circuits on the copyrightability of game rules. >>
Please cite cases. I’m not saying
you’re wrong, merely that every authority I had ever heard on the subject
said that the non-copyrightability of game rules was a copyright office
position statement which had never been tested in court. Now I’m
onna happen, or at least is statistically likely: some
company that has written some useful, desirable OGC will be out of existence
five years from now, and asking for permission or clarification will be
extremely difficult.
Martin L. Shoemaker
Microsoft MVP
e fact that you could grab the attention of a large
publisher like White Wolf then doesn't mean somebody can repeat that trick
today. It's not impossible, but a lot harder, I expect. It's just harder to
distinguish yourself today than it was then. You were there early and did
good wo
ation to give you electronic files, PERIOD. Whether they
would be wise to do so is a separate question. But if a publisher says,
"I'll give you electronic files six months after release, but not day 1,"
and someone complains, I have NO sympathy. If you want it that badly, buddy,
start
cated as OGC nor as PI is neither, even if it
appears within the same product as OGC and PI.
Martin L. Shoemaker
Microsoft MVP: Visual C#
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tablet UML: The UML tool you don't have to learn!
Now for sale at http://www.TabletUML.com!
___
t that does not mean
that PI is inherently immoral. It's a tool. Morality lies in its use, not in
its being.
Martin L. Shoemaker
Microsoft MVP: Visual C#
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tablet UML: The UML tool you don't have to learn!
Now for sale at http://www.TabletUML.com!
_
se indications as to which content which
> license applies).
Yep. Which might render this scheme legal but infeasible. The work would
essentially be the root of multiple derivation trees; and derivative-work
creators who weren't aware of the license implications would be likely to
cross-p
, our lawyer said it's OK, so we did it," is good
advice to take to YOUR lawyer and see if it applies in your case.
This list is a good place for general advice. There are a lot of experienced
people here. But for "specifically", you specifically need to talk to a
lawyer who r
Oops!
Shoulda read, not just searched.
Martin L. Shoemaker
Microsoft MVP: Visual C#
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tablet UML: The UML tool you don't have to learn!
Now for sale at http://www.TabletUML.com!
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Martin L. Shoemaker
> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 3:32 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [Ogf-l] Potation?
>
> As you said: it's not a typo, but rather an unfortu
OGL licenses. The exceptions are two pages
that look to have been translated from other languages, and I can't really
get the sense from them.
Martin L. Shoemaker
Microsoft MVP: Visual C#
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tablet UML: The UML tool you don't have to learn!
Now for sale at h
pen content PREDATED Product Identity. And no matter how it may be
stretched today, the fundamental motivation for PI was simply to allow a
non-open name to appear within open text.
One more time: Product Identity does not mean "Everything that's not OGC".
Thst has been established
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Martin L. Shoemaker
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:58 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Ogf-l] PI Spell Names
I know: bad form to reply to myself. But I forgot to mention the one
exception.
GC. But I don't
see anything close to proof that anyone is deliberately trying to hamper
reuse. Mostly, I see different business judgments on the best balance
between adding to the community and protecting investments (so you can KEEP
adding to the community). If someone is foolish enough to inten
t it in my book,
> but since I declared it Open Content, it's okay, right?"
I think there's at least one other legal effect: if you violate that clause,
you have violated not just law, but the license; and thus, you lose the
whole license (and arguably for every product you have). Th
I hate to be pedantic on this; but we all know that "PI == NOT OGC"
is a really common misconception out there. If we get sloppy on our usage
here, where some of us (not me!) have a large influence on open gaming in
general, then we'll only add to the misconception e
oint, he has no
choice AND no problem: he has to reproduce your section 15 verbatim. Then,
if he happens to reuse anything that you reused from R&R, he's covered. If
he DOESN'T reuse anything, he's just reproducing your section 15.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tablet U
ed LIMITATION on free speech -- is his
protection for that.
Inconsistent: The very page where he adamantly asserts his copyrights -- as
is his right -- is topped by a copyrighted image of Dilbert, without any
evidence of a license.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tablet UML: The UML t
> Classes II on
> > the Modern SRD page. :-)
>
> Thanks a lot ! I hadn't seen that the basic MSRD had been updated too.
>
> Guilhem, feeling s stupid for his fist post on this list
If that's the least stupid thing you post, you'll never fit in around here.
W
't think this list is the right venue. The
majority of interested game producers are NOT going to be found here.
Just the opinion of a guy who's not (yet) a game producer...
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tablet UML: The UML tool you don't have to le
... I suspect it's not
the size of the fish that counts, it's the size of the fish's wallet.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
___
Ogf-l mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Well, if that's your plan, I might suggest not announcing it on a public
list where Wizards' personnel are known to participate. You might fly under
their radar, or you might not. That's your risk to take on.
But as for why should you bother? Because the SRD rules represent a MASSIV
t to remove that line.
And you're right, they forgot to update Section 15 appropriately.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
___
Ogf-l mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of woodelf
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:59 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: 37 questions (was re: [Ogf-l] Re: Possible
> Formation of Project)
>
>
> At 13:31 -0400 8/4/03, Martin L
o one if you answer 'no' to the other. If
> you want it to be a 'yes' answer for safe compliance, it needs to be
> "Does all of your PI appear within material marked as OGC?"
I like that wording. Clearer.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
<>
NOT OGC. That would make copying the whole file
a violation of the license. The material would still be reuasble by retyping
and by going back to the original source; but anyone who wanted the indexing
and such legally would have to buy a copy.
Has anyone seen this product? I'd like to kn
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of woodelf
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:57 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: 37 questions (was re: [Ogf-l] Re: Possible
> Formation of Project)
>
>
> At 6:00 -0400 8/4/03, Martin L.
* Is it something that falls in the list of possible PI types?
* Can you demonstrate/defend ownership of the PI?
* Does the PI ever appear inside material marked as OGC?
A masterful effort, Doug!
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
___
Ogf-l mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
ywhere it appears, not in some separate
compilation"... Then your conclusion seems like the logical outcome. The
binary contains OGC and is unreadable; and the source is readable but
separate.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to
violation. If
you then post that character on a Web site, you're in violation, but I'm
not. Once you have distributed in compliance with the license, you're not
responsible for what your users do with it. (Warning: no lawyer here. But I
think th
your source there appears anyone else's OGC, or anything
derived from anyone else's OGC, then your source has to be human readable
and licensed under the OGL.
Don't blame me. I wish it wasn't like that. But that appears to be how
Wizards views it.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
___
Ogf-l mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
ould be clear indication. And I think that if you put these together, they
would allow for some nifty OGC components that would allow many software
developers to build cool tools and cool adventures on top of a common base
of components.
But what I think doesn't mean a thing in this. It
tion clause of the OGL WOULD kick in, but ONLY for my immediate
license to any sublicensors: that one PI claim would be invalid, but the
rest of the license would stand. So for instance, my PI claim on "The
Feet-apart-arms-joined-straight-out-in-front-pistol-pointed-forward-eye-line
d-up-for-t
s on this list that would never
have occurred if the license were as plain in this regard as what you just
wrote.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
___
Ogf-l mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
I suspect they make
13,200 look pretty small.
The whole Open Gaming movement is such an "Inside Baseball" sort of thing:
even where it benefits the mass market a lot, the market only sees the
results, not the inside details. And many will ignore the details, and some
will just make up
ead simply *isn't*
> "Product Identity" as far as *your* contract is concerned.
>
> Leastways, that's my interpretation.
I like that interpretation. I have no idea what a court will say, but it
makes sense to me. Thanks!
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
___
Ogf-l mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Doug Meerschaert
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:44 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Ogf-l] OGC/PI (again)
>
>
> Martin L. Shoemaker wrote:
>
> >Go! Wives are more important t
ch more messy when they have
to decide the intent behind those words.
> I hope I'm explaining my point all right, but my wife is here so I have to
> leave work (where I'm posting from).
Go! Wives are more important than gaming!
(Diving for cover after that remark...)
Martin L. Shoem
" game with IP if
> someone is going to try to jerk with the license on a dubious reading.
Ummm... There's no reason to get violent. I want you to be right, remember.
But I don't see consistency in "PI is only protected through derivation" vs.
"Trademark is protect
s
total junk -- it'll do nothing but foment legal battles over who has a PI
declaration in a short write-up they gave to their gamer
buddies.
I so much want Mike to
be wrong; but I have no legal training to support me on
this.
Martin L. Shoemaker[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool
you don't have to learn!
ectly derived
from X). But just because that makes sense to me doesn't mean it makes sense
from a contract perspective. It may be valid contract law to say that W
cannot reproduce Q1 because of the PI restrictions of X.
What an alphabet soup!
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Tabl
es, but the press release specifically refers to an SRD for a d20 System
game. The Action! SRD is an Action! System game.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
__
y gives them a
mechanism to correct the OGC under the license and thus remove the term that
was erroneously listed in OGC.
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.TabletUML.com -- The UML tool you don't have to learn!
___
Ogf-l mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
t;scrubbing" and eschewed the PI route, then when something slips past the
scrubbers like this, there's no PI protection. (In hindsight, I guess that
it would have been a lot better to scrub AND claim PI, just as a
precaution.)
Martin L. Shoemaker
[EMAIL
t makes it hard for Wizards to sue. Of course, it also
makes it hard to do certain kinds of products. But if I were making such a
product, I would trust market awareness to make the association between my
product and d20. I'd avoid giving ammo to the litigious creeps.
Martin L. Shoemaker
Martin
longer available on the WOTC website. They
> were there yesterday, but now they are missing. I can reach any
> portion of the SRD except for any page containing monsters (including
> psionic monsters)
They're up now, at http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=srd.
Martin L. Sho
like the OGL and software, the Gentleperson's
Agreement is a topic that will keep coming up for a long time to come...)
Martin L. Shoemaker
Martin L. Shoemaker Consulting, Software Design and UML Training
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.MartinLShoema
47 matches
Mail list logo
