On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 23:33:24 -0700, Dan Brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If there's a willingness to rename shift/unshift, why not consider
> going a bit further (and offend shell heritage) to note that pull/put
> aren't really linguistically opposed either (unlike push/pull). Why not
> rename pop
C's only virtue, IMHO, is that it's clearly the inverse of
C. But I think the spelling and aural relationship between
C, C, C, and C is clear enough to negate that.
But then, I'm a little biased.
Except that push and pull are logical opposites linguistically, but
not in standard CS parlance. coul
On Sun, Dec 05, 2004 at 02:15:51AM +0300, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
: I thought, its primary use is for closures:
:
: sub test {
: my $a=10;
: return sub { $a++ }
: }
:
: vs
: sub test {
: return sub {state $a=10; $a++ }
: }
:
: $func1 = test;
: $func2 = test;
:
: would closu
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:55:00PM -0600, Rod Adams wrote:
: Larry Wall wrote:
:
: >On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:14:17PM -0600, Rod Adams wrote:
: >: In fact, unary = imposes whitespace requirements on all ops that end in
: >=.
: >
: >Not true.
: >
: I guess not all cases. But several do in certai
Larry Wall writes:
> : But this convention provides much more accuracy than memorizing a list
> : of methods that don't automatically thread, or memorizing a list of
> : iterator methods that act on the iterator and not its current value.
>
> Except that you don't actually have to memorize a list.
Larry Wall wrote:
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:14:17PM -0600, Rod Adams wrote:
: In fact, unary = imposes whitespace requirements on all ops that end in =.
Not true.
I guess not all cases. But several do in certain situations.
$x ==<$foo>; # $x == <$foo>; $x = =<$foo>;
@x <==<$foo>; # @x <= =<$
On Saturday 04 December 2004 06:15 pm, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
> oh! that it. I've found example which could make it clear to me
>
> sub test {
>return sub {
> for 1..3 {
> state $var = 1;
> print $var++
> }
>}
> }
>
> $a = test; $a() for 1..3; print ';'
> $b = te
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:14:17PM -0600, Rod Adams wrote:
: In fact, unary = imposes whitespace requirements on all ops that end in =.
Not true.
Larry
Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:03:03 -0600, Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Okay, this rant is more about the \s<\s than \s=\s. To me, it is
easier to understand the grouping of line 1 than line 2 below:
if( $a<$b && $c<$d ) {...}
if( $a < $b && $c < $d ) {...}
In line2, my
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
Smylers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes. C is a terrible name; when teaching Perl I feel
embarrassed on introducing it.
C's only virtue, IMHO, is that it's clearly the inverse of
C. But I think the spelling and aural relationship between
C, C, C, and C is cl
Smylers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes. C is a terrible name; when teaching Perl I feel
> embarrassed on introducing it.
C's only virtue, IMHO, is that it's clearly the inverse of
C. But I think the spelling and aural relationship between
C, C, C, and C is clear enough to negate that.
But the
David Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Aren't lazy lists a funny kind of iterator? Ones that memoise their
> results. And supply an indexing method [].
As I mentioned the other day, I fail to see any material difference
between an iterator and a lazy list, except that a few operations are
allo
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 01:24:41PM -0800, Larry Wall wrote:
: I suppose we could also have
:
: for words <> {...}
: for tokens <> {...}
: for paragraphs <> {...}
: for chunks(<>, :delim(/^^===+\h*\n/)) {...}
:
: etc.
I see a problem with
for words <> {...}
since there's lik
Larry Wall wrote:
: of course, that analogy isn't going to work for "true" functions, which
: returns the same all the time, for some given set of arguments.
Oh, well, we pissed off the mathematicians long ago. :-)
At least we had the sense to call them subroutines instead of functions.
Of cour
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 11:15:14 -0800, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 10:25:49AM -0700, Luke Palmer wrote:
> : But this convention provides much more accuracy than memorizing a list
> : of methods that don't automatically thread, or memorizing a list of
> : iterator met
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 11:33:10 -0800, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:03:45PM +0300, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
: P.S.
: btw, what about
:
: my @rray;
: # i'm starting to like that "sigil is a part of name" idea :)
: for 1..10 {
: {
:push @rray, \( sta
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 11:08:38PM +0300, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:03:03 -0600, Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Okay, this rant is more about the \s<\s than \s=\s. To me, it is easier
> >to understand the grouping of line 1 than line 2 below:
> >
> >if( $a<$b &
On Dec 4, 2004, at 10:57 AM, Larry Wall wrote:
Well, I just put "is shape" because that's what the PDLers settled on,
but as far as I'm concerned linguistically, it could just be "is dim".
That would settle the "make-it-like-English" question by making it
not at all like English.
On the aesthetic h
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 11:02:38PM +0300, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
: hm. we have short and strange , for input.. (and for some reason, it
: is bracketing! there's no sense at all in it)
: ..but we have long (and even looking slightly OOish, in perl5 sense) print
: FH for output, and noone compl
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 10:25:49AM -0700, Luke Palmer wrote:
: Ashley Winters writes:
: > For several reasons, that doesn't work for me. The method conflict
: > between container methods and value methods should be obvious. What
: > should ((1|2)|(3&4)).values return?
:
: Well, there is an answer,
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:01:46AM -0700, David Green wrote:
: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry Wall) wrote:
: >S9 talk about it. We current have things like:
: >my Cat %pet is shape(Str);
: >and parameters to types are in square brackets, so it's more like:
: >m
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:03:53PM +0300, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
: hm.. consider that:
:
: perl5:
:open $fh, 'file';
:$first_line = <$fh>;
:@remaining = <$fh>;
:
: perl6:
:$fh = open 'file';
:$first_line = $fh();
:@remaining = $fh();
:
: I thought about parallels betwee
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 08:03:45PM +0300, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
: P.S.
: btw, what about
:
: my @rray;
: # i'm starting to like that "sigil is a part of name" idea :)
Too cute. But what about %ash and &unction? Or is it &ubroutine? &losure?
: for 1..10 {
: {
:push @rray,
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:03:03 -0600, Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Okay, this rant is more about the \s<\s than \s=\s. To me, it is easier
to understand the grouping of line 1 than line 2 below:
if( $a<$b && $c<$d ) {...}
if( $a < $b && $c < $d ) {...}
In line2, my mind has to stop and ask
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:03:03 -0600, Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Larry Wall wrote:
for =$*IN {...}
for =$*ARGS {...}
for = {...}
for = {...}
for =Â$foo.c $foo.h {...}
for =['foo.c', 'foo.h'] {...}
for =['.myrc', @*ARGS] {...}
for [EMAIL PROTECTED] {...}
for =<> {
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 06:38:42PM -0800, Larry Wall wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 06:43:05PM +, Herbert Snorrason wrote:
> : This whole issue kind of makes me go 'ugh'. One of the things I like
> : best about Perl is the amazing simplicity of the <> input construct.
>
> Hmm.
>
> while
Ashley Winters writes:
> For several reasons, that doesn't work for me. The method conflict
> between container methods and value methods should be obvious. What
> should ((1|2)|(3&4)).values return?
Well, there is an answer, and it's one I've never been extremely happy
with. That is, Junctions d
Added some more list-based commands.
Added upvar (alias to caller's variables), uplevel (execute code in caller's
scope). (or your caller's caller, or...)
Also added a non-standard "inline" command so you can do:
oolong:~/research/parrot/languages/tcl/examples coke$ cat inline.tcl
inline PIR {
.s
Rod Adams writes:
> Okay, this rant is more about the \s<\s than \s=\s. To me, it is easier
> to understand the grouping of line 1 than line 2 below:
>
> if( $a<$b && $c<$d ) {...}
> if( $a < $b && $c < $d ) {...}
>
> In line2, my mind has to stop and ask: is that "($a < $b) && ($c <
> $d)", or
hm.. consider that:
perl5:
open $fh, 'file';
$first_line = <$fh>;
@remaining = <$fh>;
perl6:
$fh = open 'file';
$first_line = $fh();
@remaining = $fh();
I thought about parallels between arrays and iterators, and realized that
they aren't very close to each other:
iterators are
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:25:39 -0800, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 06:31:35AM +0300, Alexey Trofimenko wrote:
:
: for 1..10_000_000 {
: my ($a,$b,$c) = ...
: ...
: }
:
: vs.
:
: for 1..10_000_000 {
: state ($a,$b,$c) = ...
: ...
: }
:
: latt
Larry Wall wrote:
So you can say
for =$*IN {...}
for =$*ARGS {...}
for = {...}
for = {...}
for =«$foo.c $foo.h» {...}
for =['foo.c', 'foo.h'] {...}
for =['.myrc', @*ARGS] {...}
for [EMAIL PROTECTED] {...}
for =<> {...}
The simplicity is nice, but the visual message is,
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 01:37:00 -0800, Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> for =$*IN {...}
> for =$*ARGS {...}
Yay. A generalised form of the input operator, which can create even
handier idioms for simple file processing. Maybe I wasn't clear
enough. My issue wasn't specifically with '.lin
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 08:59:24 -0700, David Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matt Diephouse) wrote:
> >Supposing
> >class Filehandle does Iterate; # Iterate or Iterator?
> >we have an easy way to create new iterators. I'm not sure how useful
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matt Diephouse) wrote:
>What I mean is that Perl takes an array and makes an iterator out of it.
>Sure, you probably don't think about it like that, but the behavior is
>the same (who says arrays need to iterate starting at element zero?).
I prob
Leopold Toetsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ... We can deal
> with performance implications later.
I've googled for »MMD "polymorphic inline cache"«: 1-2 of about 3 on
perl6-internals archives. You might guess the author of these mail ;)
leo
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry Wall) wrote:
>S9 talk about it. We current have things like:
>my Cat %pet is shape(Str);
>and parameters to types are in square brackets, so it's more like:
>my %pet is Hash[:shape(Str) :returns(Cat)];
I still prefer "shaped", for
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Now, there is one big gotcha here -- multimethod dispatch. I'm not
> entirely sure that we can do this properly and still give classes
> full control over how methods are looked for and where they go.
Thinking about MMD a bit more, I can imagine the follo
Howdy,
While browsing the updated synopses, I noticed a problem with how
scalar container methods are called. Currently, both value methods and
container methods are shown in the synopses as being called with
C<$foo.bar()>.
For several reasons, that doesn't work for me. The method conflict
betwee
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 06:38:42PM -0800, Larry Wall wrote:
: Might even just be a global multi sub that defaults to $*ARGS:
:
: multi sub *lines (IO ?$handle = $*ARGS) {...}
: multi sub *lines (Str $filename) {...}
: multi sub *lines (IO @handle) {...}
: multi sub *lines (Str @fil
Okay, maybe I should have gone to bed, but I kept thinking about this.
I'm starting to suspect it's time to haul out the operator I've
been holding in reserve for lo these many years now, the unary =.
Suppose we say that it iterates iterators, but also it recognizes
certain things that aren't itera
Matt Fowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for the clear explanation. I did not realize that S registers
> could switch pointers, that does make things a little harder. I have
> a recommendation for a possible hybrid solution. Incur the cost of
> spilling I,S,N registers heavily. Restore
Garrett Rooney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This patch fixes some warnings in global_setup.c and embed.c.
Thanks, applied.
leo
Sam Ruby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Test case attached.
Another one of my hacks. The combination
"KEY_integer_FLAG|KEY_number_FLAG" was invented to optimize the sequence
d = dict.fromkeys(xrange(100)) with integer keys.
> - Sam Ruby
Fixed,
leo
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 11:36:02PM -0800, Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
: Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: > So optimizing to a state variable won't necessarily help your loop
: > overhead, but it could help your subroutine overhead, at least in Perl
: > 5, if Perl 5 had state variables.
Larry Wall writes:
> But then are we willing to rename shift/unshift to pull/put?
Yes. C is a terrible name; when teaching Perl I feel
embarrassed on introducing it.
Given the nature of many of the other changes in Perl 6, completely
changing regexps for example, renaming a couple of functions
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