Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-17 Thread Maureen
Just because he studied them in the early 1800s I would think they started before quite a while before then. A question to the curator at the Lace Guild may well help. Or maybe look at Santina Leveys book, Lace, as she was at the V & A in London for many years. Although their lace collectio

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-17 Thread Karen Thompson
Devon, Thank you for correcting this. I am away from my books at the moment. It makes much more sense that he studied the point ground laces in the early 1800s, when there is no question they were made. Another sample of disinformation in some of the old articles. Karen - in sunny and cool Delaware

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-17 Thread devonthein
This topic is covered in Lace Machines and Machine Laces by Pat Earnshaw, p. 66 and p. 67. This claims that John Heathcoat was born in 1783 (not 1732!) and died in 1861. The first warp frame making marketable net, which resembled knitting, was made in 1795 when Heathcoat was 12. He seems to have re

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Karen Thompson
Lorelei, I agree completely. I have never read anywhere that the lace made in Buckingham in 1750 was point ground. What made me pause on this article was that Mr. Heathcoat supposedly learned to make lace from the Buckingham lace makers around 1753 and imitated the point ground on his Loughborough

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Lorelei Halley
evidence of what that lace looked like. Lorelei From: Karen Thompson [mailto:karenhthomp...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:27 PM To: Lorelei Halley Cc: devonth...@gmail.com; Nancy Neff ; Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces - To unsubscribe send email to majord

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Karen Thompson
Thank you for the comments on the point ground. Hopefully there will be more. As Devon and Lorelei say, it makes sense that due to fashion changes in the late 1700s to much simpler and lighter laces and clothes in general, the point ground provided a lighter background for the motifs. At the same t

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Lorelei Halley
I agree with Devon Lorelei -Original Message- From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of devonth...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 4:33 PM To: Nancy Neff ; Karen Thompson ; Arachne Subject: RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces Dear Karen, It

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Lorelei Halley
achne Subject: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the conversation can continue with point ground. So far, I have not been able to find a date (approximate) for the start of

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Bobbi Donnelly
7;real' angles might have been. I would love to see what you come up with though on the point ground issue! Take care and talk to you soon. bobbi -Original Message- From: Karen Thompson Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:55 PM To: Nancy Neff Cc: Arachne Subject: Re: [lace] Lace: Point

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Karen Thompson
The angles of the samples are anywhere from about 33 to 68, sometimes in the same piece! Some of this might be due to distortion of the samples between being made in 1789 and being mounted on acid-free board in the 1970s or 1980s at the Library of Congress. Or the prickings might have been distorte

RE: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread devonthein
Dear Karen, It would not seem that it would be that hard to find out something like this, yet I have been looking in my books for confirmation of my gut feeling about it, and am surprised at how difficult it is to verify. My gut feeling is that it arose in the last two decades of the 18th century w

Re: [lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Nancy Neff
Hi Karen, What are the angles of the grounds in the Ipswich lace samples? Nancy Connecticut, USA On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Karen Thompson wrote: > It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about > Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the convers

[lace] Lace: Point ground laces

2017-02-16 Thread Karen Thompson
It is with great interest that I have followed the conversations about Mechlin, Valenciennes, Binche, etc. and am wondering if the conversation can continue with point ground. So far, I have not been able to find a date (approximate) for the start of point ground laces. The closest I have come is l