? Cheers, Eike

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Milian Wolff
On Tuesday 27 January 2015 11:08:49 Jan Kundrát wrote: > Hi, > as promised, here is a proposal on how our infrastructure can be improved, > with emphasis on service integration. There are screenshots inside. > > Feedback is very welcome. Hello Jan, thank you very much for this exhaustive overvie

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Thomas Lübking
On Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2015 13:14:14 CET, Martin Gräßlin wrote: Ah. Web UI concerns. Yes. Share most of them. Navigation through the code is difficult, you cannot see the complete change in one, but have to go through each file. +1 Ideally one could have show the patch at once (for small on

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Luca Beltrame
Jan Kundrát wrote: > as promised, here is a proposal on how our infrastructure can be improved, > with emphasis on service integration. There are screenshots inside. I'm not sure if this is the right thread for it, but as someone who commits patches very occasionally either through CLI or the we

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-29 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Wednesday, 28 January 2015 13:14:14 CEST, Martin Gräßlin wrote: Navigation through the code is difficult, you cannot see the complete change in one, but have to go through each file. This is something I consider as unfortunate as normally I prefer reading the changes to the header before the

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-28 Thread Alex Merry
On Wednesday 28 January 2015 13:14:14 Martin Gräßlin wrote: > At the moment I must say that I find gerrit's web interface extremely > cumbersome to use. This is something I experienced with both Qt's as well > as KDE's setup. Navigation through the code is difficult, you cannot see > the complete

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-28 Thread Alex Merry
On Wednesday 28 January 2015 12:27:06 Jan Kundrát wrote: > On Wednesday, 28 January 2015 10:08:54 CEST, Ben Cooksley wrote: > > 11) We actually do use some of Jenkins advanced features, and it > > offers quite a lot more than just a visual view of the last failure. > > > > As a quick overview: > >

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-28 Thread Milian Wolff
On Wednesday 28 January 2015 13:14:14 Martin Gräßlin wrote: I agree on what Martin says about some issues with the web interface of Gerrit, esp. in regard to shortcuts. Note though that the Qt gerrit has the ability (via custom code) to show the full patch. > Given that code review is the cor

Re: Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-28 Thread Martin Gräßlin
On Wednesday 28 January 2015 11:52:17 Martin Klapetek wrote: > Hey, > > On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:08 AM, Jan Kundrát wrote: > > Hi, > > as promised, here is a proposal on how our infrastructure can be improved, > > with emphasis on service integration. There are screenshots inside. > > > > Feed

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-28 Thread Jan Kundrát
On Wednesday, 28 January 2015 10:08:54 CEST, Ben Cooksley wrote: 1) Most applications integrate extremely poorly with LDAP. They basically take the details once on first login and don't sync the details again after that (this is what both Chiliproject and Reviewboard do). How does Gerrit perform

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-28 Thread Martin Klapetek
Hey, On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:08 AM, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Hi, > as promised, here is a proposal on how our infrastructure can be improved, > with emphasis on service integration. There are screenshots inside. > > Feedback is very welcome. > Thanks for putting that together. One thing I still

Re: Another proposal for modernization of our infrastructure

2015-01-28 Thread Ben Cooksley
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Jan Kundrát wrote: > Hi, Hi Jan, > as promised, here is a proposal on how our infrastructure can be improved, > with emphasis on service integration. There are screenshots inside. > > Feedback is very welcome. A few comments. 1) Most applications integrate ext