Attila Kinali writes:
> It's still not graylisting. [...] The "refused to talk to me"
> makes it clear that my server didn't even get a greeting, but above
> error message instead. So, yahoo doesn't even know who the sender
> or recipient is. Ie, the whole thing is IP based.
OK, that's a lo
On 2/21/08, Dov Zamir wrote:
> SPF DNS records are now mandatory. Hotmail announced that they would not
> receive any mail from a source with no SPF record from the first day it
> became mandatory a couple of years ago, but did not actually carry out
> the threat at that time, however, it seem
Stephen J. Turnbull, on 2/20/2008 7:32 PM, said the following:
> But the problem is that *Brian* (as an example) is an ISP whose
> reliability comes into question not because *his* customers use Yahoo,
> but because *his customers'* customers (subscribers, whatever) use
> Yahoo. His customers are
Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Oh, and Windows Live (you can't call it Hotmail anymore) requires
>that you have a registered Windows Live ID before you can sign up for
>their equivalent "Smart Network Data Services" program.
Yes, they do require you to register for an ID, but once that is done,
the onl
ציטוט Mark Sapiro:
> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>> Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"? If so,
>> do you think they're lying about that, or something? (I'm not
>> claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
>> really care whether Yahoo customers
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:48:38 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Attila Kinali writes:
>
> > > This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
> > > blanket policy.
> >
> > It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
> > a day
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:05:28 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"? If so,
> do you think they're lying about that, or something? (I'm not
> claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
> really
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:52:29 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Attila Kinali writes:
>
> > It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.
>
> But that's simply not true. AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as
> does Hotmail. I've had problems with a numb
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Granted, Brad himself often criticizes the implementation at AOL,
> Yahoo, et al. But the underlying strategy is the same. "Stop spam as
> far upstream as you can."
Yeah, but SPF/SenderID and DKIM/DomainKeys are not the right tools to
be forcing ever
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> C'mon, Mark, you know that the only problem here is that there's no
> accepted standard; they have to authenticate "you" somehow (do you
> really want me to be able to spoof you and get information about your
> mail to Yahoo customers?), and the right "
On 2/20/08, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> The really bad situation is when an e-mail forwarder that is setup on my
> server that forwards both legitimate mail and spam (when it makes it through
> my anti-spam system) to their AOL or Yahoo account and the user then clicks
> that wicked "spam" button
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.
>
> But that's simply not true. AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as
> does Hotmail. I've had problems with a number of universities, as
> well (deserved, in a sense, but it was damn h
On 2/20/08, Attila Kinali wrote:
>> This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
>> blanket policy.
>
> It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
> a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
> Any greylisting that
On 2/21/08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> If you're in a hosted environment, you might think about asking your
> host to implement domain keys and/or PGP-signing your mail. (Mailman
> is (was?) not friendly to domain keys of non-owner posters, but in the
> case of an announcement list having t
Mark Sapiro writes:
> That's not what I understood it to say. I understand they need to
> authenticate me somehow as the person authorized to receive reports
> about my mail to yahoo.com recipients, but I thought it said that in
> order for me to participate in the feedback program at all, my
Brian Carpenter writes:
> This wouldn't be a problem if they just applied a filter to that person's
> e-mail address but to block an server's IP from sending any e-mail to all
> their users?
Hold that shudder ...
> and none of the major e-mail providers are willing to come up with
> a syst
<>
I thought so Brian, so RRRGGG!
And I only have prob with ONE aol'er (who HAS a comcast account but keeps
forgetting his comcast password!!!). So periodically I have top open a Service
Ticket with my provider and ask them to RE-contact (POS) aol.
Goog thing is tho, only
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > Then I read further and found "To participate in the program,
> > senders must sign their outbound emails with DomainKeys (DKIM is
> > not currently supported)."
> >
> > This is the second time in recent weeks that some large mail service
> >
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:23 PM
> To: Brian Carpenter; 'Gabriel Millerd'; mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
>
> Brian Ca
Mark Sapiro writes:
> Then I read further and found "To participate in the program,
> senders must sign their outbound emails with DomainKeys (DKIM is
> not currently supported)."
>
> This is the second time in recent weeks that some large mail service
> has used it's 600 lb. gorilla status
Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>I find it very problematic when a large ISP such as AOL and Yahoo allows their
>users to define what is spam is and what is not.
Well, in one sense, only the final recipient can determine what is spam
and what is not, but I certainly agree that providing a "this is spam
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>Are you getting the "deferral based on customer complaints"? If so,
>do you think they're lying about that, or something? (I'm not
>claiming that you or any of your clients are spamming, and I don't
>really care whether Yahoo customers are on average dumber than a
>f
> -Original Message-
> From: Gabriel Millerd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:51 PM
> To: Brian Carpenter; mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:4
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Brian Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As for customer complaints, I would not be able to tell since Yahoo makes it
> just about impossible to get on their feedback loop program. Believe me AOL
>
Couldnt this just be an issue of people on the list marki
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also, the messages I see, and the message Rick posted all seem to come
> in response to the initial connect. Thus, Rick's hosting company
> should be looking at themselve rather than Rick's list since it is
> apparently
> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:05 PM
> To: Brian Carpenter
> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
>
> Brian Carpenter writ
ECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen J.
> Turnbull
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:33 PM
> To: Charles Marcus
> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
>
> Charles Marcus writes:
>
> > No one has a 'Right' to ta
Charles Marcus writes:
> No one has a 'Right' to talk to anyone else's mail server.
Everybody here concedes that, I think.
> If they aren't playing well, document it: let anyone who uses your
> services know that if THEY choose to use a problematic service, that is
> their choice and their
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>Attila Kinali writes:
>
> > > This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
> > > blanket policy.
> >
> > It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
> > a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic o
Brian Carpenter writes:
> Well we have been using domain keys as per yahoo's instructions and I
> haven't seen any reductions in yahoo's deferrals.
Well, they don't promise that any of those measures will get your mail
through. And, to be sure, if I were them, I would not count domain
keys as
Attila Kinali writes:
> It's just yahoo that behaves like a black sheep in this game.
But that's simply not true. AOL has a deservedly bad reputation, as
does Hotmail. I've had problems with a number of universities, as
well (deserved, in a sense, but it was damn hard to get off the ban
list o
Attila Kinali writes:
> > This is just selective greylisting, which lots of sites use as a
> > blanket policy.
>
> It's definitly not greylisting. Our server sends out a few dozen mails
> a day on the low traffic lists to a few hundred on the high traffic ones.
> Any greylisting that is hal
Charles Marcus wrote:
> On 2/20/2008, Dennis Black ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>> postfix/main.cf
>> yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5 # matches Yahoo's limit
>> yahoo_destination_concurreny_limit = 2
>>
>
> I may be wrong, but I don't think you can add comments like that, onl
On 2/20/2008, Dennis Black ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> postfix/main.cf
> yahoo_destination_recipient_limit = 5 # matches Yahoo's limit
> yahoo_destination_concurreny_limit = 2
I may be wrong, but I don't think you can add comments like that, only
on lines that START with a '#'... so it
On 2/20/2008, Brian Carpenter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>>> I think Yahoo should be sued for their interference of legitimate
>>> e-mail communications
>> Sorry, I just don't see this... they are providing a FREE service.
>>
>> If you aren't happy with it, go somewhere else.
>>
>> What I would
> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> You're welcome to like the attitude, but it's really just the flip
> side of Yahoo's. The problem is spam, not Yahoo, and Yahoo serves a
> clientele that in general cares more about spam getting through when
> t
> On 2/20/2008, Brian Carpenter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > I think Yahoo should be sued for their interference of legitimate
> > e-mail communications
>
> Sorry, I just don;'t see this... they are providing a FREE service.
>
> If you aren;t happy with it, go somewhere else.
>
> What I would
On 2/20/2008, Brian Carpenter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I think Yahoo should be sued for their interference of legitimate
> e-mail communications
Sorry, I just don;'t see this... they are providing a FREE service.
If you aren;t happy with it, go somewhere else.
What I would do if I were you i
From: "Rick Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
[206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02] Messages from 216.104.33.122
Quoting Larry Stone ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > I'm not blaming Mailman...I'm just asking if there is something about
> > Mailman that I can change that will overcome this. Changing anything about
> > Yahoo would be like changing heaven and earth. Surely, someone else is
> > experiencing this issue
Mark Sapiro wrote at 08:21 AM 2/20/2008:
>>Thanks for your reply. I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
>>and ultimately something that will never be cured. I was hoping since I
>>only run one small list that there was a "magic" switch that I could flip
>>that would get past Yahoo
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:30:38 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Brian Carpenter writes:
> [ IIRC it was Attila Kinali who wrote: ]
>
> > > If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
> > > they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
> > >
今晩は
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:11:04 +0900
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Attila Kinali writes:
>
> > On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
> > "Rick Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
> > > fro
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:31 AM
To: Brian Carpenter
Cc: 'Attila Kinali'; 'Rick Harris'; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
Brian Carpenter writes:
[ IIRC it was Attila Kinali who wrote: ]
&
Brian Carpenter writes:
[ IIRC it was Attila Kinali who wrote: ]
> > If yahoo wants to receive mails from my server (and i'm sure
> > they want because their users subscribed to my lists), then
> > they have to play nice like everyone else too.
>
> I like your attitude!
You're welcome to li
Attila Kinali writes:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
> "Rick Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
> > from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
> > [206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis Black [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:24 AM
> To: Brian Carpenter
> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
>
> Brian Carpenter wrote:
&g
Brian Carpenter wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rick Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:57 AM
>> To: 'Brian Carpenter'; 'Attila Kinali'
>> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
>> Subject: RE: [Mai
Rick Harris wrote:
>Thanks for your reply. I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
>and ultimately something that will never be cured. I was hoping since I
>only run one small list that there was a "magic" switch that I could flip
>that would get past Yahoo.
If you are convinced tha
> "Rick Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Yes. I am on a shared server. It seems that Yahoo picks up on the
> fact
> > that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the
> flag).
> > Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for
> personalization
> > is turne
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:57:22 -0600
"Rick Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes. I am on a shared server. It seems that Yahoo picks up on the fact
> that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the flag).
> Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for personali
> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:57 AM
> To: 'Brian Carpenter'; 'Attila Kinali'
> Cc: mailman-users@python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
&
Hello,
2008/2/20, Rick Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Yes. I am on a shared server. It seems that Yahoo picks up on the fact
> that this is going to multiple recipients (apparent 5+ raises the flag).
> Since I am on a shared server, it appears that my option for personalization
> is turned off
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:48:17 -0500
"Brian Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I really think the best option is to get our mailman list subscribers to
> start using another e-mail provider. I think Yahoo should be sued for their
> interference of legitimate e-mail communications and the way th
Rick Harris'
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
> > My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> addresses
> > and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying
> out
> >
> > My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> addresses
> > and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying
> out
> > loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for
> Saturday!
> > All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:15:58 -0600
"Rick Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
> from remote mail server after initial connection: host g.mx.mail.yahoo.com
> [206.190.53.191]: 421 4.7.0 [TS02] Messages from 216.104.33.122 temporari
Rick Harris wrote:
> Thanks for your reply. I understand that ultimately it is a Yahoo problem
> and ultimately something that will never be cured. I was hoping since I
> only run one small list that there was a "magic" switch that I could flip
> that would get past Yahoo.
>
> Rick Harris
>
>
-
From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:13 AM
To: 'Rick Harris'; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
>
> My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> ad
>
> My Mailman list is very small with < 20 members and only 3 Yahoo
> addresses
> and the user complaint thing is bogus. This is a golf list for crying
> out
> loud.all of the members want to know what their tee times are for
> Saturday!
> All of Yahoo addresses have the same issue, even my own w
On 2/20/08 6:06 AM, Rick Harris at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thank you for the response.
>
> I have spent time testing individual mail to the same addresses from the
> same source and I am successful.
>
> What I failed to note in my posting is that this occurs when the mail is
> going to multip
This sounds like an anitspam tactic to me. Messages addressed to multiple
recipients are deferred, since a lot of spammers won't try sending a deferred
message again; It's not worth their time or resources to keep track of deferred
messages, and then go back and retry them. A legitimate mail wil
k Harris
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman postings deferred by Yahoo
Hi,
2008/2/20, Rick Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> My hosting company tells me that the mail logs indicate that the majority
of
> Mailman's messages to Yahoo addresses return a "
Hi,
2008/2/20, Rick Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> My hosting company tells me that the mail logs indicate that the majority of
> Mailman's messages to Yahoo addresses return a "deferred" message. Here is
> the complete message:
This is not even remotely mailman related. I have the same issue wit
My hosting company tells me that the mail logs indicate that the majority of
Mailman's messages to Yahoo addresses return a "deferred" message. Here is
the complete message:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp defer (0): SMTP error
from remote mail server after initial connection: hos
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