If you're used to the G tuning, it's an option. If you're used to the A
tuning, an easier solution that helps with flat keys is to have the
second string in the high octave (if your string length allows for it).
This gives you room to add more harmonies above bass notes in lower
posi
: Theorbo in G
I have no doubt. It would work as a lute in g with reentrant tuning.
2016-03-17 13:14 GMT-03:00 Edward Chrysogonus Yong
<[1]edward.y...@gmail.com>:
Hi Lutefolk!
Just a thought - would a theorbo in G be useful for playing continuo
in flat keys?
Edwar
I have no doubt. It would work as a lute in g with reentrant tuning.
2016-03-17 13:14 GMT-03:00 Edward Chrysogonus Yong
<[1]edward.y...@gmail.com>:
Hi Lutefolk!
Just a thought - would a theorbo in G be useful for playing continuo
in flat keys?
Edward Yong
===
English Theorbo. Single re-entrant 1st String/course down the 8ve.
Thomas Mace, Wilson, etc. in "G". I think also some large French lutes?
Some old article or other in one of the lute publications.
On 3/17/2016 9:14 AM, Edward Chrysogonus Yong wrote:
Hi Lutefolk!
Just a thought - would a theo
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> I now see from your mention of my guitar stringing email that you
> seem to equate 'information' solely with figures whereas I also
> include other things such as tunings, examples of solo music, etc
> which you do not count as information - we'll bear this in mind.
Martyn,
All this is very persuasive, but what about the story of a double re-
entrant instrument with double strings and the second course in
octaves, in G or A?
From my sketchy calculations it appeares it must be an instrument of
about 74 cm (stopped), considering on one side the breaking
Thanks for this; I'd be grateful for a fuller response to cover all the
points in my previous email to you. Nevertheless I'll respond to this one below:
INFORMATION
I now see from your mention of my guitar stringing email that you seem to
equate 'information' solely with figures w
Rob,
The Talbot MS gives the small (lesser) French theorbo string length c 76cm as
tuned in D. If this was at 'French' pitch (whatever this means in the context -
French pitch as recorded in England, French Opera pitch, chamber pitch)
then, if the same pitch levels and string stres
> I have made the point before that we would expect an instrument
> designed to be played at AF6 to have strings about 83% the length
> of an instrument designed to be played at A=390. If so, all other
> things being equal, you'd expect that a 76cm instrument designed for
> AF5 to be tuned the sa
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> In subsequent messages I gave more information (you must have
> missed it): - how such small instruments were strung (just top
> course an octave down or at a much higher nominal pitch eg D), -
> early written evidence of theorbo sizes, - examples of solo music
> fo
Well I for one found that fascinating, Martyn. Thanks. Malcolm Prior has
just told me that - after a discussion with Lynda Sayce - my theorbo (which
he is making at this very moment) has grown to 85cms from 84. It will be
tuned to A=440. As I will be using it primarily for accompaniment, that
suits
Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:50:27 +
(GMT)
From: Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? Plus some guidelines
To: howard posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thanks for this; I now better understand
On Feb 1, 2008, at 12:44 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> Not really what I wrote, but...
No; as I said, I was giving more information than you did.
> Perhaps I made assumptions as to the general level of knowledge.
> In particular I took it as read that nobody believed that A or G
> instruments wi
Lost in cybervoid. So her once more:
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415
to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and
or historical arguments against it. It would work in d too, I'm sure.
David
I understand you, David, very well
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415
to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and
or historical arguments against it. It would work in d too, I'm sure.
David
I understand you, David, very well, I've also got older living for years
On 2008-01-31, at 20:42, Are Vidar Boye Hansen wrote:
A small price to pay for being able to play a three-note chord over
middle C in first position?
That's the point and the most promising bit. However the price
seems to me not small, indeed, and therefore my quest for someone
maybe expe
>> A small price to pay for being able to play a three-note chord over
>> middle C in first position?
>
> That's the point and the most promising bit. However the price seems to me
> not small, indeed, and therefore my quest for someone maybe experienced.
Play an archlute! ;-)
Are
To get on
Dear Howard,
On 2008-01-31, at 18:59, howard posner wrote:
On Jan 31, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote:
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
I'm not sure what the "it" in your question is.
Martyn Hodgson in his recent reply stated quite catego
On Jan 31, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote:
> I'm interested how one manages with the bass notes below the _d_ on
> the 6th course of the instrument tuned in 'd'. This is more or less
> one third of the statistical bass notes in an everage part to play
> (depending of course on period and
On Jan 31, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Jerzy Zak wrote:
> Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
> it's so obvoius?
I'm not sure what the "it" in your question is.
When Ensemble Chanterelle consisted of Sally Sanford, Cathy Liddell
and Kevin Mason, their basic setup was vo
On 2008-01-31, at 18:20, LGS-Europe wrote:
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut,
415 to 466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen
valid and or historical argum
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
I don't. I keep mine (76cm) in a, first two courses down. All gut, 415 to
466 tested. I don't see the point why not. I haven't seen valid and or
historical arguments against it. It would work in d too, I'm s
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to
low 80s) were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and
generally really can't be bothered to continually repeat myself.
Let me see if I can summarize then:
There is no historical information con
Hm..., how many of you are playing continuo on a theorbo in 'd', if
it's so obvoius?
Jurek
___
On 2008-01-31, at 17:25, LGS-Europe wrote:
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to
low 80s) were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and
genera
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to low
80s) were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and generally
really can't be bothered to continually repeat myself. However, in case
you personally missed it, I'll do it one more time:
EITHER nominal A or G tu
Collected wisdom
I, for one, am grateful for the information on theorbo tuning and sizes.
I hope the discussion does not get too prickly to continue - Please, swallow
your rancor.
Joseph Mayes
On 1/31/08 8:36 AM, "Martyn Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've already very clearly
I've already very clearly explained how small theorboes (ie up to low 80s)
were tuned (and even given sources for tablature) and generally really can't be
bothered to continually repeat myself. However, in case you personally missed
it, I'll do it one more time:
EITHER nominal A or
To the benefit of those not interested in a peeing contest but in theories
on theorbo stringing, as I am, and not in the happy possesion of a list of
historical theorbos stating string length and setup, here's what the guys
are talking about (info taken from one of the Pohlmanns lying around her
You can easily work it out yourself from what I've told you
David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: OK, I'm asking, how would you,
specifically, tune the theorbos I just
mentioned?
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
Tieffenbrucker
dt
At 1
OK, I'm asking, how would you, specifically, tune the theorbos I just
mentioned?
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
Tieffenbrucker
dt
At 12:32 AM 1/30/2008, you wrote:
>you replied to it
>
>David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I must hav
I must have missed that post, if you can tell me how the following
instruments were tuned
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
Tieffenbrucker
Then I can do some analysis.
dt
At 05:03 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
>see earlier
>
>David Tayler <[E
Martyn,
Yes, I'm familiar with the previous discussion.
Far from being "modern" in my approach to this
music, it needs to be approached on its own terms.
Abrupt leaps of a major or minor seventh in an
otherwise scalar passage are fine for Stravinsky. In
baroque music they are not -
see earlier
David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How were they tuned?
dt
At 12:42 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
>As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended
>size existed but not tuned as you believe.
>
> MH
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.c
How were they tuned?
dt
At 12:42 AM 1/29/2008, you wrote:
>As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended
>size existed but not tuned as you believe.
>
> MH
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
As very carefully explained earlier, theorbos of your recommended size existed
but not tuned as you believe.
MH
David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thank you all for your comments. As a musicologist, I don't always
agree with my colleagues, but of course I respect their work.
Thank you all for your comments. As a musicologist, I don't always
agree with my colleagues, but of course I respect their work.
The partial list I mentioned in my original post
Snip
Atton, Ecco, Hoess,
Kaiser, Aman, Koch, Langenwalder, Attore, Mascotto, Stehelin, Greiff,
Hoffmann,Tieffenbruck
OK, gang: inquiring minds want to know.
Is there any historical source that correlates the size of a theorbo
with pitch, or tuning, or stringing (single/double courses, single/
double re-entrant)?
On Jan 28, 2008, at 5:44 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> I'm merely pointing out that his advice t
You'll find the earlier (longish) discussion on Pittoni in the archives. By
inventing such a thing as octaves on the second course, you're in danger of
imposing your views on the music to make it fit your pre-conceptions.
MH
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Martyn,
Yes, I know many have
Martyn,
Yes, I know many have used the term "toy"
theorbo. That doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate or
short-sighted.
Much impressive scholarly work has been done by
Lynda and others. Unfortunately, for the question of
stringing and pitch, so much of what we have to go on
is conjec
Even better, interested parties may wish to dip their noses into Lynda's
thesis, which really does the background work for the articles mentioned.
It is by leaps and bounds the only comprehensive scholarship on the subject
to date.
It is available through the British Thesis Service.
My two euroce
You are one to talk. Do you honestly think Straube wore jeans when he
performed???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Eal16Wa3A
DS
On Jan 28, 2008, at 8:33 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> We may
> eventually be able to uncover the truth, but we may
> also never know. The situation is confusing
I'm merely pointing out that his advice to others is based on no evidence.
I, and others, have used the expression 'toy' theorbos many times to describe
such unhistorical instruments. Theorbos do, indeed, come in various sizes but
those of the size he indicates would have only had the
I'm sorry to say it but all that you write on this is mere personal
preference with scant regard for the historical facts. ALL the evidence on
theorboes with first two courses an octave down is for instruments larger than
the biggest you recommend. You mention the Talbot MS but say the lar
Martyn,
--- Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Clearly, with modern overwound strings, 'toy'
> theorboes are possible but that is insufficient
> reason for suggesting them as the first choice
>
> MH
>
Is it really necessary to use such condescending
language? The iconograph
I'll say one thing about the iconography, it is not consistent. They
come in all sizes. I don't see any overwhelming items except they
used double strings alot, we don't.
I'm not saying they didn't have big instruments, they did. Really big
ones. And I've played them, I would never recommend b
Would you kindly tell me the precise evidence you have for suggesting such
small instruments (ie 77-82cm)? The overwhelming historical evidence
(iconography, extant instruments, written descriptions) is that theorboes with
both the first and second course lowered the octave had string lengths in
Durbrow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat 1/26/2008 10:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?
But look at how many pieces are in the key of F for a nominal G
Renaissance lute. I would expect something close to the same
proportions transposed up a tone for a
But look at how many pieces are in the key of F for a nominal G
Renaissance lute. I would expect something close to the same
proportions transposed up a tone for a theorbo in A.
cheers,
On Jan 16, 2008, at 2:07 AM, Rob wrote:
I have a theorbo being made now by Malcolm Prior for delivery by
Paintings & Engravings exist, but the single strung thing is mainly
modern guitar practice.
There is also a hybrid style used quite a bit nowadays that has
guitar style theorbo (heavy single strings, etc) plus semi
historical technique.
Zero is an awfully big number, but it freezes well.
dt
A
This is a very interesting question that has several answers:
practical, modern, professional & historical.
The "griffen" element is subjective, of course.
1. Professional. As a professional, you need several theorbos. For my
work, I require at least four. Therefore, the theorbo in G at 465
do
I very much agree and I deprecate the various lute societies making editions of
Italian music in French tablature when they ought to be encouraging people to
read the latter - it's really not difficult.
MH
Are Vidar Boye Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> As you imply: I guess it's be
What do you call a tablature polyglot? A tablyglot?
G.
- Original Message -
From: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?
As you imply: I guess it's because they can't be
>> As you imply: I guess it's because they can't be bothered to
>> learn to read on an A instrument
>
> A lot of people prefer to work in those areas they're most familiar
> with. We have modern editions of Italian music in French tablature,
> because French tab is the one that a lot of people f
On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:54 PM, Rob wrote:
> so why do people choose to tune to G?
> Is it purely because they already think 'in G', or is there another
> reason?
G tuning (with the second course at lute pitch) seems to have been
common in England. Mace wrote that the theorbo was just a big lut
On Jan 16, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> As you imply: I guess it's because they can't be bothered to
> learn to read on an A instrument
A lot of people prefer to work in those areas they're most familiar
with. We have modern editions of Italian music in French tablature,
bec
On Jan 15, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Rob wrote:
> ...so why do people choose to tune to G?
> Is it purely because they already think 'in G', or is there another
> reason?
That's the reason I would do it. I spent so long playing renaissance
lute that I "think in G." Also the first methods I found fo
Rob,
I play theorbo more than anything (the only instrument which seems to pay and
you do get a lot of variety) - mine is in A at 93cm.
In fact G is a very strong key (possibly with D the strongest) on the A
theorbo - quite a few open strings and the relative keys are also strong.
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