Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Henk Uijterwaal
On 10/02/2011 06:15, Ricky Beam wrote: On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:42:14 -0500, Nathan Eisenberg nat...@atlasnetworks.us wrote: What do you mean, lit up? You mean they're not in the routing tables that you get from your carriers? I'd argue that's no indication of whether they're in use or not.

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jens Link
George Bonser gbon...@seven.com writes: In other words, the broadband provider provides a single global IP to the always up CPE. That CPE does DHCP to user stations and hands out 1918 addresses and NATs them to the single global IP. Ah there is the misunderstanding. Same her in good old

Re: Is your ASN advertising v6 prefixes?

2011-02-10 Thread Pierre-Yves Maunier
2011/2/10 Jack Bates jba...@brightok.net On 2/9/2011 8:21 PM, Fred Richards wrote: Mine is. Well? http://www.cidr-report.org/cgi-bin/as-report?as=8025view=2.0v=6 Love that tool! Jack Love that one : http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/all/ -- Pierre-Yves Maunier

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jens Link
Mark Andrews ma...@isc.org writes: DS-Lite over 6rd using RFC 1918 / multi-use ISP assigned block (I'd love to be able to say class E here) provides a single NAT translation for IPv4 and public IPv6. Okay, it's 10:15 in the morning and I really want a drink know. ;-) Jens --

Re: IPv6 - a noobs prespective

2011-02-10 Thread Roland Perry
In article 7000830.352.1297276636748.javamail.fra...@franck-martins-macbook-pro.loc al, Franck Martin fra...@genius.com writes You missed the IPv6 hour at Nanog42: http://www.civil-tongue.net/grandx/wiki/nanog42 https://wiki.tools.isoc.org/IETF71_IPv4_Outage May be another one is needed?

Re: Strange L2 failure

2011-02-10 Thread Jens Link
Jack Bates jba...@brightok.net writes: Hi, a little late, but just catching up the list. Has anyone seen issues with IOS where certain MACs fail? 54:52:00 (kvm) fails out an old 10mbit port on a 7206 running 12.2 SRE. I've never seen anything like this. DHCP worked, ARP worked, and arp

10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Roberts, Brent
Looking for feedback/recommendations on higher density Switch’s in the 10GBASE-T arena. Preferably TOR switches if possible. Minimum 16 ports usable for Rack Server connectivity + Uplinks to Collapsed Twin Distro/Core setup. Found the Arista 7X00 family to have the density I am looking for but

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jens Link
Jens Link li...@quux.de writes: Okay, it's 10:15 in the morning and I really want a drink know. ;-) s/know/now/ I think I'll need more coffee. Jens -- - | Foelderichstr. 40 | 13595 Berlin, Germany|

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread TR Shaw
On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Frank Bulk wrote: I'm not sure what you mean -- once the ISP identifies CPE that works on their network, couldn't early adopters who are interested in the technology be pointed to a short list? Frank -Original Message- From: Cutler James R

Re: Too bigs are sacred, was: Re: IPv6 addressing for core network

2011-02-10 Thread Iljitsch van Beijnum
On 10 feb 2011, at 0:26, David Freedman wrote: Unless every packet you emit is ≤ the minimum MTU (1280), then, you need to be able to receive TOOBIG messages. Can you think of a packet type I will emit from my publically numbered backbone interface which may solicit a TOOBIG that I'll have

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Iljitsch van Beijnum
On 10 feb 2011, at 1:52, Jeff McAdams wrote: I've always worked in small to middle sized shops, and I have always found that I've been able to yell and scream about IPv6 (and other features) loud enough, and long enough that I get heard by someone in a decision making position for product

Re: Too bigs are sacred, was: Re: IPv6 addressing for core network

2011-02-10 Thread David Freedman
Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: On 10 feb 2011, at 0:26, David Freedman wrote: Unless every packet you emit is ≤ the minimum MTU (1280), then, you need to be able to receive TOOBIG messages. Can you think of a packet type I will emit from my publically numbered backbone interface which may

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread TR Shaw
On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:26 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: The problem is conversations like this: ATT Customer Service: ATT uVerse, how can I help you? Customer: Yes, I have uVerse service and I'd like to get IPv6. ATT Customer Service: I pea vee what? Is this a prank call? Owen The ATT

Re: 10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Tom Hill
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 09:33 +, Roberts, Brent wrote: Looking for feedback/recommendations on higher density Switch’s in the 10GBASE-T arena. Preferably TOR switches if possible. Minimum 16 ports usable for Rack Server connectivity + Uplinks to Collapsed Twin Distro/Core setup. Found the

Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Cutler James R
On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:15 AM, Ricky Beam wrote: On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:42:14 -0500, Nathan Eisenberg nat...@atlasnetworks.us wrote: What do you mean, lit up? You mean they're not in the routing tables that you get from your carriers? I'd argue that's no indication of whether they're in

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 1:49 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: Yeah, this is a sure path to having all of them say exactly that in unison. Do you want to be right? Or would you prefer to be effective? I think he wants to know which bogons will continue to be safe to use. :P Jack

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Benson Schliesser
On Feb 9, 2011, at 6:01 PM, Jack Bates wrote: On 2/9/2011 5:56 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: Or 6rd and go native on their permanent prefix as the forklift upgrade schedule allows. Oh well, it's better than nothing or Crummier Grade NAT. ds-lite tends to be friendlier LSN from various

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Eric Brunner-Williams
On 2/9/11 10:32 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: I disagree... I think that offering alternate name space views to the existing {b,m}illions of v4 addressed spindles requires IPv6 reachability as well since those will also be adding IPv6

Re: 10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Chuck Anderson
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:33:50AM +, Roberts, Brent wrote: Looking for feedback/recommendations on higher density Switch’s in the 10GBASE-T arena. Preferably TOR switches if possible. Minimum 16 ports usable for Rack Server connectivity + Uplinks to Collapsed Twin Distro/Core setup.

Re: 10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Bill Blackford
Juniper EX4500 has 40 fixed SFP/SFP+ ports plus 2 uplink modules that can contain 4 SFP/SFP+ ports each for a total of 48 10GBASE-X ports. Need to buy SFP+ modules or use direct-attach SFP+ cables though. And is now shipping with a model that can stack and/or join a EX4200 VC stack. It's

Re: Ipv6 addressing for Core network

2011-02-10 Thread Vikas Sharma
HI Geroge, Thanks for the input. Appreciate some more info wrt TCAM usuage if possible. Another thought, I agree ip schema is individual preference, but I want to know the best practise (vague term best practice). Personally even I am in favor of /64 p-t-p. Regards, Vikas On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Paul Vixie
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 01:13:49 -0600 From: Jimmy Hess mysi...@gmail.com With them not requiring a /8 in the first place (after CIDR); one begins to wonder how much of their /8 allocations they actually touched in any meaningful way. i expect that after final depletion there will be some

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread TR Shaw
On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Cameron Byrne wrote: T-mobile USA has a nationwide ipv6 beta. You can google it. Regarding iphone, its more an iPhone issue than anything else Nope its ATT. My iPhone works fine on IPv6. I connect wifi at home and can go anywhere but on on ATT wireless. Tom

Re: Too bigs are sacred, was: Re: IPv6 addressing for core network

2011-02-10 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:15:52 GMT, David Freedman said: these people are doing this by design, I think thats the point I'm trying to get across, if you will never need to process TOOBIG in your design, there is no need to accept it. And how many networks break PMTUD because their design says

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 2/10/11 7:42 AM, TR Shaw wrote: On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Cameron Byrne wrote: T-mobile USA has a nationwide ipv6 beta. You can google it. Regarding iphone, its more an iPhone issue than anything else Nope its ATT. My iPhone works fine on IPv6. I connect wifi at home and can go

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Majdi S. Abbas
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 01:13:49AM -0600, Jimmy Hess wrote: Perhaps the RIRs should personally and directly ask each /8 legacy holder to provide account of their utilization (which portions of the allocation is used, how many hosts), and ASK for each unused /22 [or shorter] to be

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 8:36 AM, Benson Schliesser wrote: DS-lite is still CGN. It is still LSN, but it is not NAT444, and the failure rate reduces because of that. Also, DS-Lite guarantees that you have IPv6 connectivity. NAT444 makes no such assertion. Jack

Re: Failure modes: NAT vs SPI

2011-02-10 Thread Lamar Owen
On Monday, February 07, 2011 04:33:23 am Owen DeLong wrote: 1.Scanning even an entire /64 at 1,000 pps will take 18,446,744,073,709,551 seconds which is 213,503,982,334 days or 584,542,000 years. I would posit that since most networks cannot absorb a 1,000 pps attack even

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Benson Schliesser
On Feb 10, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Jack Bates wrote: On 2/10/2011 8:36 AM, Benson Schliesser wrote: DS-lite is still CGN. It is still LSN, but it is not NAT444, and the failure rate reduces because of that. Also, DS-Lite guarantees that you have IPv6 connectivity. NAT444 makes no such

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 10:05 AM, Benson Schliesser wrote: DS-lite *uses* IPv6 connectivity, it doesn't provide it. That's like saying 6rd or 6to4 guarantees you have IPv4 connectivity. Who in their right mind would feed IPv6 to a CPE, deploy a CPE that supports DS-Lite, and NOT give out prefixes?

Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Matthew Kaufman
On 2/9/2011 9:15 PM, Ricky Beam wrote: On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:42:14 -0500, Nathan Eisenberg nat...@atlasnetworks.us wrote: What do you mean, lit up? You mean they're not in the routing tables that you get from your carriers? I'd argue that's no indication of whether they're in use or not.

Comcast BGP issue?

2011-02-10 Thread Wallace Keith
Not quite sure what the issue is, but I suspect Comcast announcements are not quite right? Trying to get from Verizon Business to a Comcast address in NH (on 75.15.64.0/18), and it's going through San Jose. Anyone else having similar issues or suggestions? Opened a ticket with Comcast, but they

RE: Comcast BGP issue?

2011-02-10 Thread Wallace Keith
Sorry, my typo. The Net is 75.150.64.0/18 -Original Message- From: Wallace Keith Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:20 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Comcast BGP issue? Not quite sure what the issue is, but I suspect Comcast announcements are not quite right? Trying to get from

Self-referential whois queries

2011-02-10 Thread Rubens Kuhl
I'm noticing an increase in getting query rate exceeded at whois services that might be connected to a symptom described by ARIN at NANOG 48/ARIN XXV and ARIN XXVI where machines ask for the whois record of their own IP address. Are there any clues of what is causing this ? Rubens

Re: 10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Daniel Roesen
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:05:54AM -0500, Chuck Anderson wrote: Juniper EX4500 has 40 fixed SFP/SFP+ ports plus 2 uplink modules that can contain 4 SFP/SFP+ ports each for a total of 48 10GBASE-X ports. Be aware, that IGMP snooping breaks some(!) IPv6 multicast (e.g. DHCPv6). Affects whole

ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread ADWebb
Why does ARIN require detailed usage of IPv4 space when requesting IPv6 space? Seems completely irrelevant to me. -- Adam Webb EN ES Team desk: 816.737.9717 cell: 916.949.1345 --- The biggest secret of innovation is that anyone can do it.

Re: 10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Daniel Roesen
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 08:33:43PM +0100, Daniel Roesen wrote: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:05:54AM -0500, Chuck Anderson wrote: Juniper EX4500 has 40 fixed SFP/SFP+ ports plus 2 uplink modules that can contain 4 SFP/SFP+ ports each for a total of 48 10GBASE-X ports. Be aware, that IGMP

re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread Nick Olsen
We requested our initial allocation without any such questions. Is this your initial or additional? Nick Olsen Network Operations (855) FLSPEED x106 From: adw...@dstsystems.com Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:38 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: ARIN

Re: IPv6 - a noobs prespective

2011-02-10 Thread Daniel Roesen
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 03:43:35PM -0500, Jared Mauch wrote: Jack (hates all routers equally, doesn't matter who makes it) Welcome to the life of being a network operator. :) That's called carrier grade these days by all those vendors! :-) SCNR, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber:

re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread ADWebb
Initial. Documenting IPv4 usage is in the request template. -- Adam Webb From: Nick Olsen n...@flhsi.com To: nanog@nanog.org Date: 02/10/2011 01:45 PM Subject: re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests We requested our initial allocation without any such questions. Is this your initial or additional?

Re: 10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Karl Auer
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 20:33 +0100, Daniel Roesen wrote: Be aware, that IGMP snooping breaks some(!) IPv6 multicast (e.g. DHCPv6). Affects whole EX-series and current plan is to fix it sometime end of year (Q4 release). If you use IPv4 multicast and need IGMP snooping to prevent flooding and

box.net network engineer

2011-02-10 Thread Andrew Matthews
Can someone with the box.net engineering group email me off list. I have a peering issue with you guys at any2 in socal. Thanks, Drew

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Owen DeLong
On Feb 10, 2011, at 7:00 AM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: On 2/9/11 10:32 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: I disagree... I think that offering alternate name space views to the existing {b,m}illions of v4 addressed spindles requires IPv6

Re: Self-referential whois queries

2011-02-10 Thread John Kristoff
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:27:26 -0200 Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: I'm noticing an increase in getting query rate exceeded at whois services that might be connected to a symptom described by ARIN at NANOG 48/ARIN XXV and ARIN XXVI where machines ask for the whois record of their own IP

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread Jason Iannone
It also looks like there isn't a policy for orgs with multiple multihomed sites to get a /48 per site. Is there an exception policy somewhere? On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 12:50 PM, adw...@dstsystems.com wrote: Initial. Documenting IPv4 usage is in the request template. -- Adam Webb From:

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread Eric Clark
Don't remember about the v4 part, but 3 years ago they issued me a /48, specifically for my first site and indicated that a block was reserved for additional sites. I can probably dig that up. Sent from my iPad On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Jason Iannone jason.iann...@gmail.com wrote: It

Re: 10GBASE-T Switches

2011-02-10 Thread Daniel Roesen
Hi, On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 06:52:07AM +1100, Karl Auer wrote: Not disagreeing, I've never met this device, just curious about the problem and wondering if it is a generic class of problem. Is this device supposed to be IPv6-capable? We're using EX switches currently only in L2-only roles,

Re: Self-referential whois queries

2011-02-10 Thread Rubens Kuhl
I'm noticing an increase in getting query rate exceeded at whois services that might be connected to a symptom described by ARIN at NANOG 48/ARIN XXV and ARIN XXVI where machines ask for the whois record of their own IP address. Are there any clues of what is causing this ? Some spam bots

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread William Herrin
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 2:38 PM, adw...@dstsystems.com wrote: Why does ARIN require detailed usage of IPv4 space when requesting IPv6 space? Seems completely irrelevant to me. Hi Adam, I think it's a basic who are you and why are you speaking to us? question. If ARIN already knows you from

Re: Failure modes: NAT vs SPI

2011-02-10 Thread Owen DeLong
On Feb 10, 2011, at 7:53 AM, Lamar Owen wrote: On Monday, February 07, 2011 04:33:23 am Owen DeLong wrote: 1. Scanning even an entire /64 at 1,000 pps will take 18,446,744,073,709,551 seconds which is 213,503,982,334 days or 584,542,000 years. I would posit that since most

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Owen DeLong
On Feb 10, 2011, at 8:05 AM, Benson Schliesser wrote: On Feb 10, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Jack Bates wrote: On 2/10/2011 8:36 AM, Benson Schliesser wrote: DS-lite is still CGN. It is still LSN, but it is not NAT444, and the failure rate reduces because of that. Also, DS-Lite guarantees that

RE: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread R. Benjamin Kessler
From: William Herrin [mailto:b...@herrin.us] * Carrier NAT... I spend most of my days fighting with carriers to actually carry bits from point A to point B like they're paid to do. I'm sick and tired of them blaming CPE for circuit bounces and outages that are magically fixed without us

NAT444 rumors (was Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...)

2011-02-10 Thread Benson Schliesser
On Feb 10, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: In terms of CGN44 versus NAT444, I'd like to see evidence of something that breaks in NAT444 but not CGN44. People seem to have a gut expectation that this is the case, and I'm open to the possibility. But testing aimed at demonstrating

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread George Herbert
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Fred Richards fr...@geexology.org wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:47 PM, George Bonser gbon...@seven.com wrote: I have yet to see a broadband provider that configures a network so that individual nodes in the home network get global IPs. One huge reason to

BCP38 considerations in IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread Ryan Rawdon
Hello NANOGers - What considerations should be made with respect to implementing egress filtering based on source IPv6 addresses? Things like allowing traffic sourced from fe80::/10 in said filters for on-link communication (for the interface that the filter is applied to). Is there anything

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Ken A
On 2/10/2011 3:19 PM, George Herbert wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Fred Richardsfr...@geexology.org wrote: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:47 PM, George Bonsergbon...@seven.com wrote: I have yet to see a broadband provider that configures a network so that individual nodes in the home

Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Ricky Beam
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 01:35:42 -0500, Matthew Moyle-Croft m...@internode.com.au wrote: Because it is a waste of time and money. That's an assertion I've heard, but has anyone quantified it? ... Not that I've ever seen. All the bitching I've seen here and elsewhere boils down to it being

Re: BCP38 considerations in IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread Mark Andrews
In message acd7c570039e58b67bbf64e467f4b12b@192.168.152.50, Ryan Rawdon writes : Hello NANOGers - What considerations should be made with respect to implementing egress filtering based on source IPv6 addresses? Things like allowing traffic sourced from fe80::/10 in said filters for

Re: BCP38 considerations in IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread Iljitsch van Beijnum
On 10 feb 2011, at 22:34, Ryan Rawdon wrote: What considerations should be made with respect to implementing egress filtering based on source IPv6 addresses? Things like allowing traffic sourced from fe80::/10 in said filters for on-link communication (for the interface that the filter is

Re: BCP38 considerations in IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread William F. Maton Sotomayor
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011, Ryan Rawdon wrote: What considerations should be made with respect to implementing egress filtering based on source IPv6 addresses? Things like allowing traffic sourced from fe80::/10 in said filters for on-link communication (for the interface that the filter is applied

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread Owen DeLong
Some policies allow you to use your IPv4 usage as justification of your need for IPv6. If you are applying under one of those policies, you need to fill in that information. If you are applying under a different qualification criteria, I believe you can leave that section blank. Owen On Feb 10,

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread Owen DeLong
From the NRPM: 6.11. IPv6 Multiple Discrete Networks Organizations with multiple discrete IPv6 networks desiring to request new or additional address space under a single Organization ID must meet the following criteria: The organization shall be a single entity and not a consortium of

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread ADWebb
But how is it relevant? Ever? It's like a bank asking you to justify your need for a loan by asking you how many apples you can pick in an hour. -- Adam Webb From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com To: adw...@dstsystems.com Cc: nanog@nanog.org Date: 02/10/2011 04:10 PM Subject: Re: ARIN and IPv6

Re: Is your ASN advertising v6 prefixes?

2011-02-10 Thread Matthew Petach
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Jack Bates jba...@brightok.net wrote: On 2/10/2011 12:42 AM, Scott Weeks wrote: Prefixes Originated (v6): 4 Why 4? Click on the v6 prefixes tab and look at them. There's a US, Taiwan and Europe /32's, and then one additional /48 out of the US /32. Jack

RE: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread Michael K. Smith - Adhost
Hello Adam: You may want to post this on the ARIN PPML list since the policy folks are all there. They will be able to point your directly to the portion of the NPRM that applies. In addition, this would be the appropriate list to submit policy changes if you don't like the way things are

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread William Herrin
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 5:23 PM, adw...@dstsystems.com wrote: But how is it relevant? Ever? It's like a bank asking you to justify your need for a loan by asking you how many apples you can pick in an hour. You're asking for a loan to plant an orchard. Oranges this time, but you've only ever

Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread David Conrad
On Feb 10, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Ricky Beam wrote: Had they started the process a deacde ago instead of complaining that it's too much work, not worth it, etc., etc., then some of it might have been reclaimed by now. How about 15 years ago: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1917 Regards, -drc

ANNOUNCE: NANOG List and Website Downtime

2011-02-10 Thread Michael K. Smith - Adhost
Hello All: The NANOG website and NANOG mailing list will be unavailable during the times listed below. There is an issue with the present location within the University of Michigan environment that requires a physical move of the NANOG servers to a discrete location. We apologize for the

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 4d53fd00.40...@ispalliance.net, Scott Helms writes: On 2/9/2011 7:22 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: And some of their customers have been asking for IPv6 all along. I started asking my ISP at home in 2003. I suspect if all the ISPs here were honest they would say that they have

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Mark Andrews
I'd argue that all TLD registries should be reachable over IPv6 by now and all TLD should be reachable over IPv6 by now. It's not that hard nor is it any more expensive. It just requires will to turn it on. Requiring that new TLDs and the registry infrastucture be reachable over IPv6 from day

Re: BCP38 considerations in IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread Mohacsi Janos
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011, Ryan Rawdon wrote: Hello NANOGers - What considerations should be made with respect to implementing egress filtering based on source IPv6 addresses? Things like allowing traffic sourced from fe80::/10 in said filters for on-link communication (for the interface that the

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Daniel Roesen
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:07:26AM +1100, Mark Andrews wrote: Double NAT prevents most of the work arounds working. And quite important for residential ISPs of some size: have fun teaching your call centers diagnosing double-NAT failure modes. NAT444 is a hell I don't want to visit really.

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Daniel Roesen
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 06:01:46PM -0600, Jack Bates wrote: ds-lite tends to be friendlier LSN from various tests, Any pointers to study reports etc. heartly welcome. Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: d...@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

Re: ARIN and IPv6 Requests

2011-02-10 Thread Tom Pipes
Here's the template we just completed last week, and we received our /32 minimum allocation within a couple of days. No justification for initial allocation, only subsequent v6 allocations. https://www.arin.net/resources/templates/v6-isp.txt

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jeroen van Aart
Jens Link wrote: I never thought it was that bad. In some 3G/wireless networks in Germany the providers use NAT and transparent HTTP-proxy. But this is only wireless. I'm not aware of any DSL or Cable provider NATing their customers. I guess in the early days of DSL and Cable internet this

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Daniel Roesen
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 04:42:01PM -0800, Owen DeLong wrote: Actually Comcast is willing to give out more than a /64 to a home, they're waiting for the CPE to catch up. Catch up to what? Are there dualstack CPE routers out there only able to handle /64 prefix delegation? I expect that they

Re: My upstream ISP does not support IPv6

2011-02-10 Thread david raistrick
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011, david raistrick wrote: Amazon AWS - No. But I'm asking again, that's a few months old. To follow up on this: We are investigating IP v6 but, unfortunately, have no plans that are available for sharing at present -- david raistrick

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread John Curran
On Feb 10, 2011, at 3:13 AM, Jimmy Hess wrote: Perhaps the RIRs should personally and directly ask each /8 legacy holder to provide account of their utilization (which portions of the allocation is used, how many hosts), and ASK for each unused /22 [or shorter] to be returned.

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jens Link
Daniel Roesen d...@cluenet.de writes: And quite important for residential ISPs of some size: have fun teaching your call centers diagnosing double-NAT failure modes. NAT444 is a hell I don't want to visit really. No it's great! It's secure! It's easy to implement! It's the only way to do it

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 6:07 PM, John Curran wrote: As I did not explain in advance to each to the parties that their responses would be public, it would not be proper to publicly post the information. Discussions with individual resource holders is treated as confidential information. Since you have

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 8:10 PM, Jack Bates wrote: As a side effect, it also kills any need of any proposals in various institutions to reserve virgin space for utilization of LSN and such. It might not be too far fetched that they might even endorse us reusing their addressing with permission for

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread John Curran
On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Jack Bates wrote: Since you have gone through the process before. It would be nice (especially concerning the DoD networks) if you could ask if they plan to keep them (not monetize) and if you could make such a statement publicly. I mention this, as DoD is

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 8:15 PM, John Curran wrote: I'm not certain that you could rely on any organizations statements made today to provide any assurance that circumstances would not change in the future and result in the address space being returned to ARIN or transferred per current policy. An

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread John Curran
On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Jack Bates wrote: On 2/10/2011 8:15 PM, John Curran wrote: I'm not certain that you could rely on any organizations statements made today to provide any assurance that circumstances would not change in the future and result in the address space being returned

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 8:44 PM, John Curran wrote: If you'd like to reserve a large block for purposes of LSN without any concern of future address conflict, it would be best to actually reserve it via community-developed policy. When there are X /8 networks reserved by the USG, it seems extremely

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jared Mauch
On Feb 10, 2011, at 9:44 PM, John Curran wrote: On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Jack Bates wrote: On 2/10/2011 8:15 PM, John Curran wrote: I'm not certain that you could rely on any organizations statements made today to provide any assurance that circumstances would not change in the

Semi-Annual 'System Status Page' solicitation

2011-02-10 Thread Jay Ashworth
If you work for a backbone, content, access, or service provider, and you know that your company has a publicly accessible System/Service/Network Status Page available on the web, we'd love it if you'd add it to the Outages Dashboard, at http://wiki.outages.org/index.php/Dashboard If you have

Re: box.net network engineer

2011-02-10 Thread christian koch
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Andrew Matthews exstat...@gmail.comwrote: Can someone with the box.net engineering group email me off list. I have a peering issue with you guys at any2 in socal. One would think, if you are interconnecting with another network you should have some contact

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jared Mauch
On Feb 10, 2011, at 9:54 PM, Jack Bates wrote: On 2/10/2011 8:44 PM, John Curran wrote: If you'd like to reserve a large block for purposes of LSN without any concern of future address conflict, it would be best to actually reserve it via community-developed policy. When there are X

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread John Curran
On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:54 PM, Jack Bates wrote: When there are X /8 networks reserved by the USG, it seems extremely wasteful to reserve from what little space we have a large block dedicated to LSN when the USG can give assurances that 1) We won't route this, so use it 2) We won't be

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 9:11 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: I was explaining to my wife today how it felt like the nanog list went to 3x the typical mail volume recently with all the IPv6 stuff this month. Why the pro-IPv6 crowd was happy, the anti-IPv6 crowd is groaning (including those that truly despise the

Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Ricky Beam
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:43:50 -0500, Matthew Kaufman matt...@matthew.at wrote: There is no one universal global routing table. They probably appear in someone's routing table, somewhere... just not yours. Using public address space for private networking is a gross misuse of the resource.

Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jack Bates
On 2/10/2011 9:46 PM, Ricky Beam wrote: On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:43:50 -0500, Matthew Kaufman matt...@matthew.at wrote: There is no one universal global routing table. They probably appear in someone's routing table, somewhere... just not yours. Using public address space for private networking

Cruzio peering

2011-02-10 Thread Jeroen van Aart
A Cruzio employee kindly provided me with the following information regarding their peering and connectivity. I pasted it below (with permission) because I thought it might be of use to others: Cruzio maintains a backbone of wireless points of presence (POP) on various mountain tops

Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread Jeroen van Aart
On 02/09/2011 03:47 PM, George Bonser wrote: I have yet to see a broadband provider that configures a network so that individual nodes in the home network get global IPs. The big providers probably categorise a static IP in their enterprise/business offerings. But both my provider here

RE: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread George Bonser
As for this not fixing the problem, IPv4 is going to be a problem for MANY years to come. IPv6 deployment is glacially slow. IPv4 being out of space is getting news attention now, but will fade from the spotlight shortly I don't know about that. Yes, v4 will be around for a long time but

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Robert Bonomi
From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi@nanog.org Thu Feb 10 20:35:01 2011 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 20:31:32 -0600 From: Jack Bates jba...@brightok.net To: John Curran jcur...@arin.net Subject: Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers Cc: NANOG na...@merit.edu On 2/10/2011

Re: IPv6 mistakes, was: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...

2011-02-10 Thread David Conrad
On Feb 10, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Ricky Beam wrote: On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:43:50 -0500, Matthew Kaufman matt...@matthew.at wrote: There is no one universal global routing table. They probably appear in someone's routing table, somewhere... just not yours. Using public address space for private

Re: Leasing of space via non-connectivity providers

2011-02-10 Thread Mark Andrews
In message 78697910-f7a6-4d53-ad93-377fce660...@arin.net, John Curran writes: On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Jack Bates wrote: On 2/10/2011 8:15 PM, John Curran wrote: I'm not certain that you could rely on any organizations statements made= today to provide any assurance that

Re: Failure modes: NAT vs SPI

2011-02-10 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 2/10/11 7:53 AM, Lamar Owen wrote: On Monday, February 07, 2011 04:33:23 am Owen DeLong wrote: 1. Scanning even an entire /64 at 1,000 pps will take 18,446,744,073,709,551 seconds which is 213,503,982,334 days or 584,542,000 years. I would posit that since most networks

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