Re: Historical pitch (was lute notation)

Daniel F Heiman wrote: >The point is that on brass instruments, pitch is in large part determined by the tension of the >lip muscles. >Let's say that we are talking about playing an 'a" above the staff in modern treble clef. This is >at least a moderately high note on either a modern or a Baroqu

Re: Historical pitch (was lute notation)

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:23:00 -0700 Howard Posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Sal Salvaggio wrote: > > > What was the low pitch in Bach's Germany - 392? > The question assumes there was one low pitch in all of Germany, > which is not the case. Here are a couple of web sources on the subject.

Re: Historical pitch (was lute notation)

Sal Salvaggio wrote: > What was the low pitch in Bach's Germany - 392? The question assumes there was one low pitch in all of Germany, which is not the case. Here are a couple of web sources on the subject. I don't vouch for either of them. >From http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ohscatalog/newbaco

Thames/Haskins Manual of Style (was RE: lute notation)

Selections from actual student evaluations (Journal of Higher Education Sept/Oct 1985): It is my understandment that you want our honest opines on these evalue forms. Therefore, I must say that I sincerely hated Nath. Hawthorne's "The Scarlet." I can only scratch on the question, but Hester was

cautionary tale (was RE: Byrd)

A wino gets kicked out of a bar because he did not behave properly. He hangs around the bar for months and months, hoping that someday, someone will apologize to him and invite him to patronize the bar again. He admits that he failed to behave properly, even after he had been warned, but he thinks

Re: Historical pitch (was lute notation)

What was the low pitch in Bach's Germany - 392? SS Salvatore Salvaggio http://www.Salvaggio.50megs.com Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To get on or off this list see

Re: Byrd

Well, two weeks of hell are over. It takes a broad mind, and humble person to admit they made a mistake. I truely wish Auther Ness would have risin to the occasion. but he didn't. Putting us all through this I would have met him half way. On the other hand to all who wrote to me

Apologies & Commendations

In my recent posting about language skills I neglected to commend the large number of contributors from non-English-speaking countries on their exceptional ability to communicate clearly on this list. Certainly anyone can excuse their occasional difficulties on the simple grounds that Engl

Historical pitch (was lute notation)

Dear Tony, Yes, I do. A few days ago I drafted a posting about notation. In the end I didn't send it, because I thought other people had already covered the topic, and the thread had lost its way. However, I'll send it now after all, because it touches on your question. Unsent message: Unfortuna

Byrd

Dear Lutesn2, As far as I know, William Byrd did not compose any music specifically for the lute. He wrote lots of church music and secular music for voices, lots of keyboard music, and songs and instrumental pieces for viols. Some of Byrd's music was intabulated for the lute, notably in solo lut

Lute notation

Dear Tony, I always thought clarinettists had a spare instrument in "a" for such eventualities. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: "Tony Chalkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:05 AM Subject: *** SPAM *** Re: Fwd: lute notation > > > cl

Lost in translation

I knew it was a bad idea. Just keep your fingers away from the keyboard. You don't need to get involved. Remember; beneath the calm, professional exterior of this list lurk all the subtle, interpersonal dynamics of a nursery school at recess. There'll be pork in the treetops before I give in ag

Re: Transliteration

Someone wrote: >So if one hears something on this list that one doesn't like people >start calling each other by different names? > What is this this is out rageuous! Why don't you adopt a kinder >attitude Both you, and Roman, rather than calling people by a >different name which seems

Re: Fwd: Transliteration

Arne wrote: >Could we please conduct the minutes of this list in French, >or Danish, or Finnish, or some other civilised language, >seeing that the English has gone so rotten? > >On behalf of the State of Denmark, pun fully accidental, Well done, Arne. I think that when the wind is in the west yo

Re: Attributions et al

Ime getting tired of tring too reed so menny miss pelings. It seems a number of us here don't take the time to _read_ what they themselves have written. Their doing so might serve the additional purpose of sparing us a flame war over issues we would otherwise enjoy reading about. While t

Re: Fwd: Transliteration

Here here. Scottish Gaelic is fine. How about ancient Bactrian? Or Tocreian There we go... the Ur song sung in ancient Tocreian with verses in Old Welsh! Do, Ceadach - Original Message - From: Tony Chalkley To: Chad McAnally

Re:Bunting, Straloch et all ( was Byrd)

Hi Jon, Hope you enjoyed Somerset this year; alas I couldn't make it. In the fullest sense of the modern term, Bunting made arrangements of the old harp tunes for piano. The Irish clairseach, the traditional wire strung harp was as far away from the piano circa 1840 as the modern oboe is fr

Re: Transliteration

Tony, His real name is Spaminabocks, Alain Tony Chalkley wrote: >>So if one hears something on this list that one doesn't like people >>start calling each other by different names? >> What is this this is out rageuous! Why don't you adopt a kinder >>attitude Both you, and Roman, rathe

Re: Historical pitch (was lute notation)

You are perfectly correct - but thank God I'm not a professional, expected to do all that transposition on sight (sorry, Michael - site-) reading. P.S. Does anyone else who dabbles in different instruments experience the same phenomenon as I do, one example of which is that I can play the gamba fr

Re: Fwd: Transliteration

Thank God some levityYes, another language may work. How about Irish Gaelic? Or Latin? Ar finne an dia! Chad - Original Message - From: Arne Keller To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

Re: Transliteration

So if one hears something on this list that one doesn't like people start calling each other by different names? What is this this is out rageuous! Why don't you adopt a kinder attitude Both you, and Roman, rather than calling people by a different name which seems to amusse both of y

Historical pitch (was lute notation)

Tony Chalkley wrote: > If you happen to be playing with a wind instrument, you've kinda got to go > with its pitch. This I think is what gave rise to "Baroque pitch being > lower", not the note at which strings break. The premise is correct, of course, but the historical conclusion doesn't necess

Re: Fwd: Transliteration

> Michael, how about adopting another list? > Alain In fact, Michael Stitt's old list on Yahoo has been barely active, after Michael's conversion to Islam and moving to the Gulf. I'd say Thames would really grace that horizon, as a fine counterpart to that nutcase. RT > > The meaning is clear, t

Re: Fwd: Transliteration

Michael, how about adopting another list? Alain > The meaning is clear, transcribe is to simply adopt a composition.. >Adoption does NOT imply in it's defanition, nor does it restrict one >from using the same charaters! > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs

Milano de mon triste

Much as I like language... I've got the O'Dette recording of De Mon triste Desplaisir, and I'm trying to find the tab somewhere. The only version I've easily found is from Terzo (1547 No 8), and the similarity fades rapidly after they first two bars. I know it would probably help my eternal soul

Re: Fwd: Transliteration

Could we please conduct the minutes of this list in French, or Danish, or Finnish, or some other civilised language, seeing that the English has gone so rotten? On behalf of the State of Denmark, pun fully accidental, Arne. At 15:24 26-07-2005 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Criag, > Tr

Fwd: Transliteration

Criag, Transliterate= to represent ( letters or words) in the corresponding characters of another alphabet. Transcribe+ First definition which you conveniently left out 1) to write or type a copy. 2) An adoption of a composition. The meaning is clear, transcribe is to simply adopt a com

RE: Byrd

No Nancy, I don't think this is right. My understanding of this particular case is that Hyperion HAD paid Sawkins an agreed fee to prepare the new edition but that he then wanted new performance fees ie fees payable every time a concert was put on using this edition. It was this that led to t

Re: transliteration

John wrote: > >Criag, > I get the defainition of the word translation. Why don't you give us >the definition of "transliteration " and we then can compare the two >meanings, at this point my head is spinning so fast that I hope I can >still understand English. Since I've already done that in

Fwd: lute notation

-Original Message- From: Alain Veylit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:30:32 -0700 Subject: Re: lute notation >Alian wrote,. >Once again, even though I agree that the Poulton edition (as well as the CNRS and others) suffered

Re: transliteration

Criag, I get the defainition of the word translation. Why don't you give us the definition of "transliteration " and we then can compare the two meanings, at this point my head is spinning so fast that I hope I can still understand English. Regards, John Haskins -Original Message-

Re: transliteration

I had promised myself not to get involved in this, but, as the English say, in for a penny, in for a Pound. Once more employing the dictionary I quote: tran·scrip·tion (trn-skrpshn) n. 1. The act or process of transcribing. 2. Something that has been transcribed, especially: a.

RE: Byrd

This is an interesting case, but not completely relevant to the early music we are discussing on this list. From what I have read the case had a lot to do with the money Hyperion made selling the CDs and didn't pay to Dr. Sawkins, who reconstruction the music and made a playable edition. I don't

transliteration

Craig, If a transliteration is what you say it is, and I very much agree with your defanition, how then as Mr. Trovosky states can a transliteration, and a transcription be" essentially" the same thing? As he says they are. I quote him once more. " Wrong, transliteration is rewritting of wo

Fw: Transliteration

> > Roman is actually quite correct here. If I may employ that apparently > hated tool of linguists and scholars, the dictionary; > > > > trans·lit·er·ate (trns-lt-rt, trnz-) > > tr.v. trans·lit·er·at·ed, trans·lit·er·at·ing, trans·lit·er·ates > > > > To represent (letters or words) in the corr

Re: Transliteration

> Roman is actually quite correct here. If I may employ that apparently hated tool of linguists and scholars, the dictionary; > > trans·lit·er·ate (trns-lt-rt, trnz-) > tr.v. trans·lit·er·at·ed, trans·lit·er·at·ing, trans·lit·er·ates > > To represent (letters or words) in the corresponding char

Byrd

If I can perhaps offer my take on what Mr. Thames might have been trying to convey. Is not so much about a poll on the lutenet amongst women, but perhaps, noticing your rather upset, pompous, demeanor, in most of your postings, he might have been concerned about. well how can I say this..

Re: Transliteration

John wrote: > > Jon, > Don't be confused by Mr. Trovosky's spin on the word "transliteration. >Mr. Trovosky said, and I quote > > " Wrong. transliteration is the rewriting of words into a different >Alphabet, essentially the same as a transcription" un quote. > > Trovosky, actually confused hi

Transliteration

Jon, Don't be confused by Mr. Trovosky's spin on the word "transliteration. Mr. Trovosky said, and I quote " Wrong. transliteration is the rewriting of words into a different Alphabet, essentially the same as a transcription" un quote. Trovosky, actually confused himself but didn't know i

Re: Attributions (was Byrd, and notation, and a few other things)

> > Not quite. Soaps are designed in such a way that anyone tuning in > for the > fi>rst time can immediately figure out what exactly is going on. Ours is > >different. > >RT >As Mr. Trovosky, points out it is different, It's called > politics, the spin doctors are hard at work correcting

Fw: Byrd

> > Shall I then refer to you as Roman? If you please... > > > I still don't find your sense of > > humor, amussing,. I would like to AMASS such AMUSING coinages. > > > > and as is ussually the case, you use diversionary > > insults, to avoid the issuses at hand, and apparently, extremelly > >

Fwd: Attributions (was Byrd, and notation, and a few other things)

-Original Message- From: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sal Salvaggio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Lute Net Sent: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:40:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Attributions (was Byrd, and notation, and a few other things) > Not quite. Soaps are designed in such a way that anyone tunin

Re: Attributions (was Byrd, and notation, and a few other things)

> > Michael was clearly offended by Howard's phrase > > "village idiot", and everything continued downhill thereafter. > > He may have been offended, but the phrase wasn't mine. I do not deal in > epithets on the net. I believe Roman apologized to someone for some > offensive remark "this village

Re: Attributions (was Byrd, and notation, and a few other things)

Not quite. Soaps are designed in such a way that anyone tuning in for the first time can immediately figure out what exactly is going on. Ours is different. RT > This debate is turning into a soap opera > > > > Salvatore Salvaggio > http://www.Salvaggio.50megs.com > > > > > _

Re: Attributions (was Byrd, and notation, and a few other things)

This debate is turning into a soap opera Salvatore Salvaggio http://www.Salvaggio.50megs.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see l

Re: Byrd

> I both agree and disagree, which makes me indecisive on the face of it. > Nothing is original, and everything is. I just bought the Bunting book > facsimile (1840) that transcribes, and arranges for piano forte, the harp > music of Ireland - "in order to preserve it". I have some of the same piec

RE: Byrd

Dear Jon, a propos arrangements, you might be interested to look at the recent court case between Hyperion Records (UK) and Dr Sawkins concerning the ownership of musical copyright of a performing edition of Lalande, whose music is out of copyright. The UK Law lords agreed with Dr Sawkins, on appe

Re: Byrd

> > This is a silly thread, words are wonderful but they also can have various > interpretations. To paraphrase The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, "we don't > need no stinkin' dictionaries". > > > > Transcription, a copy from one form to another - or a direct copy to > another medium. From the roots

Re: lute notation

If you happen to be playing with a wind instrument, you've kinda got to go with its pitch. This I think is what gave rise to "Baroque pitch being lower", not the note at which strings break. T - Original Message - From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROT

Re: Byrd

> This is a silly thread, words are wonderful but they also can have various interpretations. To paraphrase The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, "we don't need no stinkin' dictionaries". > > Transcription, a copy from one form to another - or a direct copy to another medium. From the roots "trans", me

Re: Attributions (was Byrd, and notation, and a few other things)

Howard wrote: > >This may be a correct quotation of Haggard (I wouldn't know), but "Never try >to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig" is so well >known that "Never Try to Teach a Pig to Sing" is used as the title of a >recent book published by the Wayne State University Pre

Re: lute notation

Let us put the question of pitch to bed. Pitch, in the sense of Hertz, or vibrations per second, is a relatively modern concept. The size of the instrument dictated pitch (tune just below where the chanterelle breaks). Renaissance lute music isn't pitched to an absolute key in our sense of the keys

Re: Fwd: lute notation

clarinet players are perfectly happy with > having their parts written one full step from actual pitch. erm, not so very happy when they're playing with a guitarist doing a blues in E... T > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >-Original Message- > >From: lutesn2 > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >

Re: Byrd

RT, I both agree and disagree, which makes me indecisive on the face of it. Nothing is original, and everything is. I just bought the Bunting book facsimile (1840) that transcribes, and arranges for piano forte, the harp music of Ireland - "in order to preserve it". I have some of the same pieces

Re: ur song (II)

forgot to include this, taken from the oud site. something to chase down during those long periods of carefree inactivity: http://faculty.washington.edu/snoegel/music.html the smithsonian reconstruction of a sumerian harp is pretty basic - a bow with a rectangular sound box and strings. - bi

Re: ur song

--- Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > if it is known, how does it relate to the earliest > > recorded tuning of a stringed instrument from > ancient china? > > > > it would be wonderful if the lowest course of both > > instruments started at the same pitch. > > Yeah, right. sorry ...

Re: Byrd

Arthur, This is a silly thread, words are wonderful but they also can have various interpretations. To paraphrase The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, "we don't need no stinkin' dictionaries". Transcription, a copy from one form to another - or a direct copy to another medium. From the roots "t

Re: Byrd

Dear Roman; Got it. Thank you. Best Wishes, Gary - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "gary digman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lutelist" Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 2:27

Re: Byrd

Dear Arthur; "Someone like Gary Digman"?? That stung. I wasn't aware that I had commented on anything you said, and you should know that I have great respect for your opinions in this area. I thought I was commenting on the tenor of the discussion and trying to understand why it was so heated