[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

I played with a Bollywood band last November, does that count? See programmes (and Frisch' interesting book on these) by Le Baroque Nomade or Jordi Savall's Xavier album for musically inspired intercultural fusion in early music. Or the Italian baroque sonata's composed by Petrini

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

My favorite east meets west: John McLaughlin and Shakti. Check out Happiness is Being Together. On YouTube. > On Feb 8, 2018, at 6:31 PM, G. C. wrote: > > Kiitos Arto, minä tykkät hyväin kitarristin. Cool album > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:14 AM, Arto Wikla

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Kiitos Arto, minä tykkät hyväin kitarristin. Cool album On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:14 AM, Arto Wikla <[1]wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Dear lutenists Here is my favorite eastern-western music from my youth: THE PAUL BUTTERFIELD BLUES BAND - EAST WEST (1966)

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Dear lutenists Here is my favorite eastern-western music from my youth: THE PAUL BUTTERFIELD BLUES BAND - EAST WEST (1966) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwMqBvBLJio (btw: that is good music even today! :-) ) Perhaps Tristan will find some similiar ragas? best, Arto On 09/02/18 01:57,

[LUTE] Re: the art of the Fusion

Question: Did Miles flunk it? Answer: Well, that should perhaps be kept in the ears of the behearer... Question: But the whole "fusion" setup, musically, wasn't it /isn't it now, so "Dated". Answer: But look at what came out of it, Keith Jarrett f. ex. Question: Was he kinda

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Yep, and Apes don't look like Humans. There is no other relation whatsoever, pure coincidence that they look alike If you had listened as much to the tracks while finding the right spot to make it sound ok without too much manipulation, you would notice more that just modes. But as I said

[LUTE] Re: Sweelinck's Echo Fantasia ex A is a *direct copy* of Raga Asawari

You've convinced me! Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of G. C. Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 2:34 PM To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sweelinck's Echo Fantasia ex A is a *direct copy* of Raga Asawari

[LUTE] Re: the art of the Fusion

My thought exactly: Ravi + Yehudi was cool. Django and Stephane too were cool. Or that Indian guy, George Harrison, playing the sitar on a Beatles song. Even Gogol Bordello is a good mix. All physicists will tell you: fusion is very difficult to do well. Miles Davis flunked it. On

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

I do hear similarities between the two. But I hear similarities among lots of musics â from Steve Reich to "space music" to troubadour songs in similar modes, and do not think it means direct contact or transmission of the sort I think you are asserting. I find the unique musical

[LUTE] Re: Sweelinck's Echo Fantasia ex A is a *direct copy* of Raga Asawari

No need for u*n*s*u*b*s here. That's just being wimpy. Get it together man, this is just a teeny weeny lute list, there should be room for all of us, trolls and heroes alike :) Best G. -- To get on or off this list see list information at

[LUTE] Re: Jacques Gautier, Ludovico Ariosti engravings (portraits)

Jacques' hands remind me of Segovia. G. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Jacques Gautier, Ludovico Ariosti engravings (portraits)

From J Lubrano ( http://www.lubranomusic.com/ ) in the New Acquisitions for February I spotted two engravings of possible interest here. Also check the "Details" link. > #1 Ludovico Ariosto by James Walker (1800) $500 #13 The famous portrait of Jacques Gautier by Jan Lievens

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

> On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Tristan von Neumann > wrote: > > If I presented a book with Ragas in one staff mensural notation from > Sweelinck's attic, your answer would probably be "these are just solmization > exercises"… I’d have questions about its

[LUTE] Re: Sweelinck's Echo Fantasia ex A is a *direct copy* of Raga Asawari

Well thanks for the hint :) ..and I'm leaving the lutelist. This is just a waste of time. My contacts know where I am. --->unsubscribe Am 08.02.2018 um 20:33 schrieb G. C.: Doctor's Orders: The patient is to calm down by listening to some real "east meets west" music, in the form

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

so what do you expect? If I presented a book with Ragas in one staff mensural notation from Sweelinck's attic, your answer would probably be "these are just solmization exercises"... If you don't want to believe, you wouldn't even believe me if Sweelinck told you himself... I have seen this

[LUTE] Re: Sweelinck's Echo Fantasia ex A is a *direct copy* of Raga Asawari

Doctor's Orders: The patient is to calm down by listening to some real "east meets west" music, in the form of Ravi Shankar meets Yehudi Menuhin, to relax fom his overexited state of mind. A cup of bhang lassi before bedtime is also adviced. Best G. On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

Thanks for actually showing it to her! have you played the whole bunch? btw if it were coincidence, it should work on any piece of music. That's just not the case. I tried. Please show her the Dowland mix, and please let her explain how the modulations are possible everytime if this is just

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Excellent find, Jacob. Clearly someone has too much free time on their hands. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters Francisco Goya On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:39 AM, Jacob Johnson <[1]tmrguitar...@gmail.com> wrote: If a mashup counts as

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

I technically posted an example of quodlibet. But what you've done is in fact precisely the same as a mashup, wherein two disparate source pieces are overlaid, often with one source requiring a change of pitch and/or tempo. Mashups don't mean that you've edited the parts, that

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

Tristan; Here is the comment from my sister, BS Voice, New England Conservatory, Ph.D. Musicology Hartford Conservatory: "I have encountered many who overdo connections, like this guy!!" It's not just me. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

Are you all tone-deaf??? Of course the microtones blur a little, but you should as musicians be able to hear past that to the essence! Do you not hear the same GESTURES? In case of Dowland this isn't even disharmonic! I begin to suspect you are envious of my discovery. Your disbelief is

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

You seem to conflate "I have heard, concede many of your points, but am not yet convinced of your conclusion and remain open to other possibilities" with "I have heard, you are wrong, and my disapproval constitutes an attack on your person." The former represents my intent and is what I

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

it's not a mash-up, I *DID NOT EDIT THE TRACKS* I just placed them above each other and pitched the lute to the pitch of the Raga! How do you expect to do editing in 30 mins?? here are the original source tracks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnbbk7_tFDo (this reveals the identity of

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

It sounds remarkably like a lute player trying to play Dowland in a room where a group of Indian musicians is busy playing a raga. In this respect it differs from your John Bull concoctions, which sound like something Charles Ives might have composed had he gone to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi’s

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

I'm sorry, Dr. John. I can't take you seriously any more. I am sorry that I do not have a harpsichordist, pro lutist and Indian Singer plus tabla at my disposal to provide you with ad hoc recordings of musicians actually playing together! I'm not a trained sound engineer! You are a Dr., so

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

If a mashup counts as "evidence", then I humbly submit for the list's consideration the following: [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OYkWSW7u4k; #bigiftrue #staywoke #wakeupsheeple What blows my mind is how incredibly confrontational your tone is in nearly everything you post

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

You gotta be kidding me. Aside from being aurally hideous, it is so ludicrous even Peter Schickele would not present it as a joke. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters Francisco Goya On Feb 8, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Tristan von Neumann

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

I agree perfectly. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Andrico Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:32 AM To: Susan Sandman; Tristan von Neumann Cc: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

You might want to organize a concert, where the musicians play together. Maybe you will then see. It's fun anyway! Am 08.02.2018 um 17:17 schrieb John Mardinly: I listened, but only a little, because I found the sound to be so horrible I just could not stand it. So whatever the

[LUTE] Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

I have decided to post this anyway (this is for you, Gene!) 100% match. No excuse for "coincidence". This is consciously planned to the detail. About choosing the point of alignment: it is always the beginning or the ending, depending what piece is longer. I never cheat. This also

[LUTE] Re: Cherbury lute book

Thanks Ron, Yes, I agree in this matter. We can’t be sure about Burwell’s intentions. In general she seems to contradict herself from time to time. For example once she writes: „Gaultier of England is excellent, for the goodnes of his hands the most swift the neatest and most even that

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

I listened, but only a little, because I found the sound to be so horrible I just could not stand it. So whatever the musicological arguments, it is just not musical, IMHO. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters Francisco Goya On Feb 7, 2018, at

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Excellent suggestion. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Sandman Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 10:32 AM To: Tristan von Neumann Cc: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

I've conceded that i do hear. I will also concede to the possibility of interaction and influence, but not necessarily to "based upon" without greater evidence. I do not believe you to be a con artist and would not want to imply such. (My "joke" reference was regarding your seemingly comical

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Thank you Susan! I am aware of Schenker - I studied musicology back in the day. This would be indeed the best approach, but I guess it is possible to find the exact match when analyzing just what is there. Indian understanding - as it appears to me - basically *is* Schenkerian, so I guess this

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenkerian_analysis Perhaps the theoretical approach of Schenker would be helpful to communicate the similarities you are finding between the Bull Fantasia, Raga Yaman and maybe Castello. Schenker's system is based on the dynamic pull of scale

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Well then, let's make this public then. Yes, you are living in darkness for not wanting to hear the relation! You basically accuse me of being a con artist. This is not ok. I don't even want your money, I am *giving* you my discovery for pure joy of discovery. Let's make this a challenge

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Tristan wrote to me directly without copying the list. Out of respect to whatever his intent may be, I will not forward his personal reply. I will, however, share my own replies to him: "Yeah, I don't mind looking foolish. Given the semi-improvisatorial nature of Indian classical music, any

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Aye. Thank you, gentlemen. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of G. C. Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 5:46 PM To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman I agree with you Arto.

[LUTE] Sweelinck's Echo Fantasia ex A is a *direct copy* of Raga Asawari

Folks, *this is my final offer to you* Whoever does *not* hear that this is the same piece, is amusical, or can't accept the f***ing truth. Seriously guys. The Fantasia starts so that both pieces end simultaneously. Slight tempo fluctuations due to the organ player. Nevertheless, *you WILL

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Oh yes, they have moved out of that beautiful house in the Silberbachstrasse, haven't they ... And I have never yet been able to profit from their online database either. Joachim -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: German song questions Datum: 2018-02-08T11:20:57+0100 Von: "Ralf

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Dear Ralf, dear all sorry – I was unprecise. [1535]15 = [Frankfurt a.M.], [C. Egenolff]. This is neither "Gassenhawerlin" nor "Reutterliedlein" or any other of the Egenolff prints from 1535 which we can call by their titles, but a fragmentary one, lacking the Tenor partbook which would have

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 12:11 CET, "Ralf Mattes" schrieb: > > > song is that young. Of course, if Böhme's apparatus is correct his version > > is from the 18th century. > Argh, typo. Werlin is of course first half of 17th century. Cheers, RalfD

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 12:11 CET, "Ralf Mattes" schrieb: > song is that young. Of course, if Böhme's apparatus is correct his version > is from the 18th century. Argh, typo. Werlin is of course first half of 17th century. Cheers, RalfD To get

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Online "Grimm's Wörterbuch" says: Krabat is an old word for "Croat", and it refers also to wild kids. Am 08.02.2018 um 11:49 schrieb b...@symbol4.de: As it seems in this case they were prowling soldiers who were looking for food. I assume that "good for the Crabates" means that the

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 11:39 CET, Rainer schrieb: > Crabaten should be Kroaten (Croatians) More specific, kroatian mercenaries. But that would be an awfully early apearance. They fought for the emperor during the 30 year war (from ~1620). There

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

As it seems in this case they were prowling soldiers who were looking for food. I assume that "good for the Crabates" means that the food really wasn't very good... Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 um 11:39 Uhr Von: Rainer An: Lutelist

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Crabaten should be Kroaten (Croatians) I have no idea why they should appear here. Rainer On 08.02.2018 11:24, G. C. wrote: Crabaten could perhaps be "kids" On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Robert Barto <[1]r.ba...@gmx.de> wrote: Thank you all. After Rainer's

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

for Crabaten see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroatische_Reiterei Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 um 11:17 Uhr Von: "Robert Barto" An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] German song questions Thank you all. After Rainer's mail I was amazed to

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Crabaten could perhaps be "kids" On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Robert Barto <[1]r.ba...@gmx.de> wrote: Thank you all. After Rainer's mail I was amazed to find Böhme's book on Google books where I could even download a pdf of all 900 pages.

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 10:29 CET, Joachim Lüdtke schrieb: > Dear Robert, dear Rainer, > > original sources can (sometimes) be found by looking into Norbert Böker-Heil > et al. (eds.); "Das Tenorlied". 3 Vols Kassel etc. 1979 - 1986. That would be the

[LUTE] German song questions

Thank you all. After Rainer's mail I was amazed to find Böhme's book on Google books where I could even download a pdf of all 900 pages. The song is listed under "Tanz - und Scherzliedchen". Unsere Köchin kann aus der Masssen kochen wol, Auch das aller beste, was man essen

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 10:43 CET, Rainer schrieb: > > Strange - I find it on page 388. > Jup, same over here (old photocopy I did years ago). BTW, as impressive[1 as Böhme is - take everything from this book with a grain of salt, or better quite a

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 10:39 CET, "b...@symbol4.de" schrieb: >Here >https://books.google.de/books/about/Altdeutsches_Liederbuch.html?id=rgY >JAQAAMAAJ_esc=y > Yes, was just about to mention this as well. Please don't fall prey to Google's data

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Yes, Song number 304, page 388, which is actually page 466 if you download the pdf On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM, [1]b...@symbol4.de <[2]b...@symbol4.de> wrote: Here [3]https://books.google.de/books/about/Altdeutsches_Liederbuch. html?id=rgY

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

On 08.02.2018 10:22, magnus andersson wrote: This book is digitized. "Unser Magd..." can be found on page 265. Altdeutsches Liederbuch: Volkslieder der Deutschen nach Wort und Weise aus dem 12. bis zum 17. Jahrhundert - Books on Google Play Strange - I find it on page 388.

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Here https://books.google.de/books/about/Altdeutsches_Liederbuch.html?id=rgY JAQAAMAAJ_esc=y on page 388 Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 um 10:22 Uhr Von: "magnus andersson" An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, Rainer

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Dear Robert, dear Rainer, original sources can (sometimes) be found by looking into Norbert Böker-Heil et al. (eds.); "Das Tenorlied". 3 Vols Kassel etc. 1979 - 1986. This is a source catalogue of songbooks both manuscript and printed from 1450 to 1580. Vol. 3 contains the indexes. "Vnser magt

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

This book is digitized. "Unser Magd..." can be found on page 265. [1]Altdeutsches Liederbuch: Volkslieder der Deutschen nach Wort und Weise aus dem 12. bis zum 17. Jahrhundert - Books on Google Play [google.png] Altdeutsches Liederbuch: Volkslieder der

[LUTE] Re: German song questions

Dear Robert, I understand that "Unser Magdt kan aussdermassen" is the same tune as "Unsere Köchin...". According to Brown it should be discussed in Böhme: "Altdeutsches Liederbuch : Volkslieder der Deutschen nach Wort und Weise aus dem 12. bis zum 17. Jahrhundert" Best wishes, Rainer aus