Rich- I think the shield is one of the great mysteries in the Aeneid, but it
is an integral part of the plot. Aeneas is about to begin fighting seriously
to get his foothold in Italy- the images, like the characters in the
underworld in 6, represent his (Aeneas') and Rome's destiny.
Your d
In 31 b.c., Octavian (later known as Augustus) defeats Mark Antony and
Cleopatra at the Battle of Actium, gaining sole leadership in Rome.
This event is the central image on the shield:
in medio classis aeratas, Actia bella,
cernere erat, totumque instructo Marte videres
f
Perhaps Virgil consciously chooses to compare Aeneas to Augustus, in the idea
that just as Augustus defeated Cleopatra and Antony, enemies to the state and
his own advancement of Rome's power and prestigue, so too must Aeneas fight
against those who try to thwart his own founding of a homeland?
but Aeneas, when we come right down to it, has not the faintest idea of
what he is doing, historically. for augustus, it is clear that
cleopartra and antony are 'enemies to the state', but aeneas has no
state, and insofar as his state can be equated with the goal of founding
a state, deciding who i
but Aeneas, when we come right down to it, has not the faintest idea of
what he is doing, historically. for augustus, it is clear that
cleopartra and antony are 'enemies to the state', but aeneas has no
state, and insofar as his state can be equated with the goal of founding
a state, deciding wh
how do you explain the death of Turnus at the
> end of book 12? That was an act that could have been avoided if Aeneas had
> shown the clementia of either Caesar or Augustus, yet he did not- perhaps it
> is the battle within Aeneas to conquer himself. I have great problems
> equating Aeneas with
actually, the more i think about it, the more interesting it gets. if
the gods are seen as personifications of the force of history, then
vulcan, who forges the shield, also in some way forges the new aeneas,
or at least contributes to the forging.
there is a moving away from one's own name tow
<< forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:29:49 -0600
From: "Bruce R. Magee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It's not a distraction; it's an ekphrasis! The idea of the ekphrasis of
the shield goes back to Homer, of course, and description of Achilles'
shield. You might re
matthewspencer schrieb:
>
>
> how do you explain the death of Turnus at the
> > end of book 12? That was an act that could have been avoided if Aeneas had
> > shown the clementia of either Caesar or Augustus, yet he did not- perhaps it
> > is the battle within Aeneas to conquer himself. I have gre
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: VIRGIL: Shield in book eight
the first half of Aeneis is an Odyssee (or an Anti-Odyssee); the second half
is
an Ilias (or an Anti-
> what shall this brackets-salad mean? word-by-word-translation?
> who kills whom can be seen by "illi" - in those brackets translated with
> "his",
> but it has the direction to the "other" person: demonstrative pronoun >to the
> distant person.
> "illi" (Dativ) means the enemy, Turnus.
> the
The reason Hans thinks it is an unfinished work is because it is. Aside form
the several half lines throughout the poem (I believe eight), Virgil himself
asked his friends to destroy the work on his death bed because he felt it
could not be published (it was Augustus who stopped this from happe
It is not just the pronoun "illi" but the particle "ast" in the lines in
question which assure us that the logical subject has switched from Aeneas
to Turnus, and thus that it is Turnus who dies. A better place to start
from if you want to look for reflections of Aeneas' character in dying
Turnus
>The reason Hans thinks it is an unfinished work is because it is. Aside form
>the several half lines throughout the poem (I believe eight),
Fifty-eight, if my count is correct.
++
Gregory Hays
Dept. of Classics, University of Virginia
401 Cabell Hall
P.O. Box 400788
Charlott
tinus, Confessiones, lib. XI cap. xx
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:10 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: V
Thomas Coens schrieb:
> in Homer time is cyclical (images of the wheeling heavens, the
> changing seasons, the people joining together in a circle); the
> dilemma of the Homeric hero is timeless, eternally recurring.
> By contrast, time on Aeneas' shield is linear. Events occur at a
> determinabl
<< message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
From: "Michael-janck Snydert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 17:58:38 UZT
Everything mirrors opposites, not to sound rambling or discouraging, but
infinity does exist - to quote the saying: "we must repeat". Perhaps not
enou
David Wilson-Okamura schrieb:
> << message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
>
> From: "Michael-janck Snydert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 17:58:38 UZT
> It may be that the writer of that Aeneas has only done such a good
> characterization, that his model accidental
The trajectory of the Aeneid seems complete, although the poem is
unfinished.
I think Aeneas does distance himself from the killing of Turnus - indeed he
even gives up his own agency in claiming that Pallas is the killer and
avenger.
Since Philip Thibodeau brought up an interesting echo on the ph
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