Re: Frescobaldi install (was: final score)

2013-03-09 Thread flup2
Mac installation is long, but it doesn't make so much problem now. The .app mentionned was only a test for including the dependencies in the app, not meant to be usable in production. But as soon as the macports installation is done (between 1 and 4 hours depending the computer age), anyone can

Re: Frescobaldi install

2013-03-09 Thread Francisco Vila
2013/3/10 SoundsFromSound : > "In GNU/Linux it is a small nightmare to install" > > Really? Wow...not for me, it must have been a fluke or something. Ubuntu > and Mint all download Frescobaldi from the repo with one click. Sorry you > had problems! Hope it's all fixed for you now! :) I forgot

Re: Frescobaldi install

2013-03-09 Thread SoundsFromSound
"In GNU/Linux it is a small nightmare to install" Really? Wow...not for me, it must have been a fluke or something. Ubuntu and Mint all download Frescobaldi from the repo with one click. Sorry you had problems! Hope it's all fixed for you now! :) - composer | sound designer -- View t

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Paul Morris
On Mar 9, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Jim Long wrote: > I would rather not have convert-ly change any use of \relative with an > explicit reference pitch. That was my thought too. Of course it would be possible, but since there would be no change to the usage of explicit reference pitches, I don't see

Re: Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Evan Driscoll
On 3/9/2013 7:31 PM, Jim Long wrote: > So if somehow I've made two consecutive correct postulates, > wouldn't a user who used the mnemonic: > > "If no reference pitch is given, then the first pitch after > \relative is relative to f" > > ... > > So, addressing those who are put off by a perceive

Re: \relative is not the best way of entering complicated music

2013-03-09 Thread Sarah k Alawami
I actually tried the let's say e='t or how ever the docs were written. I don't have them up at the moment and it failed with unknown rhythm. Iactually meant e5 on the piano. so how would have I fixed this if I had if I remember [relative c'' for middle c if I remember that to and i place an e=

Re: Idle curiousity about ancient Lily-lore

2013-03-09 Thread Keith OHara
Jim Long umpquanet.com> writes: > Just curious, how did the absolute notation system come about? It is very similar to Helmholtz notation, from his book of 1863 "On the Sensations of Tone as a Physiological Basis for the Theory of Music" The difference being that Hermann von Helmholtz used capi

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Jim Long
On Sat, Mar 09, 2013 at 12:49:31PM -0500, Paul Morris wrote: > > As someone mentioned, it might be helpful to explain things in > the docs something like the following: If there is no explicit > reference pitch, the first note defaults to being relative to f Yet another death knell to my earlier

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread Mike Blackstock
re. "If I now would want to make an edition of that work..." According to Mazzone "Two basic features of copyright law are that (1) copyright belongs to the creator of an original work, and (2) copyright protection is limited in duration. Copyright notices appear today, however, on virtually every

Idle curiousity about ancient Lily-lore

2013-03-09 Thread Jim Long
Just curious, how did the absolute notation system come about? My main observations are that it is piano-centric, with { c d e f g a b c' } being an intuitive sequence, while { a b c d e f g a' } is less logical. Mmm, well, maybe that's not piano-centric, that's just music theory, C is the only

Re: Frescobaldi install

2013-03-09 Thread Nick Payne
On 10/03/13 10:16, Francisco Vila wrote: El 04/03/2013 13:18, "Francisco Vila" > escribió: > In GNU/Linux it is a small nightmare to install. In Windows it is a > matter of next-next-next-done. I must say it's not so hard in Ubuntu 12.10, all needed libraries (

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Jim Long
On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 12:22:59PM +0100, Francisco Vila wrote: > > I was currently using \relative f { } anyway, so this would > allow removing the f, leaving the {...} intact, which for me would > imply a smooth transition to the new behavior. I had a feeling my observation wasn't original. Al

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Jim Long
On Sat, Mar 09, 2013 at 11:40:14AM +0100, David Kastrup wrote: > > Well, the new mnemonic would be "first pitch after \relative is > absolute" I'm not sure whether this is profound or profane, so please excuse, but For just the case of \relative WITHOUT a reference pitch: I. Am I correct t

Re: Turn placed between notes

2013-03-09 Thread Keith OHara
David Kastrup gnu.org> writes: > I don't think I get your point. It was that \once\hideNotes works fine. We do not need the complexities of \tweak or the new \single until we start digging into chords. > Keith OHara oco.net> writes: > > > David Kastrup gnu.org> writes: > > > >> Keith OHara

\relative is not the best way of entering complicated music

2013-03-09 Thread Keith OHara
It took me years to realize that \relative was making LilyPond more difficult for me. I very often forget what was the last pitch I typed, especially when working on a few music expressions in parallel, and even when I do remember the burden of deciding if the interval is a fourth or fifth is distr

Re: Turn placed between notes

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Keith OHara writes: > David Kastrup gnu.org> writes: > >> Keith OHara oco.net> writes: >> >> > \new Voice \relative c'' { >> > << f4. {s4 \once\hideNotes f8\turn\noBeam } >> g16-. a-. } >> >> \once\hideNotes makes me a bit queasy here since it will affect all >> notes at the same timestep.

Re: lecker lek-ker in "old" German lyrics

2013-03-09 Thread Alexander Kobel
On 03/09/2013 06:37 PM, Olivier Biot wrote: On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Alexander Kobel mailto:n...@a-kobel.de>> wrote: On 03/08/2013 10:19 AM, Mats Bengtsson wrote: On 03/08/2013 03:52 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

Re: Turn placed between notes

2013-03-09 Thread Keith OHara
David Kastrup gnu.org> writes: > Keith OHara oco.net> writes: > > > \new Voice \relative c'' { > > << f4. {s4 \once\hideNotes f8\turn\noBeam } >> g16-. a-. } > > \once\hideNotes makes me a bit queasy here since it will affect all > notes at the same timestep. No cause for nausea. The effe

Re: Frescobaldi install (was: final score)

2013-03-09 Thread Tim McNamara
On Mar 9, 2013, at 5:16 PM, Francisco Vila wrote: > > El 04/03/2013 13:18, "Francisco Vila" escribió: > > > In GNU/Linux it is a small nightmare to install. In Windows it is a > > matter of next-next-next-done. > > I must say it's not so hard in Ubuntu 12.10, all needed libraries (esp. > Pytho

Re: lecker lek-ker in "old" German lyrics

2013-03-09 Thread Olivier Biot
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Alexander Kobel wrote: > On 03/08/2013 10:19 AM, Mats Bengtsson wrote: > >> >> On 03/08/2013 03:52 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Some German lyrics from before the times of Neue Deutsche Rechtschreibung >>> feature ck between two sy

Frescobaldi install (was: final score)

2013-03-09 Thread Francisco Vila
El 04/03/2013 13:18, "Francisco Vila" escribió: > In GNU/Linux it is a small nightmare to install. In Windows it is a > matter of next-next-next-done. I must say it's not so hard in Ubuntu 12.10, all needed libraries (esp. Python poppler qt4) are now in packages available in standard repositorie

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread Olivier Biot
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Urs Liska wrote: > May I suggest a concrete example for consideration (because it's a tricky > constellation and I'd appreciate any opinion)? > > Given a musical work that is clearly in the public domain (1820s). > The autograph score is in private possession (in S

Re: Bar lines

2013-03-09 Thread Olivier Biot
This thread is extremely interesting. However, I think we're mixing two things here: 1. Defining semantically disjoint and intuitive bar line types (e.g., final measure ending bar line, start of repeat, end and start of repeat...) 2. Describing how a bar line type should be displayed The former

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Olivier Biot
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 4:35 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Janek Warchoł writes: > > > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Olivier Biot > wrote: > >> Thinking of which, I believe I am struggling with "music entry notation" > >> versus "music storage": writing in relative pitch is often easier for > not

Re: Bar lines

2013-03-09 Thread Paul Morris
On Mar 8, 2013, at 1:21 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote: > To be absolutely clear: i want both an 'end-bar' property and the > thing mentioned above. > To put it differently: i suggest to have an 'end-bar' property and set > its default value to a function which returns "|." for longer music > and "|" fo

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Paul Morris
On Mar 9, 2013, at 4:47 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > So that's the next step: opening the door on \relative { } again, or rather a > different door with the same door handle. Interesting discussion. I like the new/proposed behavior for \relative { ... } (without reference pitch), and would pro

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread Urs Liska
Am 08.03.2013 14:18, schrieb Mike Blackstock: This paper might be of interest to anyone typesetting public domain music from so-called copyrighted scores: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=787244 Abstract: "Copyfraud is everywhere. False copyright notices appear on modern reprin

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Martin Tarenskeen
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013, Paul Scott wrote: On 03/09/2013 06:26 AM, James Harkins wrote: I don't really have a good idea how some kind of voting process would look like where we get relevant feedback from a substantial number of non-specialists. FWIW, speaking as a Lilypond user with some programm

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Paul Scott
On 03/09/2013 06:26 AM, James Harkins wrote: I don't really have a good idea how some kind of voting process would look like where we get relevant feedback from a substantial number of non-specialists. FWIW, speaking as a Lilypond user with some programming experience (but who is not a LP develo

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Janek Warchoł writes: > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Olivier Biot wrote: >> Thinking of which, I believe I am struggling with "music entry notation" >> versus "music storage": writing in relative pitch is often easier for note >> entry, but absolute pitches are IMHO better suited for storing

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Olivier Biot writes: > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 12:20 AM, David Kastrup wrote: [...] > > Personally I think that > > > > c'' \relative { ... } > > > > is more intuitive than > > > > \relative c'' { ... } > > > music functions don't look back into context

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Janek Warchoł
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Olivier Biot wrote: > Thinking of which, I believe I am struggling with "music entry notation" > versus "music storage": writing in relative pitch is often easier for note > entry, but absolute pitches are IMHO better suited for storing music. I may > be trying to d

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Olivier Biot
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 12:20 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Olivier Biot writes: > > > I have mixed feelings regarding the proposed syntax update of > > \relative. > > > > Treating the first pitch of \music in \relative \music differently is > > not intuitive and will likely result in octave errors.

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Trevor Daniels
David Kastrup wrote Saturday, March 09, 2013 10:40 AM > So far, the response has been quite a mixed bag. So here is how I think > we may proceed on this. > > a) stop any further use of the current \relative { ... } > That's issue 3231. > b) Implement new proposed behavior for \relative { ...

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread Urs Liska
Am 09.03.2013 15:25, schrieb David Kastrup: Urs Liska writes: Am 09.03.2013 12:50, schrieb David Kastrup: james writes: On Mar 8, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Tim Slattery wrote: Mike Blackstock wrote: This paper might be of interest to anyone typesetting public domain music from so-called copyr

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
David Kastrup writes: > Also see > http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Bundesgerichtshof_-_Apfel-Madonna> It's probably ironic that this "Apple Madonna" verdict is _totally_ relevant regarding Apple's conduct in the smartphone wars: e) Die Klägerin hat ferner die Ansicht vertreten, daß sie durch die

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Urs Liska writes: > Am 09.03.2013 12:50, schrieb David Kastrup: >> james writes: >> >>> On Mar 8, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Tim Slattery wrote: >>> Mike Blackstock wrote: > This paper might be of interest to anyone typesetting public domain > music from so-called copyrighted scores: >

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Noeck
Am 09.03.2013 07:04, schrieb Matthew Collett: > On 9/03/2013, at 12:22 am, Francisco Vila wrote: > >> 2013/3/8 Jan Nieuwenhuizen : >>> David Kastrup writes: >>> Issue 3229: Patch: Make \relative { ... } interpret the first pitch as an absolute one >>> >>> +1 >> >> +1 , I was currently

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread Urs Liska
Am 09.03.2013 12:50, schrieb David Kastrup: james writes: On Mar 8, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Tim Slattery wrote: Mike Blackstock wrote: This paper might be of interest to anyone typesetting public domain music from so-called copyrighted scores: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread James Harkins
> I don't really have a good idea how some kind of voting process would > look like where we get relevant feedback from a substantial number of > non-specialists. FWIW, speaking as a Lilypond user with some programming experience (but who is not a LP developer) -- I was skeptical of the change at

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread Henning Hraban Ramm
Am 2013-03-09 um 12:50 schrieb David Kastrup: >> It's exactly these things: articulations, editorial annotations, >> expressive marks, that are under frequently copyright. > > Also the actual image. Only in some legislations, e.g. not in Germany, Switzerland and Austria (DACH), but e.g. in th

RE: Turn placed between notes

2013-03-09 Thread Mark Stephen Mrotek
Nick, "Creating a delayed turn" is at http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/snippets/expressive-marks. Mark -Original Message- From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Nick Payne Sent: Fri

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
james writes: > On Mar 8, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Tim Slattery wrote: > >> Mike Blackstock wrote: >> >>> This paper might be of interest to anyone typesetting public domain >>> music from so-called copyrighted scores: >>> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=787244 >> >> Excellent arti

Re: Excellent paper on 'Copyfraud'

2013-03-09 Thread james
On Mar 8, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Tim Slattery wrote: > Mike Blackstock wrote: > >> This paper might be of interest to anyone typesetting public domain >> music from so-called copyrighted scores: >> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=787244 > > Excellent article, even if it is 7 year

Re: Turn placed between notes

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Janek Warchoł writes: > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Nick Payne > wrote: >> See attached graphic. Quite a number of these in the score (Brahms >> Sextet Op >> 18). > > you can use a clever function written by David K. While it results in > different (i'd say a bit worse) spacing, it makes in

Re: Turn placed between notes

2013-03-09 Thread Janek Warchoł
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Nick Payne wrote: > See attached graphic. Quite a number of these in the score (Brahms Sextet Op > 18). you can use a clever function written by David K. While it results in different (i'd say a bit worse) spacing, it makes input code infinitely more readable: at

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Janek Warchoł writes: > this suggestion might take the crown of the most discussed change away > from the treble clef touchup - i'm impressed :) Well, easy if it's an extensive change proposed by a quarrelsome blockhead having nothing to do with his time except working on and talking about LilyP

Re: span bar not working any more?

2013-03-09 Thread Phil Holmes
- Original Message - From: "David Kastrup" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 9:52 AM Subject: Re: span bar not working any more? Kieren MacMillan writes: Hi, Just saw . I think that Phil's schedule will likely get 2

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Federico Bruni writes: > Il 07/03/2013 20:06, David Kastrup ha scritto: >> The idea is that \relative { ... } (namely \relative used without an >> explicit reference pitch) uses the first note inside as the reference >> pitch. > > I like this idea, as it makes the input a bit cleaner. > > For tho

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Janek Warchoł
Hi, this suggestion might take the crown of the most discussed change away from the treble clef touchup - i'm impressed :) Anyway, i see the situation as follows: - most of us consider changing the behaviour of \relative {} (without explicit reference pitch) a good idea, - we (i.e. user community)

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread Federico Bruni
Il 07/03/2013 20:06, David Kastrup ha scritto: The idea is that \relative { ... } (namely \relative used without an explicit reference pitch) uses the first note inside as the reference pitch. I like this idea, as it makes the input a bit cleaner. For those of us who are used to the old way, i

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Olivier Biot writes: > I have mixed feelings regarding the proposed syntax update of > \relative. > > Treating the first pitch of \music in \relative \music differently is > not intuitive and will likely result in octave errors. Treating the first pitch of \music in \relative is _absolutely_ _un

Re: Turn placed between notes

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Keith OHara writes: > Nick Payne internode.on.net> writes: > >> have to fiddle with the value of halign each time to get >> the turn centred between the notes. Is there a more automated way of >> positioning the turn? > > Parallel music. Then I can think in terms of the timing of the turn,

Re: span bar not working any more?

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Kieren MacMillan writes: > Hi, > > Just saw . I think that Phil's schedule will likely get 2.17.14 out this weekend if I remember correctly. Then this embarrassing problem of mine should be gone. We also made one regtest show them: span

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Shane Brandes writes: > It's funny. I think i have used \absolute maybe three times. It is too > much extra typing. We don't even _have_ \absolute... And you'll be hard put to specify the reference pitch for \relative in anything but absolute mode. -- David Kastrup _

Re: Proposed new available and recommended behavior of \relative

2013-03-09 Thread David Kastrup
Keith OHara writes: >> Colin Hall gmail.com> writes: >> >> > In my early days with Lilypond I learned this to my cost. I've >> > never used \relative since then. > > I stopped using \relative about a year ago, because absolute note > entry is vastly easier. Well, then both your feedback, short