Kenneth Campbell wrote:
As I hope you understood, I meant no offence. "China" needs no help from
us.
I'm not sure why "China" provokes such strong feelings of
separateness/alienation.
Let's all just stay in our hermetically sealed container-states, it's
much safer.
JL
Joel Wendland wrote:
Is this particular story emblematic of the restoration of capitalism,
though? Isn't it true that this kind of event took place in pre-reform
China
-- and not necessarily to benefit the working and toiling classes? We
expect
to see it in capitalist countries, of course.
The pre-
Jonathan Lassen wrote:
When these kind of news stories - see below - appear (and we're only
hearing about this one because one of the villagers was able to get to the
internet), perhaps we should pause and look a bit closer at what's going
on. The way that these Contradictions
are either displaced
>Hi Kenneth Campbell,
Hi Jonathan Lassen!
>Who funds Monthly Review? I have no idea.
I have an idea... grin. But I love the publication, nonetheless.
>I do know a bit about China Study Group, since I work with them. The
>annual budget is about 100 dollars, which is what the website
>costs. All
Hi Kenneth Campbell,
Who funds Monthly Review? I have no idea.
I do know a bit about China Study Group, since I work with them. The
annual budget is about 100 dollars, which is what the website costs. All
the labor is volunteer.
> My guess is -- and this is prejudicial against me, not you -- that t
Thanks LP for posting the review of Hart-Landsberg and Burkett's long MR
piece. I just picked up a copy yesterday, and have been looking it over.
I've got my own little quibbles with it (not enough emphasis on rural
China, which I think is desperately important right now, they lump
pre-1976 China t
End of thread! Why can you just discuss things without getting nasty and bringing up
material from other lists?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Chris Doss wrote:
Virtually nothing was banned in the USSR.
The Washington Post
July 20, 2002 Saturday
Soviet Dissident Alexander Ginzburg Dies
BYLINE: Martin Weil, Washington Post Staff Writer
Alexander Ginzburg, 65, who was persecuted, imprisoned and exiled as a
leader of the dissident intellectu
All right, one final word and then I am outta here.
The inanity of that statement is breathtaking. I
worked for the Russia Journal for three years.
(Actually I am somewhat proud of the fact that the
eXile praised my editorials. That's pretty rare.) I
think I know how the Russian media work.
"Putin
"Putinite press" -- You quote from all kinds of
things, yourself,
Louis.
-
How does somebody who doesn't read Russian know jack
shit about the Russian press, "Putinite" are
otherwise? How lame. That's not how the Russian media
work. Anyway that's my last word on the subject.
___
I would never have read this if it hadn't been
referenced by Kenneth.
>You have stated publicly on LBO-Talk that
>censorship was not a problem in the USSR
>and that people could read whatever they
>want. You also quote liberally from the ,
>which fails to meet Rupert Murdoch's
>standards by all ac
I . . .uhhEye against IFlesh of my flesh and
Mind of my mind.Two of a kind but one won't survive.The
image is reflect in my enemy eyes and my image is reflect in his the
same time. Right here is where the end gonna start
at.Conflict . . . contact . . . call back.Fighter stand where
th
Chris Doss wrote:
>For the NYT or WP, everything bad that happens in
>China or Russia is the result of a nefarious plot
>hatched in Beijing or Moscow. For the life of me I
>can't understand why people who would be
>hypersceptical over these papers' coverage of, say,
>Venezuela cite them as impeach
LP writes:> The next time that somebody gets the impression that I see the USA as
"rotten ripe" for socialism has permission to give me 50 lashes with a
cat o'nine tails. Except for Jim Devine, that is.<
You didn't like it the last time?
Jim Devine
In a message dated 8/2/2004 4:55:52 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>I have tried to get in touch with Michael and Sabri, but I
think that the situation is so urgent that the obvious step has to be taken of
terminating the thread which started with discussion of The Mon
Marvin Gandall wrote:
societies. For Western Marxists like Louis who still see their societies as
"rotten ripe" for socialism -- and predicate their political behaviour on
that assumption -- it can be demoralizing to acknowedge that Marx may have
been a good analyst of capitalism, but wrong about i
Louis Proyect wrote:
> I recommend that you read Theodor Shanin's "Late Marx", which makes a
> convincing case that Marx rejected the notion of universal models of
> development.
I haven't read Shanin's book. But reinterpreting Marx has been the fashion
ever since the socialist revolution he fore
>>>As for whether China would be a good model for the
rest of the Third World, let the people of the Third World decide for
themselves. We don't need self-righteous academics in the West to
pronounce what is an ideologically correct model for the Third World. The
sad fact is that the West
Pieinsky wrote:
Questions for Henry from an old Maoist:
>(1) Aren't you concerned at all about the evidence of
increasing class disparities and the consequent rise of open class struggles
(workers' strikes, farmers' protests, etc.) in "Red" China? What do these
occurrences mean, in you
>The problem, unfortunately, is there has never been
anything other than a "scorched earth march to fully developed capitalist
property relations" --anywhere, ever. Therefore, the issue becomes: is such a
march historically progressive, despite the human toll? Marx, of course,
answered in th
South China Morning Post, Aug. 2
Police shoot villagers in land dispute, report says
by: Staff Reporter
Dozens of people in Shijiahe village in Zhengzhou, Henan province, were
reportedly injured yesterday when police arrested "troublemakers" who
had organised protests over land deals approved by vi
Marvin Gandall wrote:
The problem, unfortunately, is there has never been anything other than a
"scorched earth march to fully developed capitalist property
relations" --anywhere, ever. Therefore, the issue becomes: is such a march
historically progressive, despite the human toll? Marx, of course,
The problem, unfortunately, is there has never been anything other than a
"scorched earth march to fully developed capitalist property
relations" --anywhere, ever. Therefore, the issue becomes: is such a march
historically progressive, despite the human toll? Marx, of course, answered
in the affirm
Chris Doss wrote:
For the NYT or WP, everything bad that happens in
China or Russia is the result of a nefarious plot
hatched in Beijing or Moscow. For the life of me I
can't understand why people who would be
hypersceptical over these papers' coverage of, say,
Venezuela cite them as impeachable so
There are also reports of college students who jumped from
high-rise dormitory buildings in protest of the governments timid "peaceful"
policy over Taiwan independence. The suicide-protestors wanted the
government to take Taiwan for force right now and stand up to US bullying.
The report
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The first rule of politics for political leaders on
the side of the proletariat in the American Union is
that if the New York Times or Washington Post run a
story on China . . . position yourself in opposition
to it and you will be on the right side of the
polarity . .
>If any confirmation of the correctness of Marty
Hart-Landsberg and Paul Burkett's "China and Socialism" (a book-length article
in the July-August 2004 Monthly Review) was needed, you can look at the
heartrending Aug. 1, 2004 NY Times article on the suicide of Zheng
Qingming. This 18 year o
In a message dated 7/4/2004 1:13:56 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The
article itself, like those articles about 20 years ago, have a lot
ofthe old "yellow peril" theme.The Chinese economy is about as
uneven, ragged, stumbling as you can get and still be upright.
- Original Message -
From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] China and the American consumer
> A lot of this would be changed if China let the renminbi float (i.e.,
rise). The predictions at the end seem
A lot of this would be changed if China let the renminbi float (i.e., rise). The
predictions at the end seem similar to those made about Japan awhile back (e.g., in
Michael Crichton's RISING SUN) before the "Japanese miracle" popped.
jd
-Original Message-
From: PEN-L li
Hi Michael,
Land tenure is changing. After the rural reforms in the early 80s when the
communes/brigades were disbanded, rural land usufruct rights were given to
households while ownership remained in the hands of the state at the local
level.
Rural land usufruct rights are now increasingly trade
I am hearing more about natural gas than oil going up as a result of
Chinese demand. Of course, coming out of the oil shocks in the 70s, some
economists wrote that oil prices could not have much of an effect because
fuel costs were so low.
On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:01:32AM -0500, Doug Henwood w
Michael Perelman wrote:
I am reading all sorts of reports about soaring Chinese demand
pushing up commodity prices. Has anybody thought abut the extent
to which this effect undo the the beneficial effects of cheap
Chinese imports??
Commodity prices, outside oil, have almost no effect on general
i
This doesn't respond to your question but as I read of the same demand
for commodities I wonder if China is pouring dollars back out of the
country for a couple of purposes -- to hedge on commodity prices and to
lower the heat on the devaluation issue. Any thoughts?
Gene Coyle
Michael Perelman wr
Business Week suggests that a revalued currency might be a disaster for
Chinese Banks. The Chinese may be renegages (Mao might have been more
attuned to the course of Chinese "communism than we have credited him),
but I don't think that their leaders are stupid or crazy.
--
Michael Perelman
Econo
He looked from pig to man, and man to pig
(quoting from memory)
Joanna
Eubulides wrote:
Chinese Leaders Endorse Property Rights
In Break From Founding Ideals, Party Also Decides to Allow Large Land
Holdings
Elementary fallacy here:
[Far Eastern Economic Review]
...The renminbi is pegged to the dollar, so the U.S. currency's slide this
year has made Chinese exports even cheaper...
Cheaper, yes--but not against the dollar-denominated US products!
Indeed, if there is any effect at all it would be to dive
John,
Apparently, Dornan was fine with containers filled with Chinese imports
arriving daily at ports in Long Beach and Los Angeles.
Seth Sandronsky
Date:Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:29:49 -0700
From:Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: China
John and the rest of the gang, I
John and the rest of the gang, I would like to see more about this attitude. I
have heard about it, but seen nothing solid. Thanks.
John Gulick wrote:
> I think the State Department highly frowns on Chinese investment in the
> U.S., especially fixed capital investment. Remember a few years back
Eublides posted "China Told Not to Relax Yuan Limits" and asked "would any
of the China Study Group members care to comment on the below?"
Gulick sez:
Just a self-styled China watcher here, not a credentialed one. Anyway, it
seems to me that Western finance capital actually has a long-range game p
Well, they got the Rockefeller Center, didn't they? I would hope that the
Chinese would make better investment choices.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 09:12:52PM -0700, Eugene Coyle wrote:
> Didn't the Japanese try that fifteen years ago?
>
> And if my inference about the implication of your question o
Didn't the Japanese try that fifteen years ago?
And if my inference about the implication of your question on the
future of the US economy is correct -- i. e. that deflation looms -- why
should China buy assets now?
Gene Coyle
Michael Perelman wrote:
I asked before why China could not use its ex
I asked before why China could not use its excess $$$ to buy ownership in
the West? Would they fear confiscation?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ECONOMY
I wish I had more time to respond. I will on the weekend. Here are a couple
of interesting related links tho:
How Bush picked on China to win votes
http://www.chinastudygroup.org/newsarchive.php?id=2619
and
Politics, Jobs and the Yuan
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/EI18Ad02.html
Cheers,
Jonat
Much of the Asian crisis, was due to countries trying to be "modern" by
opening up their financial system. The "communist" Chinese seem to understand
capitalism better than their self-appointed capitalist tutors.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
michael at ecs
Sometimes the cry of 'free trade' is useful.
Sometimes, one has to raise the possibility of
tariffs. Sometimes, it's good that another State's
rulers peg their currency to the U.S. Dollar.
Sometimes, it's not. Sometimes, the wage-slaves of
certain countries provide 'investment opportunities'
for 'o
Eublides posted:
"Snow opens fire against China's cheap exports"
I have some new thoughts on this subject. Earlier I contended that this was
mostly hollow pre-election posturing on the part of both major political
parties, or veiled threats to keep China within the dollar
bloc. Now I am beginning
For some interesting reflections on the politics of cars and traffic, see
the books by German PDS leader Winfried Wolf. I think however only his book
"Car Mania" has been translated into English...
J.
Marty's note is exactly the sort of a discussion I would have liked to have
seen in the earlier discussions about market socialism. Rather than making
absolute statements or talking about examples where emotion runs ahead of
rationality, he offers an excellent case study.
One question I have abou
I cannot imagine that I any of my colleague could be trained well enough
to go to China and to function as such a high level in such a distant
culture.
On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 12:09:02PM -0700, Eubulides wrote:
>
> Why would you be astounded?
>
> Ian
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
Cali
I wanted to change the subject/thread from markets to China. As far as
I can tell China is increasingly gaining attention as the one major
economic development success story, and from the right and from the
left. And I wanted to get Pen thoughts about how best to understand
what is happening
- Original Message -
From: "michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> One other Chinese question: as in the Russia, much of the successful
> entrepreneurial (can you use that word to describe the
thuggery-corruption
> infested system that exists today in Russia?) drew upon the outstanding
> socialist
This article makes China sound like the USSR in slow motion.
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 06:27:13PM -0800, Ian Murray wrote:
> Workers in China Fail As Owners of Factories
> Managers, Investors Are Taking Over
>
> By Philip P. Pan
> Washington Post Foreign Service
> Wednesday, December 4, 2002; Page
At 26/11/02 08:34 +, I wrote:
is it wrong in its analysis?
presumably not by the silence.
Sorry to sound a bit sharp and not to detract from any particular post, but
I sense a left wing introspective mood, when momentous things are
happening on a world scale.
Chris Burford
London
Please try to reformat articles like this before you send them to the list
if you can.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 19:48 28/06/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >Whatever ecological reservations progressive people may have about this, it
> >is entirely understandable that a country like China needs to make a major
> >push to gain relative advantage in the world. This would release vast
> >amounts of labour power and p
The development of GM foods in China is a very mixed blessing. Companies such as
Monsanto are quite active there and may become more active as other countries
place barriers
on the development of GM seeds. The present trend towards capitalism in China
will only be
furthered. The development of her
>Whatever ecological reservations progressive people may have about this, it
>is entirely understandable that a country like China needs to make a major
>push to gain relative advantage in the world. This would release vast
>amounts of labour power and purchasing power for economic transformati
A Forward from the Marxism list.
Bello is a voice of reason from the Asian perspective.
US attitude on China is based on two phobias: fear of communism and fear of
non-white Asians.
China, Cuba , Viet Nam and North Korea are the only three communist countries left in
the world. China is partic
. . .
2. I am for managed trade, capital controls, etc. I do not have a
complete trade regime to present. . . .
Well just give us a rough idea. You
will not be graded on style points,
precision, or rhyming. Simple is fine.
I'm not interested in a blueprint for a
new WTO. I certainly don't h
Max,
Your post was truncated to be kind to you. Keeping China out of the WTO
has little to do with creating a new or improved trade regime, much less
promoting progressive politics in the U.S. or international solidarity.
And this is my reward -- more insults! I have posted your rhymes on
cultu
Given your truncation of my post and your avoidance
of my question, the slogans right now would be:
Marty Landsburg, you can't hide;
A trade regime you must decide.
or how about,
Hey hey, ho ho
Red free trade has got to go.
and then there's always
Professors'
evasions
must never be conceded.
This could be interesting. And exactly what slogans would you be shouting
as part of this group? Marty
> > But I do pledge that as head of the MTO, the headquarters will be moved
> > from Geneva to Portland, and you can all come to the first session as my
> > honored guests. Even Max. > Marty
MHL:
> Wow, I went from superficial, to head of a new world trade organization,
> to wearing safety goggles. Or at least agitating for them. It is a bumpy
> ride in the globalized world.
Now now. I did not say YOU were superficial.
Just something you said.
[mbs]
> > Since you don't want to en
Wow, I went from superficial, to head of a new world trade organization,
to wearing safety goggles. Or at least agitating for them. It is a bumpy
ride in the globalized world.
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Max Sawicky wrote:
>
> No. "This," meaning PNTR, is just a battle in an extended war.
The que
Wasn't the wine/cloth modeled on the Treaty of Metheun that Britain
imposed on Portugal, which supposedly had a fairly advanced textile
industry?
> Brad De Long wrote:
>
>
> Ricardo believed that capital was immobile, for one. And for two, his
> example countries, Britain and Portugal, and his ex
The answer is that this fight should not be made our fight. The problem
is that many progressive groups are making this a top priority. We should
be putting our energy into and mobilizing people around other issues and
struggles.
Marty
No. "This," meaning PNTR, is just a battle in an extended
>
>>No one seems to be arguing the U.S.'s trade policy can be used as
>>significant leverage to improve Chinese government treatment of its
>>own people. The argument against PNTR seems to be that it is a move
>>in a symbolic card game, an implicit approval of China's anti-human
>>policies.
>
>>> Brad De Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 05/16/00 05:10PM >
No one seems to be arguing the U.S.'s trade policy can be used as
significant leverage to improve Chinese government treatment of its
own people.
__
CB: This would be like using the Mafia's trade policy to improve the conduct o
Doug Henwood wrote:
> So is the one true
> "progressive" position on this to support PNTR/WTO entry, along with
> the Fortune 500? Seems to me this is an extremely complicated issue,
> much too complicated for a simple yes/no answer.
It isn't a complicated an issue because for "true progressi
>>> Doug Henwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 05/16/00 04:57PM >>>
The anti-China campaign gives me a serious case of the creeps - it's
right out of the long tradition of Yellow Perilism, compounded with
old-fashioned anti-Communist Red Perilism. But today's Financial
Times reports that 9 out of 10
Brad De Long wrote:
>No one seems to be arguing that PNTR will make China poor.
China's recorded some of the most spectacular growth rates in human
history without PNTR. Will PNTR accelerate them?
>No one seems to be arguing the U.S.'s trade policy can be used as
>significant leverage to impr
Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote:
>The answer is that this fight should not be made our fight. The problem
>is that many progressive groups are making this a top priority. We should
>be putting our energy into and mobilizing people around other issues and
>struggles.
I'm not sure you can do politic
>Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote:
>
>>Max previously quoted a labor publication which opposed giving China PNTR
>>based on a variety of arguments including that the country was communist,
>>that the government did not follow free market policies, that workers were
>>repressed, and that China's entranc
>The answer is that this fight should not be made our fight. The problem
>is that many progressive groups are making this a top priority. We should
>be putting our energy into and mobilizing people around other issues and
>struggles.
>
>Marty
You're right: trying to keep China poorer is not a "
The answer is that this fight should not be made our fight. The problem
is that many progressive groups are making this a top priority. We should
be putting our energy into and mobilizing people around other issues and
struggles.
Marty
On Tue, 16 May 2000, Doug Henwood wrote:
>
> The anti-Chi
It was in trouble from the start.
Lots of people on both sides are apt to trade
votes for something unrelated to the bill.
It could still go either way.
mbs
Are the repugs. trying to pry some favors from Clinton or is the China
bill really in trouble.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Departmen
I agree with your logic Doug, If the U.S. deficit with China approaches
even 100 billion I think the chances of a financial crisis for the U.S.
seems likely. But, Scott is predicting a collapse for China and a
devaluation of the Chinese currency; something rather unlikley if the
Chinese are enjoy
On Sun, 27 Feb 2000, Doug Henwood wrote:
> >My question is where does this financial crisis come from? If I
> >understand Scott's logic correctly, he is predicting a financial crisis
> >for China, much like what Mexico experienced in 1994-95.
>
> Sounds more like he's predicting a U.S. financial
Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote:
>More specifically, Scott adds that: "Following the USIT's own logic,
>assume that imports and exports continue to grow in the future at the
>rates predicted by its own model. How long would it take before the trade
>deficit narrows? . . . it will take 50 years befor
. . . But the nationalist's willful ignorance of
the impact of a trade policy on the workers of other nations clearly does
not contradict the nativist's effort to keep the "wogs" out. . . .
Neither does the Battle Hymn of the Republic.
The issue is whether one reinforces or gives
rise to the ot
Jim Devine wrote:
>My point is that Rob Scott's little article simply expressed
>sympathy for people in the US with little or no concern for those in
>China. That's a kind of nationalism, something that should be
>avoided in a rich and powerful country like the US. Maybe it's not
>nativism, b
Max writes:
>Increasingly, nativism is simply a term that
>reflects jaundice towards straight-forward
>defense of workers in the U.S., whatever
>their national origin or race. sometimes
>it comes from the right, sometimes from
>the left. This leads to confusion from
>some quarters, present compa
. . .
Also, as progressives, shouldn't our focus also be on the negative effects
of the Chinese government on its workers rather than solely on the negative
effect of the US trade deficit with China on US workers? . . .
I'm told something on the Chinese worker front is
in the works. If you said
In a missive forwarded by Max Sawicky, Rob Scott wrote:
>Despite the [Clinton] Administration's rhetoric, its own analysis suggests
>that, after China enters the WTO, the U.S. trade deficit with China will
>expand, not contract. The contradiction between the Administration's
>claims and its own
Ok, I will take your advice, and stick to my research objectives. So,
from now no more stuff to pen-l on what Blaut writes. Next I will
comment on Gratham on the agricultural rev. but not anytime soon,
as administrative-teaching jobs are piling up,
> So why do you keep responding to his missi
excellent advice.
Wojtek Sokolowski wrote:
> Sometimes silence tells more than thousand words.
>
> wojtek
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901
At 10:36 AM 10/4/99 -0700, Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
>> That's what he says! But Blaut, of course, has no serious answers to
>> the fact that China never invented a mechanical clock, so he wraps
>> his arguments in false accusations, misreadings, and emotional -
>> unscholarly - remarks about euroce
Ricardo,
Try to contain yourself. We're just trying to understand things here. You are
not in engaged in a life and death struggle with Jim Blaut here.
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
> Michael, how can you led this misreading pass;
snip
> That's what he says! But Blaut, of course, has no serious an
Rod:
Thanks for the good message. A lot of what I say is uncalled for and most
of it is ungrammatical.
Ricardo can speak for himself. He will, I am sure, tell us that he accepts
the Weberian idea of unique, pre-modern, European rationality as a fact and
as a factor. We had several pillow fights
Rod Hay:
Are you implying that Ricardo is a Weberian on some lists (H-world and WSN)
but a Marxist on Pen-L? I don't have time to dredge up his many eloquent
postings in defense of Weber's theory of unique European "rationality." He
might want to make the argument here himself.
In any event, to
the Indian Ocxean. Why would
the Japanese or the Koreans or for that matter the Chinese want to
seriously (I emphaszie that word) explore the northern Pacvific? It
wouldn't be trade expansion.
Cheers
Jim B
Subject: [PEN-L:12113] Re: Re: China
Date:01-Oct-99 at 13:29
From:INTERNET:[
Yes Jim B. you are right. It was uncalled for and completely ungrammatical.
But at the same time, Ricardo has not been pushing a Weberian line on this
list (I don't know what he does on others). As far as Weber is concerned, he
did say at one time that you misunderstood Weber. Whether that is c
in such
voyages or trade expansion, including to the
Americas from the northwest.
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: James M. Blaut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 2:26 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:12087] Re: China
Ricardo may have in the previous debate claimed that europe had some special
intellectual power, but he did not do so in the debate on this list. The
Weberian hypothesis that Jim B. keeps putting into other people's mouth is
simply a fantasy of his own making. It is not implied in any statement
than a unified state, although many
hypotheses to that effect have been thrown up.
Cheers
Jim Blaut
Subject: [PEN-L:12061] Re: China
Date:30-Sep-99 at 16:24
From:INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
TO: INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Eric Jones in the European Mir
Eric Jones in the European Miracle has a discussion of China. He argues at a
certain point an emperor put a halt to foreign contacts. That before this
Chinese sailors had made it as far as the Cape of Good Hope. China turned
isolationist and inward. Europe because it had not been unified was no
.. . .
The point is not to make a virtue of necessity: repression of independent
trade unions in China, for example, might be necessary from the point of
view of promoting economic growth there (and winning the battle of
international trade), but that doesn't mean that socialists should
apologize
>>> Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 07/21/99 02:43PM >>>
All of these societies are based on a contradiction. They are trying to
co-exist economically with a hostile capitalist world, while building a
just system. Not only do you have contradictions externally, there are
internal contradictions
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