> > http://www.polyhymnion.org/tombeau/tombeaux/tom-frob.mp3
>
>
> Thank you. That's good. Now, do you have something a little more
> lively so we can tell if you have any chops to speak of?
This has a faster section.
http://www.polyhymnion.org/torban/sounds/torban.mp3
RT
_
> > http://www.polyhymnion.org/tombeau/tombeaux/tom-frob.mp3
>
>
> Thank you. That's good. Now, do you have something a little more
> lively so we can tell if you have any chops to speak of?
>
>
> Matanya Ophee
I don't claim any chops to speak of, but I know my fingerboard.
RT
_
At 10:38 AM 8/15/2005, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > This is just the kind of nonsense that should be condemned. Are we
> > >expected to accept apocryphal stories and a pastel
> > > > drawing as proof of some historical truth?.
> > >Mo is pictured with a guitar sometimes, it is
> > This is just the kind of nonsense that should be condemned. Are we
> >expected to accept apocryphal stories and a pastel
> > > drawing as proof of some historical truth?.
> >Mo is pictured with a guitar sometimes, it is cerrtainly no proof that
_he_
> >plays it.
>
> You claim to play the lute,
At 12:51 AM 8/15/2005, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is just the kind of nonsense that should be condemned. Are we
>expected to accept apocryphal stories and a pastel
> > drawing as proof of some historical truth?.
>Mo is pictured with a guitar sometimes, it is cerrtainly no pr
> This is just the kind of nonsense that should be condemned. Are we
expected to accept apocryphal stories and a pastel
> drawing as proof of some historical truth?.
Mo is pictured with a guitar sometimes, it is cerrtainly no proof that _he_
plays it.
RT
To get on or off this list see list infor
- Original Message -
From: Arthur Ness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, August 13, 2005 12:57 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
> That is the painting that Howard mentioned. Pierre Jelyotte (or
> Jeliotte) was a singer at the Paris opera (d.1782). The paintin
At 06:22 AM 8/14/2005, Arthur Ness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is just the kind of nonsense that should be condemned. Are we
>expected to accept apocryphal stories and a pastel drawing as proof
>of some historical truth?.
Probably not. But coming from the mouth of one who is so consistent
artmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 07:47:31 -0700 Arthur Ness wrote:
>No one would quarrel with the fact that the guitar enjoyed considerable
>popularity in Vienna in Beethoven's time. Sch
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 07:47:31 -0700 Arthur Ness wrote:
>No one would quarrel with the fact that the guitar enjoyed considerable
>popularity in Vienna in Beethoven's time. Schubert used the instrument a few
>times, including in a birthday cantata for his father. I know of no
>documentary evidence
hand
touching it.
The violin seems unusually large. Is it a viola? No. Violin.
- Original Message -
From: Howard Posner
Cc: Lute Net
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 1:13 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
Arthur Ness wrote:
> That is the painting that How
In a message dated 8/13/05 10:14:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> No, the one I'm thinking of had Leopold holding a lute-like instrument.
> =A0 But again, it may be a product of my deranged imagination.
>
> H
>
>
>
>
Howard the one with the guitar is Mozart, but there is also one of Hayd
Arthur Ness wrote:
> That is the painting that Howard mentioned. Pierre Jelyotte (or
> Jeliotte) was a singer at the Paris opera (d.1782).
No, the one I'm thinking of had Leopold holding a lute-like instrument.
But again, it may be a product of my deranged imagination.
H
To get on or off
t for guitar
- Original Message -
From: Arthur Ness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:46 am
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
<>
I know of at least one depiction of Mozart in the presence of guitar,
perhaps soon to play along with a guitarist
- Original Message -
From: Arthur Ness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:46 am
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
> It is just that some guitarists wish unnecessarily to
> enhance their instrument by repeating myths that have no basis in
> fact.
Thi
ession for seduction. I
certainly would never consider it a "trifle."
- Original Message -
From: EUGENE BRAIG IV
To: Arthur Ness
Cc: Jon Murphy ; LGS-Europe ; Lute Net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:27 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
-
LEONARD SCHULZ
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Arthur Ness ; Lute Net
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
SCHULZ
Arthur Ness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Erich and Howard,
You are correc
ong, a misreading by the amateur,who attempted to correct
himself, but got the wrong notes when he made the correction. Surely Schultz
had Beethoven inthe ears when he wrote that passage.
- Original Message -
From: Howard Posner
Cc: Lute Net
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 3:46 PM
Subje
ted to correct
himself, but got the wrong notes when he made the correction. Surely Schultz
had Beethoven inthe ears when he wrote that passage.
- Original Message -
From: Howard Posner
Cc: Lute Net
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: Mozart for
> Yes, that's the one! (Sor's version is No. 5 at www.guitarist.com/midis/sor/sor20.htm>)
> EC
Lets keep it out of their paws.
RT
> >> Well, thanks for clearing that one up!
> >> The arpeggio pattern is different in the Sor study (which I now
> >> discover is Opus 35 no. 22) but there are similari
Yes, that's the one! (Sor's version is No. 5 at )
EC
On 8 Aug 2005, at 17:35, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>> Well, thanks for clearing that one up!
>> The arpeggio pattern is different in the Sor study (which I now
>> discover is Opus 35 no. 22) but there are similarities in the chord
>> sequence suffi
> Well, thanks for clearing that one up!
> The arpeggio pattern is different in the Sor study (which I now
> discover is Opus 35 no. 22) but there are similarities in the chord
> sequence sufficient to make the resemblance striking - and, yes it
> must be that guitarists are just very credulo
Well, thanks for clearing that one up!
The arpeggio pattern is different in the Sor study (which I now
discover is Opus 35 no. 22) but there are similarities in the chord
sequence sufficient to make the resemblance striking - and, yes it
must be that guitarists are just very credulous people!
Eric Crouch wrote:
> 2) Someone repeated the belief commonly held among guitarists that
> Beethoven wrote "Moonlight Sonata" after hearing Fernando Sor's study
> in B minor for guitar. (I think it's from Sor's opus 31, but I'm not
> sure because my copy hasn't got the opus no. on it.) I'd be
> int
I've just come back from a four day guitar workshop and read this
thread. During the course of the workshop:
1) I watched Christopher Nupen's documentary on Segovia made when the
Maestro was 75. During this programme Segovia talked about the guitar
as an orchestra in miniature (though I can'
> I think guitar habitually makes unrealistic claims..
> >
> > Such as?
> >
> > JE
> Ever seen the Yamashita circus?
> RT
>
> That's an excellent specific example of one person's "unrealism", I
agree;
> but I was hoping for an explanation of your seemingly general "claim"
about
> the "guitar'
I think guitar habitually makes unrealistic claims..
>
> Such as?
>
> JE
Ever seen the Yamashita circus?
RT
That's an excellent specific example of one person's "unrealism", I agree;
but I was hoping for an explanation of your seemingly general "claim" about
the "guitar's habits".
JE
> In a message dated 8/3/2005 1:52:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I think guitar habitually makes unrealistic claims..
>
> Such as?
>
> JE
Ever seen the Yamashita circus?
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lut
In a message dated 8/3/2005 1:52:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think guitar habitually makes unrealistic claims..
Such as?
JE
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Stuart,
> The passage from Segovia's autobiography which I vaguely remember goes
something
> like:
>
> "You play the guitar to woo your lover. When you are betrayed by your
lover,
> you play the cello to tell your sorrows to your friend. When you are
betrayed
> by your friend, you play the organ
tell your sorrows to God."
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
In a message dated 8/3/2005 2:36:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[
> > would encouraging non-adults (children) to play descant lutes _in
> > public_ qualify as an offence of the under-59-cm act? Would lack of
> > other players than my seven-year-old daughter save me from getting
> > filed? Howard?
>
> To be fair, Roman's prohibition (far less sweeping than is usu
Mathias Rösel wrote:
> would encouraging non-adults (children) to play descant lutes _in
> public_ qualify as an offence of the under-59-cm act? Would lack of
> other players than my seven-year-old daughter save me from getting
> filed? Howard?
To be fair, Roman's prohibition (far less sweeping t
Excellently said!
I once participated in a masterclass with Robert Spencer. My lute had
just travelled 100 Km in Nova Scotian winter conditions and I had just
changed to my first set of gut strings. Needless to say tuning was a
misery, and I suffered the embarassment of wasting considerable ti
"Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> So it's a mistake to try to write profound music for the lute?
Only if it is a lute in in a or higher.
>>> Are we assuming A=440 for these purposes? If so, is it OK to write
profound music for lute in A if we're at A=392?
>> Let me put it
'THE ZONK OF THE LUTE IS OUT OFA' TUNA HALFA DA TIMEA'
SORRY - I COULDN'T HELP IT
ss
Salvatore Salvaggio
http://www.Salvaggio.50megs.com
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.co
> > > >> So it's a mistake to try to write profound music for the lute?
> > > > Only if it is a lute in in a or higher.
> > >
> > > Are we assuming A=440 for these purposes? If so, is it OK to write
> > > profound music for lute in A if we're at A=392?
> > Let me put it this way: there should be
> > > Let me put it this way: there should be a set minimum string length,
> > > something like 59-60 cm, with severe legal penalties otherwise.
> >
> > Have we told the violinists?
We are NOT violinists, thankfully.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth
"Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> > >> So it's a mistake to try to write profound music for the lute?
> > > Only if it is a lute in in a or higher.
> >
> > Are we assuming A=440 for these purposes? If so, is it OK to write
> > profound music for lute in A if we're at A=392?
> Let m
On Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005, at 15:04 America/Los_Angeles, Roman Turovsky
wrote:
> Let me put it this way: there should be a set minimum string length,
> something like 59-60 cm, with severe legal penalties otherwise.
Have we told the violinists?
To get on or off this list see list information
In a message dated 8/3/2005 2:36:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Segovia also said:
The song of the piano is a discourse.
The song of the 'cello is an elegy.
But the song of the guitar is a song.
(Actually, to be more correct, he said "The zonk of the guitar is a
zonk", but
f Maryland, 1972). Cited NG 2 (1980 ed.): 610.
arthur
- Original Message -
From: Alain Veylit
To: Arthur Ness
Cc: Lute Net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
Actually I thought it was Segovia, who said that each string
> >> So it's a mistake to try to write profound music for the lute?
> > Only if it is a lute in in a or higher.
>
> Are we assuming A=440 for these purposes? If so, is it OK to write
> profound music for lute in A if we're at A=392?
Let me put it this way: there should be a set minimum string le
"Marcus Merrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> Segovia also said:
> The song of the piano is a discourse.
> The song of the 'cello is an elegy.
> But the song of the guitar is a song.
>
> (Actually, to be more correct, he said "The zonk of the guitar is a
> zonk", but I have translated/translitera
Segovia also said:
The song of the piano is a discourse.
The song of the 'cello is an elegy.
But the song of the guitar is a song.
(Actually, to be more correct, he said "The zonk of the guitar is a
zonk", but I have translated/transliterated)
But what is the song of the lute?
Marcus
Alain Veyl
Roman Turovsky wrote:
>> So it's a mistake to try to write profound music for the lute?
> Only if it is a lute in in a or higher.
Are we assuming A=440 for these purposes? If so, is it OK to write
profound music for lute in A if we're at A=392?
To get on or off this list see list information
At 04:59 PM 8/3/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>I think guitar habitually makes unrealistic claims..
Like lutes, mandolins, serpents, mandoras, etc., guitars are only inanimate
tools. Guitars can't be blamed for what passionate, sometimes overzealous
guitarists do in their name.
Eugene
T
> > I might sound disrespectful of an entire instrument, but it would be
> > impossible to make a small rodent roar like a large feline. The most
> > profound lines given to squeaky voice would lose all impact.
>
> So it's a mistake to try to write profound music for the lute?
Only if it is a lu
> > > would have offered the guitar anything different.
> >I might sound disrespectful of an entire instrument, but it would be
> >impossible to make a small rodent roar like a large feline. The most
> >profound lines given to squeaky voice would lose all impact.
>
>
> There you go. I actually lik
On Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005, at 13:45 America/Los_Angeles, Roman Turovsky
wrote:
> I might sound disrespectful of an entire instrument, but it would be
> impossible to make a small rodent roar like a large feline. The most
> profound lines given to squeaky voice would lose all impact.
So it's a m
At 04:45 PM 8/3/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
> > would have offered the guitar anything different.
>I might sound disrespectful of an entire instrument, but it would be
>impossible to make a small rodent roar like a large feline. The most
>profound lines given to squeaky voice would lose all impact.
> At 04:17 PM 8/3/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
> >Quirks don't make profound.
> >
> >Technical idiosyncrfasies are not musical substance.
>
>
> I certainly wouldn't argue that they are, but they are important
> considerations of instrumental composition and can amount to something
> rather exciting.
At 04:17 PM 8/3/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>Quirks don't make profound.
>
>Technical idiosyncrfasies are not musical substance.
I certainly wouldn't argue that they are, but they are important
considerations of instrumental composition and can amount to something
rather exciting. That's why G
On Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005, at 12:33 America/Los_Angeles, Eugene C.
Braig IV wrote:
> There is also a fair chance he would have
> encountered mandoras in tunings identical or nearly so to later
> six-string
> guitars.
Maybe it's a hallucination of long standing, but I recall seeing a
picture of
> >Are you joking? Eugene, this is like saying tuna was whitebait.
> >Are you not familiar with Mass in c-minor, Requiem, sonatas in a and c,
> >fantasias in d and c, 25th symphony, concerti ##20, 24 & 26???
> Not joking at all. But you've removed my assertion from its
> context. There's a reason
At 03:48 PM 8/3/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
>Are you joking? Eugene, this is like saying tuna was whitebait.
>Are you not familiar with Mass in c-minor, Requiem, sonatas in a and c,
>fantasias in d and c, 25th symphony, concerti ##20, 24 & 26???
Not joking at all. But you've removed my assertion
at Schubert had a guitar hanging on the wall above his
>bed.
>
>This should end Guitar Mythology 101 for tonite.
> - Original Message -
> From: Jon Murphy
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 3:40 PM
&
At 02:59 PM 8/3/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Not pining, but I think Mozart was a much better composer than the ones
>mentioned above; it would've been interesting. Any guitar that Mozart
>might've heard at that time would probably have been the five course type
>anyway...
It was a transit
In a message dated 8/3/2005 1:37:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
And Mertz, Carcassi, Carulli, Matiegka, von Call, Gragnani, Sychra, Weber,
etc. Feel free to enjoy the guitar for what it is; there's no need to pine
over
what it has not been.
Not pining, but I think Mo
> Roman Turovsky wrote:
>
> > 2. Some are discussing Kapsberger, although even his champions admit
> > that as
> > a composer he was simply incompetent.
See Lislevand's booklet a propos.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
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Roman Turovsky wrote:
> 2. Some are discussing Kapsberger, although even his champions admit
> that as
> a composer he was simply incompetent.
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Thanks Howard!
That's it!
Garry
-Original Message-
From: Howard Posner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:55 AM
To: Garry Bryan
Cc: 'lute'
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
On Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005, at 07:02 America/Los_Angeles, Gar
On Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005, at 07:02 America/Los_Angeles, Garry Bryan
wrote:
> who created the painting/lithograph/? of the
> guitarists engaged in a salon battle?
Are you thinking of the "Discussion between the Carullists and the
Molinists" fro La Guitaromanie by Charles de Marescot?
To get
..and since we're off-topic, who created the painting/lithograph/? of the
guitarists engaged in a salon battle? I believe it was circa 1850. I'd love to
find a copy of that one. All of those guitars being wielded as weapons!
Sort of reminds me of this list occasionally >:)
Garry
To get on
> > ...I guess my
> > point was;
> > wouldn't it be great to have a genius like Mozart ( assuming he
> > would know the
> > guitar as well as he did the piano) writing pieces for guitar?
It would be nice indeed, but he obviously didn't find it inspirational.
> I need to add the disclaimer that I
> Roman just forgets the expression "in my humble opinion" in his
> composer and musician critics ... ;-)
I always interpret the abbreviation IMHO as "in my HONEST opinion".
RT
___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Trans
> Really, children.
>
> I thought we had moved on past the guitar-bashing stage. Roman doesn't
like Giuliani (I wonder who will be discussing Roman after he's been dead
for 150 years)
1. Happens to the best of us, as you may recall.
2. Some are discussing Kapsberger, although even his champions adm
Hi all,
on Wednesday 03 August 2005 15:08, Mayes, Joseph wrote:
> I thought we had moved on past the guitar-bashing stage. Roman
> doesn't like Giuliani (I wonder who will be discussing Roman after
> he's been dead for 150 years)
Roman just forgets the expression "in my humble opinion" in his
Don't forget Brian Jeffery's Sor biography.
- Original Message -
From: Sal Salvaggio
To: Jon Murphy ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
Hi All
There is a
it a
rest!
Joseph Mayes
From: gary digman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed 8/3/2005 5:25 AM
To: lutelist
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
I seem to recall having read a quote attributed to Berlioz to the effect
that, "There is no sound worse than the
> Beethoven is sometimes said to have attended a guitar recital by Giuliani.
If he did, of course, he heard nothing! He even wrote a little note to
> one of his Viennese publishers, asking "please give my regards to
Giuliani." Of course, the publisher's Giuliani might be the guy who
polished up t
Hi All
There is a fantastic biography by Thomas F. Heck
entitled "Mauro Giuliani Virtuoso Guitarist and
Composer" pub. by Editions Orphee 1995 that chronicles
the guitarist's life, the guitar in Italy and it's
place in the concert life of Vienna. A fascinating
must read for those interested in gu
t the
guitar."
- Original Message -
From: Jon Murphy
To: Arthur Ness ; LGS-Europe ; Lute Net ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
Arthur,
If I may, and I did spend some typing time saying how much I respe
ED]>; "LGS-Europe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Lute Net" ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
> The quotation that the guitar is like a miniature orchestra is NOT from
Mozart. The quotation is NOT fr
PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
The quotation that the guitar is like a miniature orchestra is NOT from
Mozart. The quotation is NOT from Beethoven. The quotation is in an essay
about the guitar that BERLIOZ wrote for an obscu
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2005 1:59 am
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
> ...I guess my
> point was;
> wouldn't it be great to have a genius like Mozart ( assuming he
> would know the
> guitar as well as he did the p
- Original Message -
From: Arthur Ness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2005 4:04 am
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
> ...There's no factual basis for the belief common in the
> guitar world that Giuliani influenced Beethoven. They may never
> eve
PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Mozart for guitar
Also OT,
In my aging memory there is a quote from Mozart (probably apochryphal). "The
guitar is an orchestra unto itself". I have no idea where I saw it, or heard
it, but it was many years ago so
Also OT,
In my aging memory there is a quote from Mozart (probably apochryphal). "The
guitar is an orchestra unto itself". I have no idea where I saw it, or heard
it, but it was many years ago so I have lost the context. If the quote is
accurate then it might imply that Mozart might have had guita
In a message dated 8/1/2005 11:10:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But there are many original 19th century arrangements ;-) of Mozart pieces
for guitar. Apart from the obvious Sor, Diabelli, Mertz, Morlitor and Traeg
come to mind. There's a well-done new edition of 'Mozart
- Original Message -
From: LGS-Europe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2005 2:05 am
Subject: OT: Mozart for guitar
> > I do wish Mozart had written for the
> > guitar though. :)
>
> But there are many original 19th century arrangements ;-) of
>
> I do wish Mozart had written for the
> guitar though. :)
But there are many original 19th century arrangements ;-) of Mozart pieces
for guitar. Apart from the obvious Sor, Diabelli, Mertz, Morlitor and Traeg
come to mind. There's a well-done new edition of 'Mozart for Guitar' from
Doblinger
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