Andrew Maben wrote:
On Jan 11, 2007, at 6:47 AM, James Crooke wrote:
We have conducted usability testing on 100's of sites and my argument
is that when you hover over a button and nothing happens, users
sometimes think "oh the button is dead"
So it's not just my personal preference to have a
On Jan 11, 2007, at 6:47 AM, James Crooke wrote:
We have conducted usability testing on 100's of sites and my
argument is that when you hover over a button and nothing happens,
users sometimes think "oh the button is dead"
So it's not just my personal preference to have a cursor change to
On 11 Jan 2007, at 15:36:52, Barney Carroll wrote:
@Nick:
I think it's fair to conclude that we simply disagree!
I agree :-)
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/
***
List Guidelines: http://webstanda
James Crooke wrote:
> P.S For those that are interested: http://www.kare.com - it's an
> interesting site!
Brilliant! I miss Windows 3 so much - it's all downhill from there!
Interesting to see the person behind all this.
Mihael Zadravec wrote:
> I think that the best resolution was: If chan
On 1/11/07, Nick Fitzsimons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Please don't take this personally (it so happens it's one of my
bugbears, and I tend to start ranting when it comes up) but one of
the worst problems on the web is graphic designers who think that
their "vision" or "creativity" or whatever
On 11 Jan 2007, at 14:30:05, Barney Carroll wrote:
Conceive of a persona who is not a read-up fan of Apple's UI
recommendations (my target audience, incidentally). Are they going
to hover their cursor over a button, see it turn into a hand, and
get baffled? I very much doubt it. In fact I t
P.S For those that are interested: http://www.kare.com - it's an
interesting site!
On 1/11/07, James Crooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry, I thought Microsoft were the first to come up with the different
cursor styles. I thought that when Susan Kare (designer of the cursors
http://en.wik
On 1/11/07, Barney Carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't think I'm flippant in thinking that this is standardisation gone
mad - it is at the point where designing no longer requires insight or
creativity, and simply demands mechanical processing according to
ancient presets without analysis
Sorry, I thought Microsoft were the first to come up with the different
cursor styles. I thought that when Susan Kare (designer of the cursors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Kare) spent time at Microsoft doing
graphic design work she came up with the cursor we all know and love to
argue about
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
When using a site which turns the cursor to the link-style cursor when
hovering over a button, I would tend to assume that it wasn't a button
(which causes an action [2]) but a hyperlink (which merely causes
navigation) styled to look like a button. Links and buttons aren
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
When using a site which turns the cursor to the link-style cursor when
hovering over a button, I would tend to assume that it wasn't a button
(which causes an action [2]) but a hyperlink (which merely causes
navigation) styled to look like a button. Links and buttons aren
On 11 Jan 2007, at 12:53:59, James Crooke wrote:
So what does everyone think would suit a clickable button,
(default) arrow
cursor or finger-pointer cursor?
(For now, let's forget the fact that Microsoft invented the
convention of a
default arrow and that we all tend to give in to the defau
So what does everyone think would suit a clickable button, (default) arrow
cursor or finger-pointer cursor?
(For now, let's forget the fact that Microsoft invented the convention of a
default arrow and that we all tend to give in to the default attributes to
prevent breaking conventions.)
So th
Patrick Lauke wrote:
James Crooke
We have conducted usability testing on 100's of sites and my argument
is that when you hover over a button and nothing happens, users
sometimes think "oh the button is dead"
A counter argument to that:
So they'll get confused on every site that uses a butto
Mihael Zadravec wrote:
I think it's good to leave the cursor behavior as it is by browsers
default, when using the visual style for button that is also browsers
default ( if we are talking about input type="button" or "submit"), but
if designer created his own style and it is not so clear that
> James Crooke
> We have conducted usability testing on 100's of sites and my argument
> is that when you hover over a button and nothing happens, users
> sometimes think "oh the button is dead"
A counter argument to that:
So they'll get confused on every site that uses a button. You then change
I think it's good to leave the cursor behavior as it is by browsers default,
when using the visual style for button that is also browsers default ( if we
are talking about input type="button" or "submit"), but if designer created
his own style and it is not so clear that it is a "system button" th
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To answer your query, I would suggest that buttons have a different
action to hyperlinks (most of the time) so your argument that they
should have the same curser does not seem valid to me.
You can't deny their similarity though. Seriously - are there any
elements mor
oes not seem valid to me.
Mike
--
*From:* listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *James Crooke
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:26 PM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Using "cursor:default;" on the whole page but links
Here&#x
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:26 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Using "cursor:default;" on the whole page but
links
Here's one for you.
OK, we are all in agreement that its not a good idea to change
the
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
James Crooke wrote:
Personally I think that all buttons should have pointers, the same as
hyperlinks.
"Personally" being the key here, again. Overriding browser default
behaviour and UI cues is not a sustainable model, just because *you*
think you know better, in mos
James Crooke wrote:
Here's one for you.
OK, we are all in agreement that its not a good idea to change the
default cursor.
But even Krug's "Don't Make Me Think" has a pointer (the finger cursor)
hovering over a button on the front cover of his book - yet in IE and
Firefox buttons have the
James Crooke wrote:
Personally I think that all buttons should have pointers, the same as
hyperlinks.
"Personally" being the key here, again. Overriding browser default
behaviour and UI cues is not a sustainable model, just because *you*
think you know better, in most cases.
Who disagrees
Here's one for you.
OK, we are all in agreement that its not a good idea to change the default
cursor.
But even Krug's "Don't Make Me Think" has a pointer (the finger cursor)
hovering over a button on the front cover of his book - yet in IE and
Firefox buttons have the cursor.
Personally I thin
Patrick H. Lauke skrev:
Quoting Anders Nawroth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
There are people who have problems to spot the cursor when it's the
vertical bar. That would be a reason to use the arrow.
Some people have very specific problems, but will have to learn how to
adapt their user agent, or t
Strange: my Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) turns the cursor into an insertion
bar over text. Did you see this on more than one site?
Stranger still - I was actually looking at an unrefreshed page
(Macintouch) that had been open overnight while the machine slept.
After refreshing the page, cursor beh
On 10 Jan 2007, at 15:09:12, Andrew Maben wrote:
When I read the first couple of messages in this thread, I had a
look at my two browsers - IE6/PC and Safari/Mac.
It was interesting to see that IE displays what I believe is the
correct behavior (the cursor becomes insertion bar over text),
When I read the first couple of messages in this thread, I had a look
at my two browsers - IE6/PC and Safari/Mac.
It was interesting to see that IE displays what I believe is the
correct behavior (the cursor becomes insertion bar over text), while
in Safari it remains an arrow - or does it?
On a personal note, universal custom cursors are my most hated thing in
websites. They irritate me even more than pron pop-ups, and generally
scream out 'features for the sake of features', rarely coming from any
desire to make things easier or more elegant for the user.
...So if I'm your targ
Quoting Mihael Zadravec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
that is rigt. I will stop doing that... But than again... Opera displays
arrow even when cursor is positiond over the text...
So then people who find the default behaviour in other browsers
annoying should consider switching to Opera.
Do you pe
Mihael Zadravec wrote:
that is rigt. I will stop doing that... But than again... Opera
displays arrow even when cursor is positiond over the text...
Do you people think that they should change that because users maybe
don't know if they can grab the text or not?
Might be confusing for a few
Quoting Anders Nawroth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
There are people who have problems to spot the cursor when it's the
vertical bar. That would be a reason to use the arrow.
Some people have very specific problems, but will have to learn how to
adapt their user agent, or themselves, to cope with th
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 03:15:00PM +0100, Anders Nawroth wrote:
> There are people who have problems to spot the cursor when it's the
> vertical bar. That would be a reason to use the arrow.
That would be a reason for those people to change their cursor theme
(to, for example, Windows Inverted (
On 1/10/07, Anders Nawroth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mihael Zadravec skrev:
> that is rigt. I will stop doing that... But than again... Opera displays
> arrow even when cursor is positiond over the text...
There are people who have problems to spot the cursor when it's the
vertical bar. Tha
Mihael Zadravec skrev:
that is rigt. I will stop doing that... But than again... Opera displays
arrow even when cursor is positiond over the text...
There are people who have problems to spot the cursor when it's the
vertical bar. That would be a reason to use the arrow.
/anders
*
that is rigt. I will stop doing that... But than again... Opera displays
arrow even when cursor is positiond over the text...
Do you people think that they should change that because users maybe don't
know if they can grab the text or not?
On 1/10/07, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Quoting Mihael Zadravec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I use it because it's annoying if while moving cursor around the site, it
constantly changes.
So it seems nicer if it does not change, but still able to grab a certain
text...
Annoying to you, perhaps, but vital for other users. It's generally a
b
Quoting Matthew Pennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
What would be the point if it is the default anyway?
It basically forces the normal "arrow" type pointer, so even if you're
over text the cursor doesn't change to the vertical bar type thing.
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
___
Quoting Mihael Zadravec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
If one uses "cursor:default;" as a default property for body {}, on the
whole page (links are "cursor:pointer;")...
Do you find that souch method is not good or it actualy does have any
relevancy?
Leave it up to the browser to decide what the cursor
If it is not set as "default" than over the text cursor looks like this: I
but if set as "defautlt" when you go with it over the text, it stay like:
arrow
On 1/10/07, Matthew Pennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 1/10/07, Mihael Zadravec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If one uses "cursor:defa
On 1/10/07, Mihael Zadravec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If one uses "cursor:default;" as a default property for body {}, on the
whole page (links are "cursor:pointer;")...
Do you find that souch method is not good or it actualy does have any
relevancy?
What would be the point if it is the defa
Hello list!
I have a question for you... :)
If one uses "cursor:default;" as a default property for body {}, on the
whole page (links are "cursor:pointer;")...
Do you find that souch method is not good or it actualy does have any
relevancy?
I use it on a daily basis...Should I change that?
tha
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