[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/20/2005 6:40:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Moments of delirious personal satisfaction are the engines of effort.
Jack
=
MARK!
Sounds quasi-pornographic to me but I'll add it to the list anyway ;-)
(I'm glad there
You've, somehow, discovered the origin of that thought. *-]]
I hope it's everyone's 'multiple' expedience.
Jack
--- Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/20/2005 6:40:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Moments of
Moments of delirious personal satisfaction are the engines of effort.
Makes you wonder what the fuel is?
Kenneth Waller
- Original Message -
From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: AA bis
[EMAIL
In a message dated 12/20/2005 6:40:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Moments of delirious personal satisfaction are the engines of effort.
Jack
=
MARK!
Marnie aka Doe
On Dec 18, 2005, at 6:37 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
He was just driving by
with his son when he saw the scene (and almost crashed the car when he
did). He jumped out, set up his camera, found out the batteries in his
light meter were dead, guesstimated the exposure and got one shot. Any
: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: AA bis
Den 15. des. 2005 kl. 21.32 skrev William Robb:
- Original Message - From: graywolf
Subject: Re: AA bis
Copying a masters works is a good way to learn. However it takes
creativity to become a master oneself.
Copying St. Ansel
David Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Dec 18, 2005, at 6:37 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
He was just driving by
with his son when he saw the scene (and almost crashed the car when he
did). He jumped out, set up his camera, found out the batteries in his
light meter were dead, guesstimated the
I read another version of the circumstances surrounding this accidental
shot.
As I remember the story, Ansel was on the other side of the road
working on a shot of a stump. The stump wasn't revealing anything he
considered worthy of recording and he finally decided to end the
effort. He then
David Mann wrote:
On Dec 18, 2005, at 6:37 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
He was just driving by
with his son when he saw the scene (and almost crashed the car when he
did). He jumped out, set up his camera, found out the batteries in his
light meter were dead, guesstimated the exposure and
Pretty typical statement for someone who has lots of good luck, but does
not even recognize it as such.
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
Idiot Proof == Expert Proof
---
Mark Roberts wrote:
David Mann [EMAIL
The preparation was applied while spending endless hours in the
darkroom agonizing over printing Hernandez the way He saw it.
Hard to believe the time He spent printing that particular image.
Purportedly, His most sought after. In fact, one of His books
identified it as the main reasons He finally
- Original Message -
From: Jack Davis
Subject: Re: AA bis
The preparation was applied while spending endless hours in the
darkroom agonizing over printing Hernandez the way He saw it.
Hard to believe the time He spent printing that particular image.
Purportedly, His most sought
William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Jack Davis
The preparation was applied while spending endless hours in the
darkroom agonizing over printing Hernandez the way He saw it.
Hard to believe the time He spent printing that particular image.
Purportedly, His most sought after. In fact,
On Dec 17, 2005, at 4:25 AM, Pål Jensen wrote:
My point is that this goes far beyond that. These people try to
recreate the exact image. To the extent of standing in the same
tripod holes, exactly the same light; exactly the same time of day
- they even try to get the moon in exactly the
On Dec 17, 2005, at 5:05 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
What I like to remember is that moon over Hernadez
New Mexico was essentially a grab shot :)
I never liked that photo... until I saw one of AA's real prints of
it. It is incredible.
- Dave
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:15:31 +0100, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Made me duck, Lucas.
CUTE!
Must have done something differently, then: the original is everything but
cute :o)
http://www.warchild.org/Interactive_Galleries/LittlePieces/littlepices/littlepices_7.html
--
Regards,
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
And then going into the darkroom and spending countless hours trying to
create a masterrpiece that matches what Ansel created.
You seem to think the creative process ends when the shutter is tripped.
Really creative
- Original Message -
From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Besides that if you were to put your camera right there in the same spot
every day and take a photo, everyone of them would be different. Sometimes
it seems that people who are not creative get too tied up into the
Really cute!
--- Lucas Rijnders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:15:31 +0100, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Made me duck, Lucas.
CUTE!
Must have done something differently, then: the original is
everything but
cute :o)
David Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Dec 17, 2005, at 5:05 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
What I like to remember is that moon over Hernadez
New Mexico was essentially a grab shot :)
I never liked that photo... until I saw one of AA's real prints of
it. It is incredible.
I always liked the
- Original Message -
From: Pål Jensen
Subject: Re: AA bis
Well I was discussing the creative aspect of the image making process that
do indeed end when pressing the shutter release. Litterally millions have
adopted the zone system without treading in Mr. Adams tripod holes
- Original Message -
From: Pål Jensen
Subject: Re: AA bis
I know it will be different. Learning THAT could easily be achieved by
trying to reshoot one of you own (successful) images. You will learn much
more from that. Learning technique could be easily learned by not copying
David Mann wrote:
On Dec 17, 2005, at 5:05 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
What I like to remember is that moon over Hernadez
New Mexico was essentially a grab shot :)
I never liked that photo... until I saw one of AA's real prints of
it. It is incredible.
- Dave
I saw it for the first
fra: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: DagT
Subject: Re: AA bis
Copying St. Ansel is a creative challenge all by itself.
A challenge, yes, but not creative.
I was going to tell you that you are full of shit, but I think it is enough
to say that I
William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: graywolf
Copying a masters works is a good way to learn. However it takes
creativity to become a master oneself.
Copying St. Ansel is a creative challenge all by itself.
When Mike Johnston was on this list he commented on the idea of taking a
shot
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was going to tell you that you are full of shit, but I think it is
enough to say that I think you are quite wrong.
What the hell is creative in standing in another person tripod holes?
You seem to miss the point. This is
- Original Message -
From: Pål Jensen
Subject: Re: AA bis
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was going to tell you that you are full of shit, but I think it is
enough to say that I think you are quite wrong.
What the hell is creative
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: AA bis
I don't disagree that copying of the masters may be important when you are
in the process of learning a craft, but creativity is where you start to
differ, to make your own expression. Strict copying
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you knew anything about AA's working process from start to finish, you
would have shut up about five posts ago.
I know enough after owning and reading his three books the camera, the
negative and the print
This
In a message dated 12/16/2005 6:23:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What the hell is creative in standing in another person tripod holes?
You seem to miss the point. This is the equivalent of putting a piece of
transparent paper over a Picasso and trace the drawing
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To
Pal, don't be silly. A photogapher doesn't own a particular spot in
nature. A
particular place they parked their tripod. Another photographer can park
their tripod in the exact same place, but it is unlikley they will get the
exact
In a message dated 12/16/2005 7:06:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Pal, don't be silly. A photogapher doesn't own a particular spot in
nature. A
particular place they parked their tripod. Another photographer can park
their tripod in the exact same place, but it is
I would forgive someone from using the same tripod holes, especially if
accidental.
When I gaze at Yosemite Valley, I tend to put myself in an AA scene. I
look for something to happen atmospherically that will add drama.
I don't consider being shown a potential location in which I might
capture a
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2005/12/16 Fri PM 03:12:07 GMT
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: AA bis
In a message dated 12/16/2005 7:06:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Pal, don't be silly. A photogapher doesn't own a particular spot in
nature
Exactly!
Jack
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/16/2005 6:23:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What the hell is creative in standing in another person tripod holes?
You seem to miss the point. This is the equivalent of putting a piece
of
transparent
In a message dated 12/16/2005 7:18:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think someone said once
there are only seven different stories anyway.
How many different photographs?
Hehehehe. Good question.
Marnie aka Doe
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
I don't see it as the same thing at all -- tripod spot and story line.
Although boy gets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl -- if you are broad
and
inclusive enough when talking about a story line --- sure. I
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: AA bis
In a message dated 12/16/2005 7:18:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think someone said once
there are only seven different
In a message dated 12/16/2005 7:28:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My point is that this goes far beyond that. These people try to recreate the
exact image. To the extent of standing in the same tripod holes, exactly the
same light; exactly the same time of day - they
On 16/12/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed:
Although boy gets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl
Boy gets girl, boy lose girl, boy turns into girl ;-)
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
AA's process of going from scene to print
was complicated enough that anyone wanting to copy his work (in the
context of the original post) is going to show a lot of creative work to get
anywhere near what AA was doing.
BTW: In his will, Ansel Adams
Not just evil...
Cotty wrote:
On 16/12/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed:
Although boy gets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl
Boy gets girl, boy lose girl, boy turns into girl ;-)
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, it's trying to duplicate the master. Do you seriously imagine anyone
succeeded? Got a shot that looked exactly like his?
No. But that isn't the point and doesn't making the least less pathetic.
Truly creative people don't worry
PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 December 2005 14:20
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: AA bis
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was going to tell you that you are full of shit, but I
think it is
enough to say that I think you are quite wrong.
What
- Original Message -
From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This is not true. It is a very common technique for people who are
learning
to draw, and recommended in most decent books about drawing. It helps you
to
understand how the other person worked, how their arm moved, what the
pressure
On 16/12/05, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:
This is not true. It is a very common technique for people who are learning
to draw, and recommended in most decent books about drawing. It helps you to
understand how the other person worked, how their arm moved, what the
pressure was like, how it
I wish you were rich too, Cotty. Then I would name my price.
--
Cheers,
Bob
-Original Message-
From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 December 2005 22:58
To: pentax list
Subject: Re: AA bis
On 16/12/05, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:
This is not true
- Original Message -
From: Pål Jensen
Subject: Re: AA bis
My point is that this goes far beyond that. These people try to recreate
the exact image. To the extent of standing in the same tripod holes,
exactly the same light; exactly the same time of day - they even try to
get
Pål Jensen wrote:
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
I don't see it as the same thing at all -- tripod spot and story line.
Although boy gets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl -- if you are broad
and
inclusive enough when talking about a
You don't know that ... you're making an assumption, certainly painting a
generalization with a very broad brush. In any case, it can't be done.
There are too many variables even if the photographer were standing in
precisely the same spot, using the same camera, lens, and film - which s/he
Besides that if you were to put your camera right there in the same spot
every day and take a photo, everyone of them would be different.
Sometimes it seems that people who are not creative get too tied up into
the generalities of things and do not see the subtile differences that
make the
Not so, the same story has many times been done by many different
authors, especially the classics. I wonder how many versions of the
Iliad have been done? Especially, if you change names, places, and times
it must be thousands.
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
Idiot Proof == Expert
Hi,
interesting shot for Ansel Adams fans:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
follow the last link for a related story.
Bob
On 15/12/05, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:
Hi,
interesting shot for Ansel Adams fans:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
follow the last link for a related story.
Excellent, thanks Bob.
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|
A type of scene that is timeless...
Thanks,
Ronald
Bob W wrote:
Hi,
interesting shot for Ansel Adams fans:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
follow the last link for a related story.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
interesting shot for Ansel Adams fans:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
follow the last link for a related story.
Why would anyone want to copy Ansel Adams (or any other
photographer/photograph)?
Seems to me to
At 08:47 AM 12/15/2005, Pål Jensen wrote:
Why would anyone want to copy Ansel Adams (or any other
photographer/photograph)?
Seems to me to be the ultimate in creative bankrupcy...
Pål
Perhaps they had no intention of copying Ansel's creative imagery. Perhaps
they simply wanted to witness
Op Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:47:55 +0100 schreef Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
- Original Message - From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
interesting shot for Ansel Adams fans:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
follow the last link for a related story.
Why would anyone want to copy
I believe that every artist borrows from memories of past works seen.
In other words lie, steal and make it your own as tauted
(tongue-in-cheek) years ago.
Ansel's handling of blacks and contrast are very appealing and a style
I'm sure many strive to duplicate. It wouldn't surprise me if there is
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005, Jack Davis wrote:
I'm sure many strive to duplicate. It wouldn't surprise me if there is
Ansel Adams soft ware in the works that will give your work that
look with a single key stroke. I hope not!
Why? Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Kostas
On Dec 15, 2005, at 9:38 AM, Jack Davis wrote:
I believe that every artist borrows from memories of past works
seen.
In other words lie, steal and make it your own as tauted
(tongue-in-cheek) years ago.
Ansel's handling of blacks and contrast are very appealing and a style
I'm sure many
fra: Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005, Jack Davis wrote:
I'm sure many strive to duplicate. It wouldn't surprise me if there is
Ansel Adams soft ware in the works that will give your work that
look with a single key stroke. I hope not!
Why? Imitation is the
fra: Lucas Rijnders [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Op Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:47:55 +0100 schreef Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
- Original Message - From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
interesting shot for Ansel Adams fans:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
follow the last link
On 15/12/05, Pål Jensen, discombobulated, unleashed:
Why would anyone want to copy Ansel Adams (or any other
photographer/photograph)?
Seems to me to be the ultimate in creative bankrupcy...
Seems to me to be the ultimate accolade.
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places,
Copy is a big word. Being influenced by the work of others is
impossible to control.
Jack
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
fra: Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005, Jack Davis wrote:
I'm sure many strive to duplicate. It wouldn't surprise me if
there is
Ansel
Op Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:13:50 +0100 schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
fra: Lucas Rijnders [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Op Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:47:55 +0100 schreef Pål Jensen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
- Original Message - From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
interesting shot for Ansel Adams fans:
I'm not sure. To me,it's sort of like clicking a smile on everyone's
face in a family portrait.
IOW, apply degrees of your gained skill in those areas you, Don't
deprive yourself of the chance to be proud of your own, and possibly
better, version.
Moments of delirious personal satisfaction are
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: AA bis
Pure copying is just one stept away from faking it. The laws, at least in
Europe, are clear in that a new piece must add something new in addition
to a simple copy.
You guys may as well just put away your cameras
- Original Message -
From: Pål Jensen
Subject: Re: AA bis
Why would anyone want to copy Ansel Adams (or any other
photographer/photograph)?
Seems to me to be the ultimate in creative bankrupcy...
Nothing bankrupt about paying homage to the masters.
William Robb
Den 15. des. 2005 kl. 17.06 skrev William Robb:
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: AA bis
Pure copying is just one stept away from faking it. The laws, at
least in Europe, are clear in that a new piece must add something
new in addition to a simple copy
- Original Message -
From: DagT
Subject: Re: AA bis
Sure, that´s what Edison said about inventions in the 1890´s. .-)
This isn't the 1890s, boy.
William Robb
- Original Message -
From: Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why? Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Ansel Adams is dead so he is not easily flattered anymore...
Pål
- Original Message -
From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copy is a big word. Being influenced by the work of others is
impossible to control.
Theres nothing wrong with influende and inspiration. Hpwever, standing
litterally in someones tripod holes under the same (rare)
On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 06:54:12PM +0100, P?l Jensen wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copy is a big word. Being influenced by the work of others is
impossible to control.
Theres nothing wrong with influende and inspiration. Hpwever, standing
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:35:55 +0100, John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 06:54:12PM +0100, P?l Jensen wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copy is a big word. Being influenced by the work of others is
impossible to control.
Theres
Exactly. You got my point.
Jack
--- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copy is a big word. Being influenced by the work of others is
impossible to control.
Theres nothing wrong with influende and inspiration.
I'd be thrilled to learn I'd picked the same spot as Ansel!!
Jack
--- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 06:54:12PM +0100, P?l Jensen wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copy is a big word. Being influenced by the
Copying a masters works is a good way to learn. However it takes
creativity to become a master oneself.
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
Idiot Proof == Expert Proof
---
Pål Jensen wrote:
- Original Message - From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No two separate photos are exactly identical. Ideas are not
copyrightable. So if someone lost that one in court he had a idiot for
an attorney.
Someone could register a particular image as a trademark and keep you
from legally copying it or making a similar image I suppose, but he
would have
Made me duck, Lucas.
CUTE!
Jack
--- Lucas Rijnders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:35:55 +0100, John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Thu, Dec 15, 2005 at 06:54:12PM +0100, P?l Jensen wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copy
- Original Message -
From: graywolf
Subject: Re: AA bis
Copying a masters works is a good way to learn. However it takes
creativity to become a master oneself.
Copying St. Ansel is a creative challenge all by itself.
William Robb
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: AA bis
I believe that every artist borrows from memories of past
works seen.
In other words lie, steal and make it your own as tauted
(tongue-in-cheek) years ago.
Ansel's handling of blacks and contrast are very appealing
and a style I'm sure many strive
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: AA bis
I think it was Picasso who once said A good artist borrows.
A great artist steals. Picasso was the greatest of thieves
in that respect.
Not that I claim to be either good or great, but I have stood
in the footsteps of some of the great
: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 December 2005 21:30
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: AA bis
I think it was Picasso who once said A good artist borrows.
A great artist steals. Picasso was the greatest of thieves
in that respect.
Not that I claim to be either
On 15/12/05, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
You guys may as well just put away your cameras. By now, it's all been done
before.
ROTFL
Ain't that the truth.
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
Den 15. des. 2005 kl. 21.32 skrev William Robb:
- Original Message - From: graywolf
Subject: Re: AA bis
Copying a masters works is a good way to learn. However it takes
creativity to become a master oneself.
Copying St. Ansel is a creative challenge all by itself.
A challenge
It's a great learning tool to file away as a possible help in depicting
your creative work..should that happen.
Jack
--- DagT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Den 15. des. 2005 kl. 21.32 skrev William Robb:
- Original Message - From: graywolf
Subject: Re: AA bis
Copying a masters
In a message dated 12/15/2005 12:36:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Copying St. Ansel is a creative challenge all by itself.
William Robb
===
Right. There is a reason painting students sometimes copy old masters -- to
learn.
In other words, duplicating a master isn't
- Original Message -
From: DagT
Subject: Re: AA bis
Copying St. Ansel is a creative challenge all by itself.
A challenge, yes, but not creative.
I was going to tell you that you are full of shit, but I think it is enough
to say that I think you are quite wrong.
William Robb
In a message dated 12/15/2005 6:58:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Someone once asked Salvador Dali about his borrowing from other
artists.
His reply: The Divine Dali does not borrow, he STEALS!
Bob
===
Of course, Dali did not look like anyone else -- his look was
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