- Original Message -
From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 3:35 PM
Subject: Built-in action?
Hi Herbert:
You wrote: The action depends on where the _tops_ of the frets are,
which is controlled by the person who chooses the fret
Vance wrote,
This is not entirely true. The most significant influence upon the action
of the Lute is the relationship between the nut and the bridge and how
large
the clearance is at the joint between the neck and the belly.
Vance this isn't true either. The only thing the angle of the
Michael,
Sure it does. If the neck angles back it brings the strings closer
to paralleling the neck, assuming that the height of the nut and
bridge stay the same. That in turn means that there is a limit to
how high you can raise the action by raising the nut before the
strings actually angle
Suppose you buy a lute from a good builder. He recommends
certain string sizes and certain fret diameters.
Is it OK to use lighter strings than he recommends?
If so, do you need to adjust the fret sizes?
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Timothy,
I stand by my first statement. First, lets define action which is
the height of the bottom of the strings, form the top of the frets. One
could angle the neck in any direction, north , south, east, and west, up or
down whatever, and still , in all those angles, one could simply
This idea of the neck angle affecting the action is a popular
misconception by many luthiers.
It's not a misconception - on a classical guitar, as you surely know, one
method of construction has the neck in line with the body, but then the
fingerboard is thinner at the higher frets,
In a message dated 6/17/2005 12:33:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It's not a misconception - on a classical guitar, as you surely know, one
method of construction has the neck in line with the body, but then the
fingerboard is thinner at the higher frets, producing the
I've played many baroque guitars where the neck angle definitely affects
the
action, same with classical guitars.
James
I'm saying the most important single aspect, in the set up, is the
height of the strings off the top. This has a profound influence on the
tone of either a lute, or guitar.
I just got finished fixing a problem with the
neck angling back too much, so I've had reason to know what the
effect of neck angle will be
Timothy, sounds like you were reading Lundberg's bad advice about
angling the neck back. It should be angled forward. As you see this doesn't
work
Michael Thames wrote:
One
could angle the neck in any direction, north , south, east, and west, up or
down whatever, and still , in all those angles, one could simply maintain a
constant height of the string over the frets.
This is geometrically impossible, and you must be talking about a
Another, way to look at it, is Humphrey's Millennium guitar, with an
EXTREME neck angle, however the action is pretty good, at least on the ones
set up by Jurlick out in LA.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
This is geometrically impossible, and you must be talking about a
different
angle from the one everyone else is talking about. They're talking about
changing the angle of the neck to the plane of the top. Imagine a
triangle
in which point A is the bridge, point B is any fret, point C is the
One more example would be a cello or violin which has an EXTREME neck angle,
this doesn't effect the action, now does it. It only affects how far of the
top, the strings ride, like I've been saying.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Howard Posner
Michael Thames wrote:
One
could angle the neck in any direction, north , south, east, and west, up or
down whatever, and still , in all those angles, one could simply maintain a
constant height of the string over the frets.
I wrote:
This is geometrically impossible, and you must be talking
Michael Thames wrote:
One more example would be a cello or violin which has an EXTREME neck angle,
this doesn't effect the action, now does it.
Of course it does. That's why the bridges on those instruments have to be
so high: if they weren't the strings would lie on (or slide off the sides
Wayne, you will find use for both a caliper and a micrometer, I have
sorta-cheap nylon calipers for casual use and much more expensive
electronic digital calipers for serious use. Fitted wooden tray-boxes
protect each of them from accidents on the bench. Nothing can protect
them from a trip
Herbert,
Lighter strings will never hurt the instrument. If you try them and like
them, stick with them. As far as the frets, if after tring the lighter strings,
there is then a problem that you think may be cured by the lighter frets, try
them. If there isn't a problem, don't mess.
Craig
Gee Michael,
I don't understand. Surely it is possible to angle the neck back to the
point that the strings actually touch the neck at the neck/body joint unless
you raise the bridge correspondingly. It would also be possible to angle the
neck up (foreward) until the strings were
Michael Thames wrote:
I'm afraid you are wrong!
Howard wrote...
They would be dysfunctional because the ANGLE OF THE NECK MAKES THE ACTION
TOO HIGH, right? Which is to say that you can't change the angle of the
neck to the plane of the top without changing the action
Howard, the fatal
Lutenists tend stay away from lutes with moving neck joints.
I'm afraid you are wrong!
Howard wrote...
They would be dysfunctional because the ANGLE OF THE NECK MAKES THE ACTION
TOO HIGH, right? Which is to say that you can't change the angle of the
neck to the plane of the top
Lutenists tend stay away from lutes with moving neck joints.
The Schelle therobo has a hinge on the neck.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 17,
- Original Message -
From: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: Built-in action?
Well all I can say, is that I've given two different examples of
radically different neck angles, Humphrey, and the opposite of
that angle, a
cello, and
I am not fond of the Humphrey paradigm. (This is my personal taste and
yours may differ without shame.) Every one I've encountered I would
condsider rather brassy toned, a bit harsh.
I agree, don't get me going on what I think of those things. I will
say this, the brassy tone has
Michael Thames wrote:
So I still maintain that perfect action is attainable regardless of the
neck angle.
I figured we had to be talking at cross-purposes. I think what you've been
trying to say is that whatever the neck angle is, it's possible to design an
instrument around that neck angle
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