Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public

As now known from Crypto AG revelations spy agencies track comprehensively but do not disclose that information, no matter the horrors observed, to protect means and methods of deception. That callous mercilessness is not new, the same concealment from the public has been an ancient practi

Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

Here in Austria, and in many other places as well, restrictions on personal mobility are quite severe. At the moment, we are told to stay at home, with exceptions only for a) going to work (where remote work is not possible), b) shopping for necessities (food, medicines, cigarettes, mobile phones

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

On 18/03/2020 09:20, Felix Stalder wrote: > Is it likely that we manage to enact these? No. But simply calling for > the protection of personal privacy, or accepting the general state of > emergency, will be even worse. Perhaps attempt to (re)generate trust, collective intelligence and solidar

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

On 2020-03-18 10:38, mp wrote: > On 18/03/2020 09:20, Felix Stalder wrote: > >> Is it likely that we manage to enact these? No. But simply calling >> for the protection of personal privacy, or accepting the general >> state of emergency, will be even worse. > > Perhaps attempt to (re)generate tr

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

This is an interesting discussion … I’d like to provide a link to a comment comparing the situation in Italy and South Korea which alludes to the possibility that in fact meticulous tracking of infected individuals from the very start of the outbreak *is* an effective way to contain the s

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 10:20:02AM +0100, Felix Stalder wrote: > Is it likely that we manage to enact these? No. But simply calling for > the protection of personal privacy, or accepting the general state of > emergency, will be even worse. ???If the ends don't justify the means, what does --

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

actual behavioural changes with COvid are also pure gold for them, because they give very good datas for further business plans in the Health domain. Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts ? I would say: this period is a very good moment to switch off your smartphone and

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Hey Brian, folks, the question is well put - thanks for this. One aspect to add is that most of these data are already available to the GAFAM complex, and (more or less) voluntarily delivered to them by smartphone users all the time; so one may want to ask just _how_ making them available to

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Dear all, Continuing from Brian: > If anyone is looking for a core problem in philosophy or political science > to work on over the next few months, maybe this is it. I reckon the > questions above are not exclusive alternatives. Instead they begin to mark > out the contested/consensual space in

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 10:20:02AM +0100, Felix Stalder wrote: > A1, the largest mobile phone carrier, is providing data to public > authorities in an effort to monitor these restrictions (contact > tracing might come later). This is quite unprecedented and most > people who care about data pri

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

The term 'public health' has never quite gone away, even when privatised medicine pretended that private health could be purchased. The Spanish flu of 1919 is often cited; more apposite perhaps were the great cholera epidemics of the latrer 19th century. The proximity of the underclass to the

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Dear Sean, folks, thanks for the useful historical references. I've already gone on record here as being against speculations on who should die in what way. I do ask myself, though, about the role of capital, rent, and interest, in the current crisis. There will be people, here and elsewhere,

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

On 20.03.20 10:32, Andreas Broeckmann wrote: > But: if a major economic problem at the moment is that people have > to pay their rent, or service the credits and mortgages they took > out, why does the State, under these severe circumstances, currently > make such an effort to help people pay t

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Hey Felix, thanks for describing the cascade... Since you do not address the question, even though you quote it, I presume the implicit answer you offer is that under the current regime "suspending these obligations" is not an option, or unthinkable? (or taboo?) How is that to be understood...?

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

__ From: Andreas Broeckmann Sent: Friday, 20 March 2020 8:32 PM To: Sean Cubitt ; nettime-l@mail.kein.org Subject: Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health Dear Sean, folks, thanks for the useful historical references. I've already gone on record here as

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Hi everybody, following up on the nettime discussions about mobile phone data, contact tracing and the political implications of the current situation I did an Interview with Felix for my Podcast. We recorded it on Thursday and it was published today. It's in German though, but since it kind of

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Hello Andreas, Great questions! I think it's interesting to see the reaction of the UK Regime (for those of you who aren't clear, Johnson is a known deceptionist and right-wing Trumpalike). It seems that the challenge for conservatives is simply to maintain society's current social hierarchies.

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

James Wallbank writes: > And, shockingly, the value of a lawyer who is not working is, > apparently, greater than the value of a waste disposal worker who is > working! Necessary to point out that, at least as of now, lawyers, especially junior ones taking legal aid cases, are being required to

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

n From: Andreas Broeckmann Sent: Friday, 20 March 2020 8:32 PM To: Sean Cubitt ; nettime-l@mail.kein.org Subject: Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health Dear Sean, folks, thanks for the useful historical references. I've already gone on rec

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Yes, as a friend said to me yesterday, COVID-19 is a shot across the bow of the anthropocene. Also, as to the ultra-rich: let’s start by taking half of their wealth and go from there. Richard > On Mar 22, 2020, at 1:07 AM, Sean Cubitt wrote: > > hi all > > sorry for my poor joke about a c

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Hi all, just a quick note, Croatia has, two days ago passed a Draft of proposal of Law on Additions to the Law on Electronic Communication with the Draft of the Final Proposal of Law, including the article 104 saying: “processing of personal data should be legal if there is a need for the pro

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Am 22/03/20 um 20:33 schrieb Ana Peraica: > I can here imagine benefits in tracing victims in these unstable > times (severe weather, earthquakes for example), but also at moment > electronic monitoring of self-isolated COVID patients, not obeying > the command to quarantine, but also migrant cr

Fwd: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

> Le 22 mars 2020 à 16:58, Richard Grusin > a écrit : > > Yes, as a friend said to me yesterday, COVID-19 is a shot across the bow of > the anthropocene. Seriously? Epidemics such as this one have in all likelihood always been part of the world. Indeed, the Anthrop

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health

Hi Ana, The problem with this proposal is that it focusses on the 'processing' of personal data, when the focus should be on the 'collection' of personal data instead. There is no way to prove that data, once collected, have not been used for malicious purposes or any purposes. There is no way

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 10:25, Felix Stalder wrote: > A1, the largest mobile phone carrier, is providing data to public > authorities in an effort to monitor these restrictions (contact > tracing might come later). > What's your source on that? I'd love to read more about it ~ L # distribute

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

Felix Stalder writes: > So, is there a possibility to use this data without it turning > it into an authoritarian power grab? I think there is, under the > following guidelines: > > - Data needs to be deleted after immediate purpose of the analysis > has been achieved. The thing is these data

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

Dear Felix, I wonder if *focusing* on "mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts" is not the best way to prepare, structure, what you call in your email "the general state of emergency" - to technologically enable it to last! Yes, "simply calling for the protection of personal privacy" is

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

There is an interview in today's Corriere della Sera describing the contact-tracing app that three Italian firms are developing for the Department of Civil Protection: https://www.corriere.it/tecnologia/20_marzo_18/coronavirus-pronta-app-italiana-tracciare-contagi-cosi-possiamo-fermare-l-epidemia-

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

Dear Brian, Would I be correct if I say that I see in the last paragraphs of your email a form of fatalism! Not because you try to think - very well - the future, but because of the alternative frame that you propose: either the defense of the "autonomous individual" or the cybernetic being-in-com

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

want to try another, simpler way to ask the question: Should I be terrified to see my personal dot on a public coronamap? Or is there a world in which individual freedoms cohere for a collective good? Answering Frederic, I guess I am fatalistic about social change: far as I can see, the neolibera

Re: Should use mobile phone data to monitor public health efforts?

"Everyone should know about your mobility": wow! Okay, I'm going to take a ginger beer and to do some yoga. And think about a world in which solidarity means tracking people. Take care dear Brian, Frédéric __ On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 3:16 AM Br