On 28/03/2008, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 28 March 2008 14:22:32 Gabor Szabo wrote:
>
> > I think chromatic mentioned that you should use FIT for acceptance tests
> > and not for unit tests.
> > May I disagree here.
> > I think every test is a unit test. Just the size of t
On Friday 28 March 2008 14:22:32 Gabor Szabo wrote:
> I think chromatic mentioned that you should use FIT for acceptance tests
> and not for unit tests.
> May I disagree here.
> I think every test is a unit test. Just the size of the units is different.
"Unit test" has a very precise meaning in t
There were already many good answers here, let me just add my perspective
probably just repeating the previous comments.
I am not a Fit expert and I have never used that with "real" customers
but I did use
something resembling it as I think all of you have.
Occasionally I organize a "QA Day" for
# from chromatic
# on Friday 28 March 2008 11:03:
>"How do we know we've built the right thing?"
>
>If the users don't really care about that question, give them a copy
> of GNU Hello World on a nice DVD, take the money, and run.
As an internal developer, your users might *not* care but your boss
On Friday 28 March 2008 10:50:07 Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> You've told us what the developers want to do. What do the *users* want
> to do? Is there any buy-in from the users for participating in the qa?
> Do you *need* them participating in the qa (vs say participating in the
> encoding of busine
# from Ovid
# on Friday 28 March 2008 07:26:
>Those of them who have worked with FIT are also those who object to it
>the loudest. "Too painful to implement and maintain". "Too difficult
>to train users." "Too difficult to get users to participate." "Too
>little bang for the buck compared to o
--- Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> FIT is not about expressing business rules.
> That's it. That's all FIT is.
OK, but this all sidesteps one very important question: has anyone on
this list ever *really* used FIT? I'm not talking about toy examples.
I'm not talking about "I
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Gergely Brautigam
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why do I have the feeling that I'm part of a Borg cube ? :D
I don't know but I should re-read my sentences *before* I send them.
It seems my English gets worse by the hour. Sorry for that.
Gabor
Why do I have the feeling that I'm part of a Borg cube ? :D
Which is btw not a bad thing :)
-Original Message-
From: Gabor Szabo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Gergely Brautigam; Michael G Schwern; perl-qa@perl.org
Subject: Re: M
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Gabor Szabo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if it would be possible to take the existing .*Unit
> > libraries
> > of Java and .Net and
> > create some wrapper around them (or a replacement) so people with
> > exi
On 28 Mar 2008, at 07:43, Michael G Schwern wrote:
I put Test::Builder 2 up as a topic for the Oslo hackathon.
http://perl-qa.hexten.net/wiki/index.php/Oslo_QA_Hackathon_2008_:_Topics#Test
::Builder_2
Good man!
--
Andy Armstrong, Hexten
Ok, let's clear this all up.
FIT is not about expressing business rules.
FIT is a tool which allows the customer to add test cases in a way they're
comfortable with. A programmer still has to write the logic behind those
tests (called a Fixture), but it allows a customer to easily add more da
# from chromatic
# on Thursday 27 March 2008 16:53:
>> Or, is this one of those complicated things where worse is better
>> because we don't like better better than worse?
>
>I still think you're overthinking this. Think of FIT as a way for
>non-programmers to write executable specifications in s
# from Michael G Schwern
# on Friday 28 March 2008 00:30:
>> So, what is a good example of such a business rule? I posit that
>> payroll does not count because the user could more concisely write
>> the rule in a declarative form, this isn't Java, &c.
>
>I'm confused by that response. FIT is dec
I put Test::Builder 2 up as a topic for the Oslo hackathon.
http://perl-qa.hexten.net/wiki/index.php/Oslo_QA_Hackathon_2008_:_Topics#Test::Builder_2
--
E: "Would you want to maintain a 5000 line Perl program?"
d: "Why would you write a 5000 line program?"
Eric Wilhelm wrote:
On Thursday 27 March 2008 12:42:13 Eric Wilhelm wrote:
What do you need to test that your users need to drive?
Business rules.
So, what is a good example of such a business rule? I posit that
payroll does not count because the user could more concisely write the
rule in
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