>1) Arms and the man I sing of. . .
>2) I sing of one man and his weapons. . .
>3) I tell of Aeneas and his armaments
Surely all these are horrible?
Caroline Butler
---
To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit
Hi everyone,
I gladly appreciate everyone's input and apparently I'm going to find a
copy of Dryden's Aeneid. I admit personally that Dryden was a fairly
competent poet if not the best during the Augustan era (English one I
meant). Of course, are we to criticize the epics by Homer translated by
Po
>I'm with Randi on this one. The Latinisms don't bother me, but the couplets
>do: not because I don't like rhyme, but because Dryden's couplets tend to
>reduce everything that's said or done in the poem to a pithy little
>epigram; that works for some of the Eclogues (and even some of the
>Georgics)
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Leofranc Holford-Strevens wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> David Wilson-Okamura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> >At 09:34 AM 10/16/98 -0500, Randi Eldevik wrote:
> >Dryden's couplets tend to
> >reduce everything that's said or done in the poem to a pithy little
> >epi
Greg Farnum writes of me (and to me):
>It sounds like you yourself are a poet. I'd love to know a little more
>about your work.
I'm not a poet, but have sometimes attempted to translate poetry. I once
did a translation of a famous ancient Roman epitaph in archaic Latin that
begins "hospes quod d
Please, David, let us have a report about what he says.
>The translation thread reminds me that Allen Mandelbaum is giving a talk
>Saturday, October 24, 11am - 2pm, at the Newberry Library in downtown
>Chicago, entitled "Gates of Horn, Gates of Ivory."
Simon Cauchi
Freelance Editor and Indexer
Well, there speaks a Dryden specialist and an obvious partisan. I would
never say that Dryden's translation is difficult to read; I know well
enough what Dryden is getting at when he says "refulgent"; but I maintain
that it's an adjective lacking in pungency for English speakers. I'm not
sure I'd
Aren't we talking about a 17C audience when we judge how conscientious Mr.
Dryden was in translating Virgil? Most of his audience would have had a
classical education -- Latinate words like refulgent would have carried
their roots more directly than they do for Dryden's readers today. So I'm no
Thanks, Leofranc. Almost exactly what I would have said myself if I'd had
time, though you adduce some examples that are new and interesting to me.
For the benefit of novices in ancient & medieval studies, I would add only
that the medieval Christian church had no need to feel threatened by
Greco-
I think an interesting issue here is the purpose of translation. (I have
recently been experiencing this with students of Catullus, which is
perhaps rather a long way from Virgil, but . . . )
Does one want a faithful reproduction of the Latin, almost a 'key'? -
which acts as a kind of decoding
>I can't agree with the recommendation of Dryden. Anyone who would
>translate Latin "refulgens" by the English inkhorn term "refulgent" is not
>doing his job conscientiously. "Refulgent" does not have the same
>descriptive force for English readers that "refulgens" had for ancient
>Romans. That'
>I can't agree with the recommendation of Dryden. Anyone who would
>translate Latin "refulgens" by the English inkhorn term "refulgent" is not
>doing his job conscientiously. "Refulgent" does not have the same
>descriptive force for English readers that "refulgens" had for ancient
>Romans. That'
The Christianising effect which comes most immediately to mind is in
Apuleius in the Cena, where the mss read : abbas secrevit. This was
emended by ?? (text not to hand, sorry) to read: ab asse crevit.
Lyn Straka
> -Original Message-
> From: Leofranc Holford-Strevens [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTE
>Perhaps other listmembers would like to contribute scribal Christianism
>they have encountered (I have some others).
A number of entertaining examples from the MSS of Livy 1-5 are cited by
R.M. Ogilvie, "Monastic Corruption," G&R 18 (1971), 32-34.
Gregory Hay
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
David Wilson-Okamura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>At 09:34 AM 10/16/98 -0500, Randi Eldevik wrote:
>Dryden's couplets tend to
>reduce everything that's said or done in the poem to a pithy little
>epigram; that works for some of the Eclogues (and even some of the
>Geor
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
edu>, RANDI C ELDEVIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Misinformation like this should not go uncorrected on Mantovano, but I
>can't remain any longer at my desk right now. Would someone like to
>explain what is wrong here?
>Thanks,
>Randi Eldevik
>On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, KI
Please send me your paper. I'd love to read it!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brian Gallagher
Boston University
-
The message below was posted by a body that calls itself "The
Oracle". Could we have a sample of the mistranslations, please. As
someone who was taught a bit of Latin by David West, I would be
absolutely fascinated, and the Mantovanists would be shown
justification for the Oracle's statement.
The translation thread reminds me that Allen Mandelbaum is giving a talk
Saturday, October 24, 11am - 2pm, at the Newberry Library in downtown
Chicago, entitled "Gates of Horn, Gates of Ivory." Details and registration
(which is free) are available online at
http://www.newberry.org/renais
At 09:34 AM 10/16/98 -0500, Randi Eldevik wrote:
>I can't agree with the recommendation of Dryden. Anyone who would
>translate Latin "refulgens" by the English inkhorn term "refulgent" is not
>doing his job conscientiously. "Refulgent" does not have the same
>descriptive force for English readers
The work of translation in Dryden's day is clearly a different exercise to
what it is today, when the translator is often trying to make available to
a lay audience as much of the poetry and art of the latin as possible in
the hope that some degree of that might be successfully conveyed. I would
im
I would disagree with Randi here on a number of grounds, and would share all
of Simon Cauchi's preferences. I think Dryden is by far the greatest English
translator of the Aeneid, both at the level of minute lexical choices and
the higher level of imaginative affinity with his subject. My chief rea
> A recent and very
>good prose translation is by David West (Penguin, once again).
>
Yes I liked the West translation, its very straightforward and
accesible, but frankly there are some mis-translations in it that are
unbelievable. Especially of individual words where the word chosen seems
t
I can't agree with the recommendation of Dryden. Anyone who would
translate Latin "refulgens" by the English inkhorn term "refulgent" is not
doing his job conscientiously. "Refulgent" does not have the same
descriptive force for English readers that "refulgens" had for ancient
Romans. That's jus
I would love to read the paper on Roman Difficulty with Latin.
Please send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Humanities & Philology
Universitat Oberta de Catalunya
Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain)
Thanks.
Narcís Figueras Capdevila
>I'm going to read the Aeneid in English for the seond time after having
>read Fitzgerald's version a few years ago.
>
>However, does anyone have a particularly favorite and I would like a
>justification why? Should Virigl's work be better rendered in prose or
>verse?
Here's my advice:
If you can
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