Arts, civics, language and literature, mathematics, music, physical
exercise, science, and other disciplines are essential for the
Minneapolis School curriculum. To the best of my knowledge, all the
students in the school district are Cro-Magnon as a species. Although
named for the European br
> The most important part of this discussion is that, even in broke times,
> we cheat ourselves, the world, and the species when we cheat the children.
> WizardMarks, Central
Words well spoken!! This goes for everything we have discussed on this form.
dorie gallagher
nokomis
REMINDERS:
1.
I've made my living as a visual artist working first as an television
commercial animator, director and designer and then including commercial
illustration into my repertoire. It's a nice way to make a living, and
my inclination is to support teaching arts in public schools. I think
the arts are
WizardMarks wrote:
> This is my point of disagreement. The 3 Rs, yes, and the arts.
> Kindergartners and pre-kindergartners don't get much science,
> history, or civics.
This is part of the problem that I originally raised:
kindergartners and pre-kindergartners don't get much science.
There a
I will ditto what WizardMarks implies. Children absorb language, math
and reading (i.e. the basic alphabet) skills in the blink of an eye just
by singing songs. Music, movement and visual ques are perfect for
facilitating learning the 3Rs in ways that are very accessible to
children. When it co
Anderson & Turpin wrote:
The point I've been trying to make is that the three R's should come first,
before the arts, before science, before history and civics. ...
WM: This is my point of disagreement. The 3 Rs, yes, and the arts.
Kindergartners and pre-kindergartners don't get much science, his
Dan McGuire wrote:
This thread seems to be a pedagogy theory exercise right now. And
while I actually have quite a bit of training and experience regarding
both theory and practice, I think the list members and public in general
will be better served if the discussion would be about actual exp
Dorie Rae Gallagher wrote:
You TEACH art because art is a
career and it is as important as any other subject. Let us not be so dense
to say art is coming before reading, writing and arithmetic...this is
elementary.. except to our current leadership.
Mark Anderson replies:
Okay, maybe we agree her
f the numbers of people who can't
pass the basic tests, where do we want
to put our priorities?
Ray Marshall
Minnehaha
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:42:06 -0500
From: "Steve Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Arts in the Mpls schools
I'm sorry, Mark, but if its nec
This thread seems to be a pedagogy theory exercise right now. And
while I actually have quite a bit of training and experience regarding
both theory and practice, I think the list members and public in general
will be better served if the discussion would be about actual experience
and specif
While again I ask posters to consider the vital School Board races at stake
at the moment, I thought list members might be interested in the results of
my MPS 2nd-grade son's teacher conference this a.m.:
It was 100 percent devoted to reading and math. And - for you test-o-philes
out there - many
Steve M Nelson wrote:
Art is all around is in most daily activities. To pretend that we can
separate it from math and reading and have a complete education or that
including it somehow detracts from math and literacy sounds like someone
with an agenda to cut programs for some reason other than no
>
>
> Mark Anderson writes
> We seem to be mostly going around in circles. I've been trying to find
out
> from the "arts in education" advocates why it is so important to teach the
> arts. The discussion is not about banning the arts in Minneapolis, or
even
> in the schools. The discussion is a
Steve M Nelson wrote:
> Art is all around is in most daily activities. To pretend that we can
> separate it from math and reading and have a complete education or that
> including it somehow detracts from math and literacy sounds like someone
> with an agenda to cut programs for some reason other
>
> Art is all around is in most daily activities. To pretend that we can
> separate it from math and reading and have a complete education or that
> including it somehow detracts from math and literacy sounds like someone
> with an agenda to cut programs for some reason other than not raising th
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I believe that there are a couple of false assumptions here. First,
math and science training is important regardless of whether students
use it creatively. The majority of Americans are distinctly uncreative.
For most jobs getting the correct answer IS the most important
When people spend their own money, they can easily distinguish between WANTS
and NEEDS.
When spending other people's money, everything is a NEED. Ask any teenager.
Recommended reading: "Getting Rich in America" by Dwight R. Lee and Richard
B. McKenzie
Mark V. Anderson: ".I think the number
PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Mpls] Arts in the Mpls schools
> Shawn Marie wrote:
> I've been quiet for a long while,. but I can't watch this anymore. As a
> mother of a seven-year-old in a public school I will tell anyone and
s exactly what we'll have.
- Original Message -
From: "Anderson & Turpin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'mpls forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Mpls] Arts in the Mpls schools
> Shawn Marie wr
Shawn Marie wrote:
I've been quiet for a long while,. but I can't watch this anymore. As a
mother of a seven-year-old in a public school I will tell anyone and
everyone that ALL of it matters. Math, reading, the arts - ALL of it is
necessary. It is ridiculous that there would even be such a deba
On Sep 28, 2004, at 9:54 AM, Michael Atherton wrote:
No, I don't think that we're all on the same side. This
discussion began with my suggestion that the MPS overemphasize
the Arts compared to the emphasis given to Math and Science.
If true, this bias would have significant impact on students
who
Shawn Marie Christenson wrote:
> I've been quiet for a long while,. but I can't watch this
> anymore. As a mother of a seven-year-old in a public school
> I will tell anyone and everyone that ALL of it matters.
> Math, reading, the arts - ALL of it is necessary. It is
> ridiculous that ther
Robert Halfhill Loring Park
wrote
David, you really didn't get to the point you were trying to reply to.
You argued that arts education had made you what you are today whereas the
people you were trying to answer have argued that arts education does
nothing to contribute to mastering the am
David, you really didn't get to the point you were trying to reply to. You argued
that arts education had made you what you are today whereas the people you were trying
to answer have argued that arts education does nothing to contribute to mastering the
amount of reading, writing and mathe
pin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "mpls forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Arts in the Mpls schools
- Original Message -
From: Anderson & Turpin
Mark Anderson again:
David, I am talking about getting
- Original Message -
From: Anderson & Turpin
Mark Anderson again:
David, I am talking about getting kids trained in the basic adult skills of
reading and math, which I think every grown-up person needs to know to take
care of themselves. It's a different issue whether the ar
Anderson & Turpin wrote:
David, I am talking about getting kids trained in the basic adult skills of
reading and math, which I think every grown-up person needs to know to take
care of themselves. It's a different issue whether the arts help
professionals or scientists in their careers. I am skep
I previously wrote:
> arts magnet schools). And I also believe that many arts activities (for
> example, drawing pictures, and listening and playing music by ear), bring
no
> benefit whatsoever in helping kids to add or read.
David Greene responded:
I've kept out of this until now but I have to _
Michael Atherton wrote:
And then what? I don't know anyone who makes a living on color
theory alone. I don't understand how you can assume that there
are enough jobs so that a large portion of the population can make
a living in the Arts. When I worked in advertising, most everyone
did fine arts
On 9/23/04 10:28 AM, "Anderson & Turpin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark Anderson replies:
> Okay, so your argument is that the schools teach students to create art
> instead of just to consume it? Fair enough, that's mostly true. But I
> still find it hard to believe that people would stop c
One of the reasons that I am taking the time to participate
in this dialog is that Ms. Gallagher's attitudes and arguments
are ubiquitous in education and often not commonly shared by
the general public (although they seem to be in Minneapolis).
My perspectives are held by only a minuscule minorit
Hello List,
Higher education is grouped into colleges. There is a reason why the Arts & Sciences
are grouped together. They compliment one another.
I am a highly creative individual. When I was in 7th grade at Bryant Jr. High, I was
fortunate to have an advisor named Miss Seaberg. I was s
Dorie Rae Gallagher writes:
If they can't learn science perhaps they can learn color theory.
Michael Atherton wrote:
>And then what? I don't know anyone who makes a living on color
>theory alone. I don't understand how you can assume that there
>are enough jobs so that a large portion of the popu
Dorie Rae Gallagher writes:
> Some children will never be literate..they can not learn. But
> many of those children /adults can product artwork that is
> extordinary.
>
> (Sister Kenny Art Show for Artists with Disabilities) Give
> people the tools to be happy. Be it math problems, science,
>
Mark wrote:
> necessity of learning to read and compute? Do you think an adult who has
> had concentrated exposure to the arts his entire childhood, but can't read
> or compute, will be as happy as someone with no formal arts education but
> can read and add/subtract? Dire poverty doesn't soun
Mark Snyder wrote:
There is a huge difference between turning on the radio and learning to sing
or dance or play an instrument.
There is a huge difference between watching TV and writing a story or
performing a play or even just reading a passage out loud, whether it be a
play or a poem or whateve
Mark states excellent points - wish I wrote them myself. I will add:
Mark Snyder wrote:
There is a huge difference between going to a museum or gallery and looking
at paintings or sculptures and actually learning to paint or sculpt.
Liz: you could also add here, critique and analysis of artwork (
Anderson & Turpin wrote:
Argument #2 is still being argued here on the List. I don't think it is a
valid argument. It's not like the arts will disappear if they are no longer
taught in the schools.
WM: It's the interplay of the arts and other subjects which help kids
integrate their subject matt
On 9/21/04 7:37 PM, "Anderson & Turpin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's not like the arts will disappear if they are no longer
> taught in the schools. It is very easy to get access to the arts today --
> turn on the radio to get some music, or the TV to get some drama. These
> examples may no
I think I was in this discussion somewhere with
information about Whittier Community School for the
Arts. An important piece of information here is that
much of the cost for the fabulous art and music
partnerships Whittier has with the Children's Theater,
Jungle Theater, Intermedia Arts, Mpls. Art
Mark Anderson writes:
> There seem to be two arguments in favor of the arts:
> 1) Students actually do better in reading and math when they take
> art as well as academic subjects, than when they take only academic
> subjects.
> 2) Art is simply necessary for a well-rounded life, so we
Robert Halfhill wrote:
Some people in this discussion of what is most important -- math,
science, literacy vs the arts have been arguing as if it a question of all
of one and none of the other. Some people have been arguing as if it is a
matter of whether somone would be better off with a lot
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