Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

The plutocrats are incensed. On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:42 PM fmiser via Mercedes wrote: > > Randy wrote: > > > Man very early made jar stand up nearly perpendicular. > > Except Pluto is no longer classified as a planet, but one of the > sub-planets > >

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

> Randy wrote: > Man very early made jar stand up nearly perpendicular. Except Pluto is no longer classified as a planet, but one of the sub-planets ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

"The only way to win is cheat, and lay them down before I'm beat."M*A*S*H -Curt On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 6:35:45 PM EST, Craig via Mercedes wrote: When I was at Caltech, we remembered them as:         1. You can't win.         2. You can't break even.         3. You can't

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

ssage- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott > Ritchey via Mercedes > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:54 PM > To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' > Cc: Scott Ritchey > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power > > Twi

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

On 26/02/2020 5:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: If we’re talking mnemonics, here are some I learned for electrical stuff: “Virgins Are Rare” - Ohm’s Law (V = A x R) The “A” is really “I”, but this was helpful. ELI the ICE man - Inductance (L) - E is ahead of I, Capacitive (C) - I is

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

on cold air to store power Twinkle twinkle little star, power equals I squared R > -Original Message- > From: Dan> Penoff via Mercedes > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power > > If we’re talking mnemonics, here are some I learned fo

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Twinkle twinkle little star, power equals I squared R > -Original Message- > From: Dan> Penoff via Mercedes > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power > > If we’re talking mnemonics, here are some I learned for electrical stuff: > > “V

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Killjoy!    ;>) But doncha know, Albore has rescinded the laws of physics  (so he can run scams to make money) Scott Ritchey via Mercedes February 26, 2020 at 11:17 PM Second and third laws of thermodynamics say not/

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Second and third laws of thermodynamics say not/ > > ... It also will counteract global warming! > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

"It is impossible to violate the laws of physics and common sense without government funding." Herr Mann .. Circa common era KALEB!   QUOTES PAGE! G Mann via Mercedes February 26, 2020 at 9:58 PM "It is impossible to violate the laws of physics and common sense

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

"It is impossible to violate the laws of physics and common sense without government funding." Herr Mann .. Circa common era On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:42 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Good thinking! Send your proposal to all the remaining candidates to > see

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Good thinking!  Send your proposal to all the remaining candidates to see which ones bite!  You can bet none of 'em has a clue about thermodynamics, so they are likely to go for it wholeheartedly! Some of the "pencil dust"  (quote from bahama tom) could blow our way to save more old MBs. Clay

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

But Jim, we could construct an almost perpetual energy machine. The excess heat from refrigeration gets dumped into a molten salt well, which powers transmission or something. Maybe it just pre-heats the solar tower stuff. There has got to be a way to make this all work. The Green New Rip

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

I just had an insight. Rare event The folks in Iceland use geothermal power and steam to heat their homes and cities. With global climate change, this super freezing rig would be a great way to pipe conditioned air into homes and business’ and better regulate temperatures in grow houses so

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

All it would take is a Summer’s Breeze. clay > On Feb 26, 2020, at 7:50 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes > wrote: > > >> cooling air to minus 321 Fahrenheit (minus 196 Celsius) and then >> powering turbines with it as it warms and expands > > Where does the energy come from to warm the

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 18:58:11 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: > If we’re talking mnemonics, here are some I learned for electrical > stuff: > ELI the ICE man - Inductance (L) - E is ahead of I, Capacitive (C) - I > is ahead of E I still use this one at times ... Craig

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

If we’re talking mnemonics, here are some I learned for electrical stuff: “Virgins Are Rare” - Ohm’s Law (V = A x R) The “A” is really “I”, but this was helpful. ELI the ICE man - Inductance (L) - E is ahead of I, Capacitive (C) - I is ahead of E -D > On Feb 26, 2020, at 6:48 PM, Jim

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

My other favorite whimsical mnemonic is Richardson's: > Big whirls have little whirls, > That feed on their velocity; > And little whirls have lesser whirls, > And so on to viscosity. a play on De Morgan's rhyme: > Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em, > And little fleas

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:33:50 -0800 Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: > Don't forget that supercooling air also heats something else. > This is just a heat pump system. All the heat you'd need later, > plus some, is 'stored' in the environment. (Minus whatever might > escape off the earth by

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

> Allan wrote: > > > cooling air to minus 321 Fahrenheit (minus 196 Celsius) and > > then powering turbines with it as it warms and expands > > Where does the energy come from to warm the cold/liquified air? The atmosphere (DOH!) It also will counteract global warming!

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

> Thats why its a storage device not a net generator. Well, really they're ALL just storage devices. Many politicians operate on the flawed principle that they are 'generating' tax revenue. Most of them are really only figuring out ways to raid the pockets of others, rather than actually

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

exactly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_equations The behavior of a Thermodynamic system is summarized in the laws of Thermodynamics , which concisely are: * Zeroth

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Curt Raymond writes: > Thats why its a storage device not a net generator. I mean, to be technically correct, cold is the absence of energy. The energy "storage" is the ambient environment outside of the cold air, which seems like very diffuse storage for something like utility-scale electrical

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Thats why its a storage device not a net generator. I wondered that at first too. ;) -Curt On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 11:51:42 AM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: > cooling air to minus 321 Fahrenheit (minus 196 Celsius) and then > powering turbines with it as it warms and

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Don't forget that supercooling air also heats something else. This is just a heat pump system. All the heat you'd need later, plus some, is 'stored' in the environment. (Minus whatever might escape off the earth by radiation.) Regarding thermodynamics, which IS what is being talked about: The

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

I'm no physicist, but it seems like a very indirect way to tap any of those sources. The idea seems to be: first, use (1), (2), or (3) to chill air to cryogenic temperatures. Then, use more of (1), (2), or (3) to warm it back up and then convert the expansion of the air to mechanical energy and

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Promoting great alarm when it causes the "next ice age" But how does it get supercooled without major energy input? Meade Dillon via Mercedes February 26, 2020 at 11:06 AM Oops, mis-read your question. I think the warming happens when the liquefied air is exposed

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

> Where does the energy come from to warm the cold/liquified air? There are only three possible answers, ultimately: 1) The sun (solar, wind, hydro, fuels); 2) _A_ sun (nuclear fission, geothermal); 3) Orbital mechanics (tidal). -- Jim ___

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

On 26/02/2020 11:06 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Oops, mis-read your question. I think the warming happens when the liquefied air is exposed to ambient temperatures, no energy input required. - Max Hey, when that happens, the earth will cool off and we can go back to

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Oops, mis-read your question. I think the warming happens when the liquefied air is exposed to ambient temperatures, no energy input required. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:04 PM Meade Dillon wrote: > Unicorn farts? No, sorry, it comes from solar and wind power.

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Unicorn farts? No, sorry, it comes from solar and wind power. This is to store excess energy which has lumpy production flow instead of smooth and steady like nukes or fossil fuels. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:51 AM Allan Streib via Mercedes <

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

> cooling air to minus 321 Fahrenheit (minus 196 Celsius) and then > powering turbines with it as it warms and expands Where does the energy come from to warm the cold/liquified air? Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

I would love to see the thermodynamic analysis of this --FT On 2/26/20 11:38 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Although intriguing, it sounds enormously inefficient. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:31 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Re: [MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

Although intriguing, it sounds enormously inefficient. - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:31 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > ELECTRICITYJapanese machinery giant bets on cold air to store > powerPublished: > Wednesday, February 26, 2020

[MBZ] OT: Sumitomo bets on cold air to store power

ELECTRICITYJapanese machinery giant bets on cold air to store powerPublished: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 Sumitomo Heavy Industries Ltd. sees a future in super-cold air. The Tokyo-based industrial machinery giant invested $46 million in Highview Power, which stores electricity by cooling air