On 12/12/2011 22:58, Simon Wistow wrote:
This isn't meant to be a debate on where it's better or cheaper to live
(especially since Leo has asked us to rename this thread) more the fact
that I can imagine that it *is* more expensive to have a US based dev
team.
I blame evil, faceless
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 22:58:29 -, Simon Wistow si...@thegestalt.org
wrote:
My health insurance premiums aren't much more than what I paid in NI
back in the UK - about $100 a month I think.
But in the US you have no cover once you stop paying so you need to factor
in additional money to
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 08:46:57PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
[...]
Of course, if your people are made of pure Awesomium then you might be OK
with taking that performance hit because you're still coming out ahead
despite your people being in Narsarsuaq and Tataouine compared to if you'd
On 09/12/2011 10:04, Aaron Trevena wrote:
recruiters were telling
candidates all sorts of things about why we weren't hiring them and it
was very fraustrating when meeting people who apparently got turned
down when nobody had even seen their CV.
Hmm this explains a lot!
Jacqui
On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:49, Peter Corlett wrote:
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 08:46:57PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
[...]
Of course, if your people are made of pure Awesomium then you might be OK
with taking that performance hit because you're still coming out ahead
despite your people being in
Let's also not forget the positive environmental, (and economic and health),
effects from not having to sit in a car for an hour at both ends of the day.
--
Ciao
Richard Foley
The WNBR Book Project
http://www.naktiv.net/wnbr
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 11:49:11AM +, Peter Corlett wrote:
On
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 11:42:14AM +, Smylers wrote:
This is a followup to my post to the Perl jobs-discuss mailing list.
Terrence picked it up here:
http://livingcosmos.posterous.com/beware-of-net-a-porter-perl-jobs and
the original can be found here:
http://www.mail-archive.com
On 12 Dec 2011, at 15:04, Adrian Howard wrote:
On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:49, Peter Corlett wrote:
[...]
And there's another perspective: I'm prepared to offer a 20-40% discount on
my usual daily rate if I don't have to waste several hours a day dragging my
carcass over to an office in the arse
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 08:49:16AM +0100, Richard Foley said:
UK programmers are half the cost of US programmer? Wow, and I thought all the
IT jobs were moving to India!
Maybe it's time to move back to the UK, where the beer is warm and the girls
are...
That's not implausible.
A good but
On 12 Dec 2011, at 22:16, Simon Wistow wrote:
That's not implausible.
A good but junior programmer in San Francisco is generally looking at a
100K USD salary which equates to about 65K UKP.
Unless things have changed since I left London that would be high for a
junior.
Minus health
On 13/12/2011, at 9:30 AM, James Laver wrote:
On 12 Dec 2011, at 22:16, Simon Wistow wrote:
That's not implausible.
A good but junior programmer in San Francisco is generally looking at a
100K USD salary which equates to about 65K UKP.
Unless things have changed since I left London
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:30:28PM +, James Laver said:
Minus health insurance premiums (and you'd want good cover, wouldn't
you) for a start. And all of the other things you don't get included
over there.
My health insurance premiums aren't much more than what I paid in NI
back in the
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 07:11:58PM +, Paul Makepeace typed:
I'm surprised you think food cheaper is cheaper in UK, unless you're
comparing LIDL with Trader Joe's. Finding somewhere decent to eat
requires some thought in London; requires no thought at all anywhere
I've been in California
On 11 Dec 2011, at 20:46, David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 05:23:40PM +, Adrian Howard wrote:
On 9 Dec 2011, at 13:16, David Cantrell wrote:
This idea that with the right magic pixie dust teleworking can be made
to work regardless of the company, the colleagues, and the
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 09:11:14AM -0500, Avleen Vig typed:
US salaries (use payroll expense) is much higher than in the UK.
Where in London I would pay a programmer or sysadmin about £45k - £55k, in
New York I would pay at least $125k - $150k (about £78k - £93k).
This sounds really great!
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 12:46, Steve Mynott st...@gruntling.com wrote:
Until you realise that it's pretty much a wash.
What does the final line mean?
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/english-idioms-sayings/25582-call-wash.html
Paul
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Steve Mynott st...@gruntling.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 09:11:14AM -0500, Avleen Vig typed:
US salaries (use payroll expense) is much higher than in the UK.
Where in London I would pay a programmer or sysadmin about £45k - £55k,
in
New York I
UK programmers are half the cost of US programmer? Wow, and I thought all the
IT jobs were moving to India!
Maybe it's time to move back to the UK, where the beer is warm and the girls
are...
--
Ciao
Richard Foley
http://www.rfi.net/books.html
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:54:58AM -0500,
On Friday, December 09, 2011 at 02:23:22 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
Indeed. My impression of NaP was also that they're very good. Given that I
know people there and have only heard good things (you know a company is
good when people don't want to leave).
So if you're a) good, and b) lucky and c)
On Friday, December 09, 2011 at 02:10:22 AM, Aaron Trevena wrote:
On 9 December 2011 06:54, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote:
On Thursday, December 08, 2011 at 11:23:35 PM, Kieren Diment wrote:
I suspect this is a symptom of the GFC rather than anything more sinister.
I'm
On 12/09/2011 02:58 AM, Rudolf Lippan wrote:
On Friday, December 09, 2011 at 02:23:22 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
My understanding is that NAP had a very hard time finding people in the
US---I know I passed their posts by before. I had serious concerns after
talking to them, and the recruiter
On Fri, 2011-12-09 at 02:23 -0500, Avleen Vig wrote:
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:10 AM, Aaron Trevena aaron.trev...@gmail.comwrote:
[snip]
At least here in the US, bypassing recruiters is the much preferred method.
I don't know why they're still so heavily relied on in the UK.
The agency does
Hi Raphael,
I am very sorry to hear of your situation.
That said, please could you give NaP a bit more time to get back to you
before this discussion goes any further on a public list.
Many thanks
Leo
(London.pm leader)
On 9 December 2011 08:10, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote:
Your recruitment agent could well be telling porky pies NaP, are a
Perhaps, but she seemed pretty willing to back it up...
Hmm.. When at LOVEFiLM we had lots of recruiters telling fibs - we had
an exclusive partnership with
On 9 Dec 2011, at 07:49, Richard Foley wrote:
UK programmers are half the cost of US programmer? Wow, and I thought all the
IT jobs were moving to India!
Cost of the developers is not the sole cost in building a team in another
country ;-)
Adrian
--
http://quietstars.com
I wouldn't put much faith in anything I didn't hear directly from a
N-a-P employee on this matter.
Hah. After chatting to NAP's HR person at YAPC::EU about a job, and then
sending an email asking, and then a follow-up email checking why I hadn't
heard anything, I gave up trying to do anything
they can clarify situation.
Jason
On 9 December 2011 03:13, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote:
Good morning, Perl Mongers,
This is a followup to my post to the Perl jobs-discuss mailing list.
Terrence picked it up here:
http://livingcosmos.posterous.com/beware-of-net-a-porter
Quoting Raphael Mankin r...@mankin.org.uk:
The agency does the legwork, saving both the company time in going
through lots of CVs, and the contractor in having to trawl through
hundreds of company web sites looking for jobs.
The agency centralises the billing so that the company has to deal
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 10:13:49PM -0500, Rudolf Lippan typed:
About six weeks ago, I was contacted by a recruiter and asked if I was
interested in a team lead position in New Jersey, and so begins my story.
I've no particular reason to defend NAP or doubt your story but publically
On 9 December 2011 10:57, Steve Mynott st...@gruntling.com wrote:
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 10:13:49PM -0500, Rudolf Lippan typed:
I've no particular reason to defend NAP or doubt your story but publically
publishing complaints about recruitment doesn't strike me as professional.
Well, to be
Actually, I'm finding this quite informative.
From what I've seen Net a Porter does quite a bit to maintain good
relationships with the Perl community and I've heard a lot of good
things about them in the past from friends working there.
It sounds like the recruitment agency could be the real
On 9 Dec 2011, at 10:57, Steve Mynott st...@gruntling.com wrote:
I've no particular reason to defend NAP or doubt your story but publically
publishing complaints about recruitment doesn't strike me as professional.
Shit happens. Deal with it. We have all been messed around.
Save the
-of-net-a-porter-perl-jobs and
the original can be found here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/jobs-discuss@perl.org/msg01469.html
Hmmm, I thought one of the features of the job discuss list was that it
isn't archived, but apparently it is.
1) That NET-A-PORTER was fully aware of the contract rate
On 09/12/2011, at 22:25, Ian Knopke ian.kno...@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I'm finding this quite informative.
The whole corporate behaviour thing is pretty interesting. When I do research
on the topic, me and my ethics committee are generally pretty careful about the
who and how we mention
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Steve Mynott st...@gruntling.com wrote:
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 10:13:49PM -0500, Rudolf Lippan typed:
About six weeks ago, I was contacted by a recruiter and asked if I was
interested in a team lead position in New Jersey, and so begins my story.
I've no
On 9 December 2011 11:42, Smylers smyl...@stripey.com wrote:
Rudolf Lippan writes:
[...]
3) That NET-A-PORTER was aware that I let another opportunity go based
on my understanding that my employment was pending a 'final
signature'.
[...]
4) That as a condition of final sign off [...] I
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Steve Mynott st...@gruntling.com wrote:
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 10:13:49PM -0500, Rudolf Lippan typed:
About six weeks ago, I was contacted by a recruiter and asked if I was
interested in a team lead position in New Jersey, and so begins my story.
I've no
Quite right, careless phrasing, I shall re-work it:
Building a team in the apparently UK costs half what it does in the US? Wow,
and I thought all the IT projects were moving to India, (or Ireland...)!
Seriously, if some of these managers could get their heads around leveraging
the power of
On 9 Dec 2011, at 12:51, Jones, Christopher c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
And anyway if NAP don't like this being made public, they should get their
shit together and call the disgruntled parties to explain themselves.
Alternatively, they equally have to accept that Shit happens. Deal with it.
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:57:56PM +0100, Richard Foley wrote:
Seriously, if some of these managers could get their heads around leveraging
the power of telecommuting project teams, they'd not have to worry too much
about the respective costs of having a team in any one country.
This idea
On 9 Dec 2011, at 13:10, James Laver wrote:
On 9 Dec 2011, at 12:51, Jones, Christopher c.jo...@ucl.ac.uk
wrote:
And anyway if NAP don't like this being made public, they should
get their shit together and call the disgruntled parties to explain
themselves. Alternatively, they equally
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote:
On 12/09/2011 02:58 AM, Rudolf Lippan wrote:
On Friday, December 09, 2011 at 02:23:22 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
My understanding is that NAP had a very hard time finding people in the
US---I know I passed their posts
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Richard Foley richard.fo...@rfi.net wrote:
UK programmers are half the cost of US programmer? Wow, and I thought all
the
IT jobs were moving to India!
Maybe it's time to move back to the UK, where the beer is warm and the
girls
are...
The true answer, of
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Richard Foley richard.fo...@rfi.net wrote:
UK programmers are half the cost of US programmer? Wow, and I thought all
the
IT jobs were moving to India!
Maybe it's time to move back to the UK, where the beer is warm and the
girls
are...
The true answer, of
On 09/12/2011 13:10, James Laver wrote:
You've never dealt with a vulturous recruiter, have you?
Is there any other kind of recruiter?
On Dec 9, 2011 8:22 AM, David Cantrell da...@cantrell.org.uk wrote:
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:57:56PM +0100, Richard Foley wrote:
Seriously, if some of these managers could get their heads around
leveraging
the power of telecommuting project teams, they'd not have to worry too
much
about
On 9 December 2011 14:24, Jason Clifford ja...@ukfsn.org wrote:
On 09/12/2011 13:10, James Laver wrote:
You've never dealt with a vulturous recruiter, have you?
Is there any other kind of recruiter?
If had some dealings with a company I consider a good recruiter.
Although in fairness, last
Hi there,
I'm an employee at NET-A-PORTER. I've been asked to forward the
response from our head of recruitment, which I've pasted in full
below.
I've also posted this to the Perl Jobs discussion list.
(I was unable to continue the thread there as I wasn't a member of
that list until earlier
On 12/09/2011 09:08 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:09 AM, Uri Guttmanu...@stemsystems.com wrote:
On 12/09/2011 02:58 AM, Rudolf Lippan wrote:
On Friday, December 09, 2011 at 02:23:22 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
My understanding is that NAP had a very hard time finding
On 12/09/2011 09:32 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
Not entirely true. Telecommuting doesnt erect barriers, it results in
different barriers which need ti be handled differently.
I worked for a distributed company for almost to years. Since then I've
worked from home for almost 18 months. It's not more
On 9 December 2011 15:14, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com wrote:
On 12/09/2011 09:32 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
Not entirely true. Telecommuting doesnt erect barriers, it results in
different barriers which need ti be handled differently.
I worked for a distributed company for almost to years.
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 04:09:00 -0500, Uri Guttman u...@stemsystems.com
wrote:
where did you get that figure? given the standard rate of 20% (and i
know since i recruit) or even less, that would mean a salary of over
250k which is ridiculous but for a handful of perl hackers i know about
On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 10:02:12 +, Leo Lapworth l...@cuckoo.org wrote:
Hi Raphael,
I am very sorry to hear of your situation.
That said, please could you give NaP a bit more time to get back to you
before this discussion goes any further on a public list.
I just saw your email, and I am
On 12/09/2011 10:36 AM, Jason Tang wrote:
On 9 December 2011 15:14, Uri Guttmanu...@stemsystems.com wrote:
On 12/09/2011 09:32 AM, Avleen Vig wrote:
Not entirely true. Telecommuting doesnt erect barriers, it results in
different barriers which need ti be handled differently.
I worked for
On 12/09/2011 10:48 AM, Rudy Lippan wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 04:09:00 -0500, Uri Guttmanu...@stemsystems.com
wrote:
i don't have a deal with NaP so i can't say anything about this
blowup. but i wouldn't ever keep someone from taking the bird in the
hand. it is unprofessional and #^#^@ed
Exactly.
I have been lucky in that I have been able to pick and choose among
positions.
I may have damaged my reputation with some companies by posting, and I may
have harder time finding work now.
-r
On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:46:41 +, Will Crawford
billcrawford1...@gmail.com wrote:
On 9
Hi All,
Do continue discussing general recruiters, processes, remote working
etc, but please start a new thread.
Everyone has had a chance to comment on the specifics of this,
including NaP. I think Rudy and NaP can now take this into a private
discussion, we don't need a he said/she said back
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Rudy Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote:
I just saw your email, and I am fine with that. I await their response.
I've shared NAPs response in this thread and on the Perl Jobs discussion list.
[
I couldn't agree with you more, Uri. When anyone mentions Telecommuting,
hackles seem to rise, it's like the religious wars between vi and emacs, perl
and java, mac + windoze, linux + the rest of the world, etc. I've worked in
many places both onsite and offsite, and both situations have pros
On 9 Dec 2011, at 13:16, David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:57:56PM +0100, Richard Foley wrote:
Seriously, if some of these managers could get their heads around leveraging
the power of telecommuting project teams, they'd not have to worry too much
about the respective costs
On 12/09/2011 12:03 PM, Richard Foley wrote:
I couldn't agree with you more, Uri. When anyone mentions Telecommuting,
hackles seem to rise, it's like the religious wars between vi and emacs, perl
and java, mac + windoze, linux + the rest of the world, etc. I've worked in
many places both
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 14:11, Avleen Vig avl...@gmail.com wrote:
The true answer, of course, depends on your definition of half.
US salaries (use payroll expense) is much higher than in the UK.
Where in London I would pay a programmer or sysadmin about £45k - £55k, in
New York I would pay at
Good morning, Perl Mongers,
This is a followup to my post to the Perl jobs-discuss mailing list. Terrence
picked it up here:
http://livingcosmos.posterous.com/beware-of-net-a-porter-perl-jobs and the
original can be found here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/jobs-discuss@perl.org/msg01469.html
-posting, brevity,
etc.
On 09/12/2011, at 14:13, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote:
Good morning, Perl Mongers,
This is a followup to my post to the Perl jobs-discuss mailing list.
Terrence picked it up here:
http://livingcosmos.posterous.com/beware-of-net-a-porter-perl-jobs
. And we're definitely up front
about things!
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.comwrote:
Good morning, Perl Mongers,
This is a followup to my post to the Perl jobs-discuss mailing list.
Terrence picked it up here:
http://livingcosmos.posterous.com/beware-of-net
On Thursday, December 08, 2011 at 11:23:35 PM, Kieren Diment wrote:
I suspect this is a symptom of the GFC rather than anything more sinister.
I'm sorry you and your not-to-be colleagues appear to be friendly fire in
this circumstance.
I don't know if I buy that:
6 December 2011:
On 9 December 2011 06:54, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote:
On Thursday, December 08, 2011 at 11:23:35 PM, Kieren Diment wrote:
I suspect this is a symptom of the GFC rather than anything more sinister.
I'm sorry you and your not-to-be colleagues appear to be friendly fire in
On 09/12/2011, at 5:54 PM, Rudolf Lippan wrote:
On Thursday, December 08, 2011 at 11:23:35 PM, Kieren Diment wrote:
I suspect this is a symptom of the GFC rather than anything more sinister.
I'm sorry you and your not-to-be colleagues appear to be friendly fire in
this circumstance.
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:10 AM, Aaron Trevena aaron.trev...@gmail.comwrote:
On 9 December 2011 06:54, Rudolf Lippan rlip...@remotelinux.com wrote:
On Thursday, December 08, 2011 at 11:23:35 PM, Kieren Diment wrote:
I suspect this is a symptom of the GFC rather than anything more
sinister.
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